Do you use cables to 'tune' the sonics of your system?

Do you use cables to 'tune' the sonics of your system?


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microstrip

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Francisco will do absolutely nothing, he is all talk ! He still has a AS 2000 Pabst motor tucked away in a draw somewhere, and a excellent Forsell Air reference TT that desperately needs that motor !;)

Still not retired and building a new space, sorry!

But yes, I should sell the TechDas and put the Forsell in service. I now listen very little to vinyl, also for music preference - since a few years ago I got done with the great recordings that I enjoyed for 30 years and find great pleasure in music recorded more recently.
 
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microstrip

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i’ve slept like a baby ever since I sold my fancy power cords, though I am much less fatigued when I go to bed.

Your regular physician should be envious of David ...
 

microstrip

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microstrip

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Peter caught it that's what Lamm used to ship with LL1 not one of mine, clear plugs didn't match with Vladimir's sense of aesthetic.

david

Curiously this single cable came with your CC lot, Lamm's shipped from Vladimir could not have US power cables without CE labels in the boxes. Strictly forbidden, enough for stopping equipment at the customs for a couple of months.
 

microstrip

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Then it doesn’t match all the others that ddk sends. Perhaps it came with one of your Lamm units or some other gear, or David sent it from one of his Lamm components.

Have you compared how it sounds to one of the ones with the clear plug that is 8 feet long?

How else should I know that it sounds much better than your CC's? :)

More seriously, it was just a single cable and I just put it aside after measuring.
 

ddk

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May 18, 2013
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Curiously this single cable came with your CC lot, Lamm's shipped from Vladimir could not have US power cables without CE labels in the boxes. Strictly forbidden, enough for stopping equipment at the customs for a couple of months.
Could be one got mixed up during packing, I can always exchange it.

david
 

Lagonda

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I can't see the plug does this have a clear or black plug?

david
David, that is the cable from your pool cleaner that you have been looking for, you accidentally sent it to Francisco ! ;)
 

ddk

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David, that is the cable from your pool cleaner that you have been looking for, you accidentally sent it to Francisco ! ;)
My espressos haven’t tasted the same since losing my black CC!

I checked, he got the pair of 16 gauge CC that came with his preamp.
david
 
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PeterA

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Dec 6, 2011
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Peter, what is the point that they are no longer produced? Do you want to share this factual information with us or not?

Did you really compare these current CC or are these just guesses? manufacturers?

Fransisco, I must apologize to you. I had completely forgotten that I did a direct comparison between two new Ching Cheng power cords and my own NOS CC. I did it once at Ian's house, and then at my own house. I had forgotten because this was in May 2021, not long after I took delivery of my new system and at the beginning of sailing season when launching the boat, so I had other things on my mind.

Ian and I have a friend named Jim who is a retired electrical engineer. He is the one who contacted the US importer of Ching Cheng cables. Jim shared with the importer the model number of my NOS CC cable and the importer told him that there was a current production cable that would be very similar. After a few months, Jim was able to get some 6' and 8-9' samples. He compared the two in his system which has the exact same Pass amp, preamp and phono stage that I had driving Wilson speakers. He preferred the longer cables and sent them to Ian. As an aside, David also compared different length CC cords and preferred the longer length. My cords are 8-9' long. I use five in my system.

Ian and I first compared the new to old CCs in Ian's system. I went through some old email exchanges and it seems that Ian did not hear much difference between the NOS CC and the current model, but he did slightly prefer one model for some reasons and the other for other reasons. I did hear a more significant difference and preferred the NOS CC by quite a large margin in Ian's system.

Shortly after that, Ian then brought the new CC cables to my house for another direct comparison in my new Vitavox/Lamm system. Here is a copy of my email to Jim, copied to Ian and to David from a rather long exchange, describing what I heard. Click to expand below:


Hello Jim,

Ian came over to my place this afternoon to listen to my new system and to then join a third friend for dinner. He brought the new CC power cords that you had ordered, listened to and then sent to him. Ian had mentioned that he did not hear much difference between the new CCs and his two NOS CCs.

We first listened to my system as is currently configured with five NOS CCs and then replaced the NOS CCs with the new CCs on the dual mono preamp. We let the system stabilize and listened to two tracks: Ray Brown/Almeida, MoonLight Serenade and Beethoven’s Violin Sonata.

I heard a difference pretty quickly and the effect was apparent throughout the two recordings. We then switched back to the NOS CCs and within the first few seconds of the Violin Sonata, I knew which I preferred. All it took was hearing the timpani at the opening of the Sonata.

The new CCs made the timpani sound solid, black and small. The NOS CCs made the timpani sound hollow, set deep in the stage, full of tonal color with resonant energy that decayed beautifully. It had a nice muffled stick, sudden and sure footed, deep impact and soft. Very natural. The new CCs made the timpani sound synthetic and hard.

In the sonata, the whole feeling was grand, open, living breathing musicians playing instruments that were full of tonal color and energy. The new CCs made it sound pushed, too focused, with stark contrast. In camera terms, almost as if one punches up the sharpness meter in post processing. There was a hyper contrast and flattening of the sound. It was constricted. There was a crisper leading edge to transients. The guitar moved forward in the mix and seemed more immediate, while the stand up bass that Brown was bowing seemed to shrink and get really dense. The texture of the bow on the strings was pronounced and shouted at you. The NOS CCs had much more natural tone, especially on that stand up bass. The sound was more relaxed, less hyper and expanded into the room more naturally. There was more natural wood tone, the instrument was more hollow and it resonated longer as the energy hung in space until the instrument settled down. It was much more convincing to me.

In the Sonata, there are a few really loud passages where the orchestra builds up right before the violin makes its appearance. With the new CCs, that build up was a shouting for attention. Way too much contrast to the softer passages. With the NOS CCs, that build up grew organically, was softer and less pronounced but related to the softer music and more a part of the whole rather than something separate.

The difference was really startling for me. The new CCs reminded me of some of my old gear that highlighted frequencies, constricted dynamics, and choked the sound. The NOS CCs simply sounded natural, adding nothing and removing nothing. Of course I can’t be sure, but they sounded right.

I was hoping that I would not hear a difference so that you could order a bunch of these for your friends and people would have some alternative to David’s rapidly dwindling supply. Sadly, I would not want to use these in my system. The new system is so revealing that the differences were easily heard.

I gave the cords back to Ian and I think he will send them back to you. I appreciate the effort to which you went to get these so that the three of us could all hear them in our systems, but for me they are a failure. Perhaps Ian will add his thoughts to this email chain. I will also send a copy to David as I am sure he is curious.

Below are a couple of photos. The cables and wires are a mess but will remain so until I get my new rack and clean things up. The connectors definitely look different. They are different color and shape. The IEC end is also slightly looser fitting into the backs of the gear, which is not good. The NOS are very snug. David found a really good power cord.

Do you mind if I share the results of this experiment on my system thread on WBF? I understand if you would rather keep this information to yourself.

Have a good weekend,
Peter

And here are some further thoughts excerpted from a follow up email to Jim:

"The analogy I made for David about two cartridges applies to these two CC cords as well. One presents great nuance, applying both a feather and a whip, while the other presents everything with a hammer. Density without gradation and nuance and enhancement of some frequencies. The new CCs also homogenized the sense of space where it did not vary as much between the two recordings. Things sounded flatter with the new CCs. This too is about nuance and low level information retrieval.

I did not find the new CC to be smooth like you noted. In fact, in isolation and relative to the NOS CC, the new ones were not smooth, I find them rough sounding in my system. I wonder if this is because of our relative sources, your digital versus my vinyl. I find most digital benefits from some smoothing. In my system with the new found levels of resolution, the artifacts from these new CCs are laid bare."


Again, I am sorry that I had completely forgotten about these two comparisons. I am glad I saved the correspondence so that I could share the pertinent information here. I did in fact have direct experience with the old and new CC cables in two different systems, and unfortunately, the new cables are not a good replacement for those who want an alternative to David's NOS supply which is now basically gone.
 
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PeterA

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Dec 6, 2011
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I’ll sell my last CC for $300.

That’s the same price as a WyWires Juice cord that I prefer.

Keith, if I needed another one, I would gladly pay you $300. I already have four (4) unused spares and would buy others for a small premium, perhaps double over what people paid, but not the 15X that you are asking.
 
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tima

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Mar 3, 2014
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The new CCs made the timpani sound solid, black and small. The NOS CCs made the timpani sound hollow, set deep in the stage, full of tonal color with resonant energy that decayed beautifully. It had a nice muffled stick, sudden and sure footed, deep impact and soft. Very natural. The new CCs made the timpani sound synthetic and hard.

Fine expository writing, @PeterA.
 
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Mark38

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Jan 29, 2022
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Most definitely. It is a tool in the toolbox. Plus I enjoy having options of cables that have different presentations.
 
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