Best XLR connectors money can buy?

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DaveC

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I've simply relied on fact. Its pretty obvious that the statements in the above post are false.

Now you're just calling me a liar which has been reported to the mods. Your say fact but the truth is your accusations are indeed a personal attack. Wow and goodbye! Please put me on ignore and stop replying to anything I post.

Why you are even on this thread, why you choose to disrupt a conversation on the best XLR connectors despite your beliefs they all sound the same is both a mystery and against the TOU of this site, and your personal attacks on me are also against TOU. You are nothi8ng better or different than a cable denier disrupting a thread on cables, and it's quite pathetic.
 
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DaveC

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There is ‘Best’ Physical connection and there is ‘Best’ sonic performance , let us not conflate the two , altho the former often contributes to the latter.

Yeah, gold plated anything is best avoided despite it's excellent resistance to corrosion and contamination. For one, it's too soft and wears out too easily, but it also smears detail. Listening to all rhodium vs all gold plated connectors is a huge difference and it's really easy to hear how much resolution you're losing with gold plating.
 

Atmasphere

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Now you're just calling me a liar which has been reported to the mods. Your say fact but the truth is your accusations are indeed a personal attack. Wow and goodbye! Please put me on ignore and stop replying to anything I post.
There is a difference between calling someone a liar and showing how a post is false. Those are your words, not mine.
 

DaveC

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There is a difference between calling someone a liar and showing how a post is false. Those are your words, not mine.


Now you know what I did in HIGH SCHOOL?!?!? You have no basis to make your claims, and despite what you think you know about logic, you conflate that with actual ad hominem, or you knowingly claim you're using fact and logic to make ad hominem attacks in disguise. This is why you're intellectually dishonest. The fact you'd even enter this thread is telling as to your state of mind. You're nothing better than a cable denier.

Lol, flat earthers also think they're relying on fact and making solid arguments. :D
 

Atmasphere

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Now you know what I did in HIGH SCHOOL?!?!? You have no basis to make your claims, and despite what you think you know about logic, you conflate that with actual ad hominem, or you knowingly claim you're using fact and logic to make ad hominem attacks in disguise. This is why you're intellectually dishonest. The fact you'd even enter this thread is telling as to your state of mind. You're nothing better than a cable denier.

Lol, flat earthers also think they're relying on fact and making solid arguments. :D
Uh, how did you get from what I said above to what you did in high school??
 

Solypsa

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This discussion was interesting ( to me ) for a time. Sad it seems to be played out. We had some votes for Neutrik and some for Furutech, which is at least is a data point. @Atmasphere made some points ( with reasons ) about aes48. @DaveC wasn't happy about them ( without reasons that I noticed ).

So what is the best xlr? Screw connection and not solder? ( so far ignored ). Rhodium plated vs Gold? Measurements or tests?
 

Atmasphere

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The balanced line system has always had a low impedance aspect. In the old days the termination standard for line level was 600 Ohms; for low level signals like microphones 150 Ohms was common. These days impedances tend to be higher but compared to the typical input impedances of amps and preamps intended for home use the impedances are still quite low, such as 1K to 2KOhms.

When you have such low input impedances, the current needed to drive such loads is considerably higher than you see when input impedances are high. So now imagine that any connector has a series resistance or impedance to the signal. If the input impedance is high, the influence of the connector will be higher too. When you have a low impedance source and a low impedance input such as 600 Ohms or 2000 Ohms, the influence of a particular kind of connector pretty well goes away.

The tricky bit is that in high end audio, the input impedances are what I would call 'high' since they are all at least 10K Ohms or higher. As a result, unless steps are taken to mitigate the effects, and since there's almost nothing in the form of measurements nor much in the way of repeatable research to show what causes a certain 'sound' that a connector might have, the answers to your question are going to be mostly anecdotal and all over the map.

I prefer the Neutrik connectors because they are pretty well the standard in studio applications, they hold up well and are extremely well built. We've been using them since 1986 or so and never had to replace one. They are also easy to work with and very reasonably priced. We have of course tried other connectors but found that we couldn't make out any difference in sound, despite using equipment that is known for its transparency, perhaps above all else. So I'm convinced that if more expensive connectors really do offer an advantage, its going to be a situation similar to what is known in the radio broadcast world as 'gold plated deciBels'. In that world its all about increasing coverage which is done by increasing the transmitter power. A transmitter that can double the power costs a lot more with a slight improvement in coverage; thus the gold plated deciBels. If there really is a benefit garnered by some of the more expensive connectors, my surmise is that its minimal at best. They look nice though- people like that.

Beyond that any audiophile that relies on listening comparison only has two challenges that they always have to be aware of- that of the Veblen Effect where there is a very human perception that the more expensive the product is, the greater its value (which is often not true) and also that of simple expectation bias- and there is crossover there.

So while I have my preferences, I really don't think you're going to get a good answer beyond what has already been stated.
 

DaveC

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The balanced line system has always had a low impedance aspect. In the old days the termination standard for line level was 600 Ohms; for low level signals like microphones 150 Ohms was common. These days impedances tend to be higher but compared to the typical input impedances of amps and preamps intended for home use the impedances are still quite low, such as 1K to 2KOhms.

When you have such low input impedances, the current needed to drive such loads is considerably higher than you see when input impedances are high. So now imagine that any connector has a series resistance or impedance to the signal. If the input impedance is high, the influence of the connector will be higher too. When you have a low impedance source and a low impedance input such as 600 Ohms or 2000 Ohms, the influence of a particular kind of connector pretty well goes away.

If this was true speaker and power cables wouldn't matter either. I'm guessing you think that's the case.

Also, the influence of the connector is greater at low impedances when considering series resistance. If the series resistance of the connector is, say, 0.1 ohm, then if you have a 20k input impedance that makes. 20,000.1 ohms. If you have a 4 ohm speaker and your banana plug has 0.1 ohm series resistance, then you have 4.1 ohms, or 4.4 ohm adding up all of the bananas. But anyways, it doesn't really matter because connectors do matter quite a bit in both interconnect, speaker and power applications. They matter in any application in an audio system.

------

Anyone who looks at a part of a system that is required for it to operate and tells you it doesn't matter is generally wrong.

As far as connectors, just in general WBT and Furutech are head and shoulders above most others. Even if you think they all sound the same, a Furutech plug with rhodium plating is an investment in a part that'll last 10x as long as an average gold plated connector, and if you do believe there are differences, they sound far better than Neutrik gold plated parts. WBT platinum plated silver is the best by a small amount, but the clear plastic on the speaker connectors can seem a little cheap for how much they cost and they get dirty more quickly than Furutech rhodium. Furutech NCF AC power products also measurably reduce noise, and it's very noticeable subjectively.
 
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DaveC

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This discussion was interesting ( to me ) for a time. Sad it seems to be played out. We had some votes for Neutrik and some for Furutech, which is at least is a data point. @Atmasphere made some points ( with reasons ) about aes48. @DaveC wasn't happy about them ( without reasons that I noticed ).

So what is the best xlr? Screw connection and not solder? ( so far ignored ). Rhodium plated vs Gold? Measurements or tests?

Without reasons? Summary:

1. I DO think XLR cables make a difference in EVERY circumstance, in every system, no matter the impedance or proper implementation of AES standards. XLR plugs make a difference too.

2. Ralph's 10ft rule of thumb for max length of an RCA cable is based on the worst possible scenario, which is a 1 in 10,000 occurrence (my guess). When it does occur, is usually the result of someone DIY'ing a simple tube pre and amp without a complete understanding of this potential issue. It's based on a single triode output where the output impedance is the plate resistance of the triode. In addition, this is going into a high input impedance amp with a high miller capacitance input. In this situation Ralph is absolutely correct cable length will contribute to roll off. But in the other 9,999 systems this isn't an issue.

3. A vast majority of high end audio systems in the world today that use RCA cables, are NOT using a traditional coax cable because it's an inferior design to noise-rejecting geometry and terminating the shield at one end only. Every cable maker knows this, it's not a secret. Coax cables work and you can buy them, but they are commodity level cable, coax is very cheap.

I'm more than happy to clarify further if anyone has specific questions. But I'll repeat what i said above, in different words... all parts of the system make a difference. That's what it comes down to, and at the root of it all, it is that simple.

I apologize if I came off as hot headed, but this is beating a dead horse dressed up as something else. We've been doing it for decades now. Some people genuinely believe, for whatever reason part X in a system doesn't make a difference and they can come up with seemingly convincing arguments to defend their claims. X has been not just cables, but amps, DACs... major components! They are just ones and zeros, right? Amps of the same spec all sound the same, right? There's not one case I can think of where any of this has held up. You judge for yourselves.
 
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DMSB

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Industries, companies, technologies and manufacturing is always changing and what connector is “best” today could change tomorrow. Also, what connector is “best” in one use might not be “best” in another. I would like to give an explanation of connector attributes that anyone can use to evaluate the suitability of connectors of all types for their specific use, not just XLRs.

The first set of attributes that are important for connectors that are designed to be “hot plugged” (Such as XLRs) and are unimportant for connectors that are not inserted live.

Sequenced Contacts: Sequenced contacts are a difference between the contact mating point of some conductors, such as ground, shield, or power, which are fully mated before the signal conductors. In a properly designed XLR the female contact for pin 1 is mated before pins 2+3. This prevents the often more sensitive signal circuitry from being damaged by large parasitic currents.

Sacrificial Contact Features: In some circumstances the initial mating of the contacts in a connector causes a large current to flow before the contact resistance is low. This can create a large current flow in a small part of the contact which damages it, then the fully mated contact will not make a reliable or stable connection. Properly designed connectors will have contact features that are not integral to the performance of the fully mated connector that can be damaged sacrificially (on purpose). In XLRs this is usually accomplished with multiple contacts that are not engaged simultaneously, so that the first contact mated is damaged but the others are not, enabling a good fully mated connection.

The next set of attributes are integral to contacts that carry small signals but “may” not be necessary for contacts that carry power.

High Energy Mating: The mating contact should have a large contact pressure, sliding force or other locally highly disruptive force to clean contaminants, adsorbed liquid and gas molecules, and/or tarnish from the surface. If the energy is not sufficient the contacts will have a higher than normal resistance that will quickly drop as electrical current flows through the contact. This lowering of contact resistance will often revert if the current is reduced causing a modulation of the contact resistance based on the current flow. In XLRs this is usually accomplished by the sliding force of the connector insertion and the concentration of that force by having some “sharp” feature on the female contact which increases the local contact force. Connectors with large effective contact areas should be avoided unless the mating force is very high. For contacts carrying large currents the energy from the current itself cleans the contacts so physical energy is not necessary and large area contacts are applicable in these circumstances.

High Mated Contact pressure: The contacts should have a very high point pressure. If the mating force is to be reasonably low this means that the contact area should be small. This ensures that the contact stays stable electrically and does not allow contaminants such as gas molecules or organic compounds to intrude into the contact area.

Redundant contacts: The world is not perfect so redundancy is needed…

Stable Contact Resistance: The contact resistance itself, if low enough (lower than a few tens of milliohms for the majority of signals sent through XLRs), is not important. However that resistance should not change with time, environmental conditions or signal level.

A Low Impedance Shield: EMI is everywhere now. Without a shield you are potentially injecting large amounts of high frequency noise into circuits that may, or may not be able to deal with it gracefully. Even when the equipment can deal gracefully with this out of band noise, it will nearly always have better performance if not forced to do so. In one location or time of day the EMI may be inconsequential to performance but at another time or location it almost certainly will be. EMI is invisible to humans (without measurement equipment) so you won’t notice the change in conditions.

High quality dielectric: The contacts need to be separated by a physically robust, electrically insulating material that will hold them apart. Today this is not much of a problem and any well designed plastic dielectric will do. It does need to survive the limits of temperature the contacts will experience and be resistant to physical damage. In some applications the geometry of the dielectric, shield and contacts needs to be carefully engineered to prevent high frequency signal degradation (BNCs are one example).

The next set of attributes are needed for connectors that stay mated for long periods of time.

Non-reactive Contact Surfaces: The surface of signal contacts should be non-reactive so the mated contact properties do not vary with time and environmental changes. Gold, Platinum, and Rhodium are ideal. They are listed from lowest cost -> highest cost and smallest number of mating cycles -> largest number of mating cycles. Performance for a given contact design when mated is nearly identical for all three choices. HOWEVER, NEVER USE A CONECTOR PLATED WITH ONE METAL WITH A CONNECTOR PLATED WITH ANOTHER METAL FOR PRECISION SMALL SIGNALS. Silver is excellent for power contacts because of its extremely low contact resistance but is not ideal for signal contacts that are not exercised or cleaned regularly.

Contacts that account for movement, vibration and thermal cycling: As contacts move relative to one another in a cyclic fashion they can “fret”. This is a degradation caused by the repetitive movement of the contacts relative to one another and the microscopic scratching that occurs. One solution is to have such a large force between the contacts that they do not move relative to one another (requires very high pressure, like in a screw terminal or crimped terminal), welding (cold welding or current induced welding like in power relay contacts) or to have “floating” contacts (IE, contacts that are not rigidly connected to one of the housings). In XLRs the latter is the best method since it allows for a reasonable connector insertion force while still eliminating contact degradation.

Consistent Spring Force: For the springy contact, usually the female, the contact material should be permanently springy and not take a “set” even if a connector is mated with a male pin that is out of specification. Usually only one contact (the female) needs to be springy. Ideal materials for the springy contact are beryllium copper, tellurium copper, or various electrical bronzes that combine high electrical conductivity with high plastic yield. Pure copper, pure silver or brass should be avoided for the springy contact because the can easily “set” and fail to provide the correct contact pressure.

Power connectors have special requirements.

Low Contact Resistance: Power connectors need a very low contact resistance to avoid contacts overheating or wasting too much energy. This often means contacts that are much larger than signal contacts, have large contact areas or have silver plating, because silver offers the very lowest contact resistance. Contacts do not necessarily have a low contact resistance on initial mating, they may be designed to use the current flow to lower the contact resistance. Contacts that use current flow to lower contact resistance may just need to be solid copper, brass, or have an inexpensive tin plate because the current flow will provide the recurring energy necessary to keep the contact resistance low. Examples include electrical outlets and amplifier binding terminals. Since amplifier binding terminals carry signals of widely varying energy and it is critical for them to have a low resistance even when the signal is very small it is better for them to be plated with an inert metal and have a high pressure large area contact.

And finally attributes that are necessary for specific use cases.

Durable contact surfaces: Durable contact surfaces are necessary for connectors that are expected to have a large number of mating cycles. This means Solid Contacts, Thick Silver Plating, Thick Gold Plating, Thick Platinum Plating or Medium to Thick Rhodium Plating. A smooth surface on the larger area contact (usually the male) is also advantageous to limit wear.

Environmental Protection: Connectors that are intended to work well in their environment should take that environment into account. Examples include circumferential spring finger shield contacts to limit EMI interference, Gasket sealing for connectors used in wet locations, durable housings for connectors expected to withstand physical damage (XLRs are in this class), and cable strain reliefs for frequently moved connectors and cables (XLRs as well).
 

whistleraudio

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We used a lot of Oyaide Focus XLR connectors before we produced our own. The Oyaide connectors are really nice. The mechanics are second to none, but they must be soldered.
 
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Atmasphere

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If this was true speaker and power cables wouldn't matter either. I'm guessing you think that's the case.

Also, the influence of the connector is greater at low impedances when considering series resistance. If the series resistance of the connector is, say, 0.1 ohm, then if you have a 20k input impedance that makes. 20,000.1 ohms. If you have a 4 ohm speaker and your banana plug has 0.1 ohm series resistance, then you have 4.1 ohms, or 4.4 ohm adding up all of the bananas. But anyways, it doesn't really matter because connectors do matter quite a bit in both interconnect, speaker and power applications. They matter in any application in an audio system.

------

Anyone who looks at a part of a system that is required for it to operate and tells you it doesn't matter is generally wrong.

As far as connectors, just in general WBT and Furutech are head and shoulders above most others. Even if you think they all sound the same, a Furutech plug with rhodium plating is an investment in a part that'll last 10x as long as an average gold plated connector, and if you do believe there are differences, they sound far better than Neutrik gold plated parts. WBT platinum plated silver is the best by a small amount, but the clear plastic on the speaker connectors can seem a little cheap for how much they cost and they get dirty more quickly than Furutech rhodium. Furutech NCF AC power products also measurably reduce noise, and it's very noticeable subjectively.
What I posted is true.
Your surmise about what I think about speaker cables and power cables is incorrect. The effect of either can be easily measured if you sort out how to do it. For example I've seen power cords rob an amplifier of nearly 40 Watts; its pretty hard to argue that won't have an effect on how it sounds.
 

DaveC

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What I posted is true.
Your surmise about what I think about speaker cables and power cables is incorrect. The effect of either can be easily measured if you sort out how to do it. For example I've seen power cords rob an amplifier of nearly 40 Watts; its pretty hard to argue that won't have an effect on how it sounds.

Right, so in exactly what context do you believe they make a difference? Only when they are broken or completely unsuited for the job? I suppose I should have made the assumption that we're talking about cables that are properly designed and adequate for the purpose, but you assume otherwise simply so you can say that I'm wrong, which is a continuing theme in this unfortunate exchange. It's why I've accused you of intellectual dishonesty and moving goalposts, and accusing me of logical fallacies by assuming I mean something different than what I mean, twisting my words and what I intend and taking what I've said out of context. That's what I mean by your intellectual dishonesty and the fact you are making arguments in bad faith. This is yet another example.

I can say with certainly that on more than one occasion you've attended an audio show with a cable co as a partner, and you've put their power cable with info next to your amp, yet not plugged in. Instead, you use a generic commodity level power cord and you've done so in a way to make it very obvious to everyone that the power cable being promoted in the show is actually not being used, and instead this commodity level PC is being used. I also assume you've taken money from the cable co in question. I say this as an example to show that your attitude towards the subject, as well as your state of mind. You made a big show of not using this "audiophile" power cable. It's a form of ridicule and is a horrible insult to the cable maker that paid to have his cable promoted. You show the same kind of attitude here.

What you posted about low impedance making connector differences irrelevant is absolutely not true, and you have the effect of series resistance wrong too. I'm not sure how much more wrong you can possible be, most everything you've posted here is either very misleading or downright false, and you support your position with bad faith arguments.
 

Atmasphere

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Right, so in exactly what context do you believe they make a difference? Only when they are broken or completely unsuited for the job? I suppose I should have made the assumption that we're talking about cables that are properly designed and adequate for the purpose, but you assume otherwise simply so you can say that I'm wrong, which is a continuing theme in this unfortunate exchange. It's why I've accused you of intellectual dishonesty and moving goalposts, and accusing me of logical fallacies by assuming I mean something different than what I mean, twisting my words and what I intend and taking what I've said out of context. That's what I mean by your intellectual dishonesty and the fact you are making arguments in bad faith. This is yet another example.


[/QUOTE]
Define 'they' in the first sentence. It might help you to know that I tend to be very literal so you have to be specific. Don't make assumptions about what I assume BTW- its already gotten you into trouble.
I can say with certainly that on more than one occasion you've attended an audio show with a cable co as a partner, and you've put their power cable with info next to your amp, yet not plugged in. Instead, you use a generic commodity level power cord and you've done so in a way to make it very obvious to everyone that the power cable being promoted in the show is actually not being used, and instead this commodity level PC is being used. I also assume you've taken money from the cable co in question. I say this as an example to show that your attitude towards the subject, as well as your state of mind. You made a big show of not using this "audiophile" power cable. It's a form of ridicule and is a horrible insult to the cable maker that paid to have his cable promoted. You show the same kind of attitude here.
[/QUOTE]
This statement is false- this didn't happen. I've been happy to show with cable manufacturers and happy to use their power cords. I suspect you are talking about someone else.
What you posted about low impedance making connector differences irrelevant is absolutely not true, and you have the effect of series resistance wrong too. I'm not sure how much more wrong you can possible be, most everything you've posted here is either very misleading or downright false, and you support your position with bad faith arguments.
What I posted about that is correct and is easily demonstrated; easily duplicated if you have the right equipment.
 

DaveC

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Define 'they' in the first sentence. It might help you to know that I tend to be very literal so you have to be specific. Don't make assumptions about what I assume BTW- its already gotten you into trouble.

This statement is false- this didn't happen. I've been happy to show with cable manufacturers and happy to use their power cords. I suspect you are talking about someone else.

What I posted about that is correct and is easily demonstrated; easily duplicated if you have the right equipment.



They: speaker and power cables. Seriously? I've only gotten into trouble in your imagination. Just like the logical fallacies and strawmen you accuse me of are also just in your imagination.

It absolutely did happen. I remember it vividly. RMAF w/ Classic Audio Loudspeakers. It was a really horrible display of ridicule and disparagement. I felt really bad for the cable company. I feel similarly bad for the people reading this thread and thinking you're right about any claims you've made.

And no, you are absolutely wrong about both impedance and connector audibility as well as series resistance vs impedance.
 

Atmasphere

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They: speaker and power cables. Seriously? I've only gotten into trouble in your imagination. Just like the logical fallacies and strawmen you accuse me of are also just in your imagination.
If connectors heat up in a power cord its because there is a voltage drop across them. This means the equipment using that power will be affected.
Please cease and desist with the personal attacks.
It absolutely did happen. I remember it vividly. RMAF w/ Classic Audio Loudspeakers. It was a really horrible display of ridicule and disparagement. I felt really bad for the cable company. I feel similarly bad for the people reading this thread and thinking you're right about any claims you've made.

And no, you are absolutely wrong about both impedance and connector audibility as well as series resistance vs impedance.
Nope. Didn't happen. Jim Aud is a good friend. Your impression, whatever it was, is mistaken. Neither John, Jim or myself would have had it any other way.

I can demonstrate easily enough what I've said about XLR interconnects and cables. I've done it plenty of times in the past.
 

DaveC

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If connectors heat up in a power cord its because there is a voltage drop across them. This means the equipment using that power will be affected.
Please cease and desist with the personal attacks.

Nope. Didn't happen. Jim Aud is a good friend. Your impression, whatever it was, is mistaken. Neither John, Jim or myself would have had it any other way.

I can demonstrate easily enough what I've said about XLR interconnects and cables. I've done it plenty of times in the past.


Connectors heating up? :eek: Thanks for confirming my assumption. Yet another wild claim based on a fringe case that almost never happens.

The personal attacks are all in your imagination too.

Maybe you are the one not remembering correctly. I saw what I saw at RMAF, I thought it was horrible and it's stuck with me. You did it.
 

Atmasphere

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Without reasons? Summary:

1. I DO think XLR cables make a difference in EVERY circumstance, in every system, no matter the impedance or proper implementation of AES standards. XLR plugs make a difference too.
Thinking is very different from actually knowing. There's a difference- that of belief vs knowledge. My recommendation is to get actual equipment that supports the balanced line standards and see for yourself.
2. Ralph's 10ft rule of thumb for max length of an RCA cable is based on the worst possible scenario, which is a 1 in 10,000 occurrence (my guess). When it does occur, is usually the result of someone DIY'ing a simple tube pre and amp without a complete understanding of this potential issue. It's based on a single triode output where the output impedance is the plate resistance of the triode. In addition, this is going into a high input impedance amp with a high miller capacitance input. In this situation Ralph is absolutely correct cable length will contribute to roll off. But in the other 9,999 systems this isn't an issue.
Ah. Finally we see an acceptance of that '10 feet is safe' rule of thumb.
3. A vast majority of high end audio systems in the world today that use RCA cables, are NOT using a traditional coax cable because it's an inferior design to noise-rejecting geometry and terminating the shield at one end only. Every cable maker knows this, it's not a secret. Coax cables work and you can buy them, but they are commodity level cable, coax is very cheap.
'Commodity level cable' is the vast majority of RCA cables in use today.
I'm more than happy to clarify further if anyone has specific questions. But I'll repeat what i said above, in different words... all parts of the system make a difference. That's what it comes down to, and at the root of it all, it is that simple.

I apologize if I came off as hot headed, but this is beating a dead horse dressed up as something else. We've been doing it for decades now. Some people genuinely believe, for whatever reason part X in a system doesn't make a difference and they can come up with seemingly convincing arguments to defend their claims. X has been not just cables, but amps, DACs... major components! They are just ones and zeros, right? Amps of the same spec all sound the same, right? There's not one case I can think of where any of this has held up. You judge for yourselves.
This is conflating a lot of things together, rendering this bit false. I've been very open about my experience that cables can make a difference, let alone other components.
 

DaveC

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Thinking is very different from actually knowing. There's a difference- that of belief vs knowledge. My recommendation is to get actual equipment that supports the balanced line standards and see for yourself.

Ah. Finally we see an acceptance of that '10 feet is safe' rule of thumb.

'Commodity level cable' is the vast majority of RCA cables in use today.

This is conflating a lot of things together, rendering this bit false. I've been very open about my experience that cables can make a difference, let alone other components.

You're really embarrassing yourself. :p

I have work to get done, goodbye.
 

Atmasphere

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Connectors heating up? :eek: Thanks for confirming my assumption. Yet another wild claim based on a fringe case that almost never happens.

The personal attacks are all in your imagination too.

Maybe you are the one not remembering correctly. I saw what I saw at RMAF, I thought it was horrible and it's stuck with me. You did it.
And all of the above is false. Please stop gaslighting me.
 
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Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing