It Was Inevitable…

[ddk]

I do not disagree. I simply am supporting the intellectual principle that on a subjective review website if we haven't heard the component then we just don't know for sure, and that hyperbolic marketing copy (which in this case admittedly reads with a bit of the feel of a Nigerian email scam) might actually somehow be accurate.

Actually the press release isn’t particularly hyperbolic IMO, and given the subject it’s relatively factual and informative. My comments regarding price is based on their manufacturing information.

If you want to call WBF a review website is fine, we’re reviewing the insanity or for some value of $35k power-cords and $55k/meter cables. Personal swipes and glass houses aside it’s actually informative to understand what this hobby will tolerate.

david

 

[spiritofmusic]

I've always wondered about the type of customer who has $2m burning a hole in his large pocket, and can stretch to any of the well-publicized uber systems out there. Does he really need $2.5m in effect? And thus this loom of gold bling is just one of a handful purporting to be the cables of choice of this customer, the one who has no issue spending $2m or $2.5m on a system. Bling REALLY brings home the bacon here.

 

[morricab]

I’m holding out for Odin Platinum next year.

I am wondering when they will use the stuff from Captain America’s shield...that stuff is completely immune to vibration!

 

[morricab]

That material is gold*."

* And not just any gold. It is Odin Gold - taken from chalices and sacrementals plundered from the remote Lindisfarne Abbey in 793 A.D. by daring Norse Raiders. Odin Gold - Cable of the Gods.

Maybe they will have a Thor version that will be made from the metal in Thor’s hammer...only problem is that no one can lift them to hook them up!

 

[Bobvin]

I can’t resist… isn’t ‘skin effect’ something often discussed in describing cables and the effects of construction methods? Wouldn’t plating something with .0001” layer alter the skin effect, pollute it, cause a disruption at the boundary? Maybe it sounds better, but how do you reconcile that with prior arguments about skin effect? (Sorry, sometimes the analytical side of my brain demands to be heard!)

All that said, for the $$ I’d at least expect an alloy containing gold — and a lot of it, so if the world collapses I could melt down my cables to buy dinner.

 

[wil]

Ron, it’s not just the price. People are also commenting on the marketing mumbo jumbo and trying to figure out what it means.

We can already surmise what the reviews will say. And this website is about what is best, not what is most expensive, thou some equate the two. My cables are what ddk thinks sound best with this gear. They are all dirt cheap but now most of them are quite difficult to get.

We read and comment about this stuff because this site is used for launching products and marketing. These announcements are made before the public and reviewers have heard or even seen the stuff. If there were no comments on a discussion forum, these product launches would not be so effective. WBF and other sites create the buzz which is often needed.

These new gold Nordost cables may be really nice sounding cables. And they've definitely put a lot of attention into how they look. That's beside the point. Though they have some company with other audiophile bling marketed products, I thought this one stood out with it's unrestrained celebration of "Gold here, Gold there, Gold everywhere!"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is the only difference between the Odin 2 and the Odin Gold that they went to town with the electroplater? And raised the price many thousands? I understand gold plating can give a warmer sound which may be a good thing in some systems. Why don't they just say that instead of letting some ad writer go off the deep end? Yes, I know the answer: many thousands of dollars.

 

[morricab]

People like to say 10% better 100% more expensive. The same is true for audio equipment.

Today I listened to Odin Gold speaker and interconnect cables in dealer showroom, took home a power cable to replace the Odin 2 in my Constellation Altair II preamp. Oh, the improvement is not subtle.

As expected, Odin Gold has a warmer sound. Gold plate usually gives warmer sound. The imaging and dynamics are also significantly improved. I would say Odin Gold enhances the well known advantages of Odin 2 and corrects its short coming. The overall result is very pleasing.

It is at least 20-30% better than Odin 2. The purchase price is around 40% more expensive. I think it is reasonable. I plan to replace most of my Odin 2 cables with Gold in the near future.

That the Odin 2 had any flaw at their price is to me a bit shocking...why would anyone spend that kind of money on a cable that could be called “bright”?

 

[Ron Resnick]

I have absolutely no dog in this hunt. I am a repeatedly-declared skeptic of extremely expensive cables. I am going to hatch my system initially with Mogami cables. That tells you most of what there is to know about my personal perception of the sound quality/value proposition of extremely expensive cables.

I am posting on this thread only in an effort to keep the conversation from running off the rails.

The possible intellectual disingenuousness of the criticism of the prices of these cables derives from the history that, previously, far less expensive cables were mocked and ridiculed in precisely the same way. Now, however, members here have purchased those cables at prices which previously were mocked and ridiculed, and, in some cases, have bought increasingly expensive later generations thereof.

I acknowledge that the members who have always mocked and ridiculed expensive cables were not the ones who ended up purchasing expensive cables. But I agree with Mike's original point that the sanctimony is selective, and resonates with an Audiogon-esque tone.

David is an expert on metallurgy and jewelry manufacturing and metal machining and audio component manufacturing. He is uniquely qualified to opine on the likely manufacturing cost of gold plating copper wires. So I very fully appreciate David's point that, as a matter of manufacturing cost, there is no way remotely to justify the prices asked for the cables on the basis of the gold plating of copper conductors.

 

[asindc]

This discussion reminds me that what is considered worthy of ridicule in this hobby is relative. Even before Nordost Odin Gold was announced, many audiophiles have ridiculed the prices of some of gear owned by WBT members. Most of that ridicule takes place on forums such as audiokarma. Just replace Odin Gold with Wireworld Gold (which I own), for example, and you might as well be reading from the same script if some commenters have their say. I won’t be buying Odin Gold but I don’t begrudge Nordost for offering products that only a few might be interested in buying. C‘est la vie.

I will say that if any of their objective claims (such as the amount of gold plating or the quality of the gold) prove to be false, Nordost will deserve all the criticism they receive for it.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Roy Gregory's forthcoming review writes itself, he doesn't even need to type out the words. The sentences have no end, the paragraphs stretch into infinity. Punctuation marks will be as rare as Bigfoot.

 

[RogerD]

There were others before them, blame goes to People buying into this.
david

Walter Fields of NBS was one of the first. I purchased a set of his Master cables in 1990....for the cost of my first born iirc...lol

 

[wil]

I will say that if any of their objective claims (such as the amount of gold plating or the quality of the gold) prove to be false, Nordost will deserve all the criticism they receive for it.

Nowhere in Nordost's marketing of Odin Gold can I find claims of the thickness of the electro-plating of their conductors. With the cost of these cables, you would think the consumer would want to know the thickness of the much ballyhooed gold in Odin Gold. But rest assured any gold electroplating is thin beyond comprehension. Gold plating is measured in microns (a millionth of a meter). The gold plating, regardless of the number of microns thick, is probably one of the least expensive materials in their cables.

 

[PeterA]

Ddk made a very interesting comment earlier and it was from the point of view of a designer and manufacturer. These products are interesting because they indicate how much the market will bare. That is interesting information for anyone who is selling this stuff.

I think we would be surprised by how many Wilson WAMMs and Air Force zeros have been sold.

 

[RogerD]

In a quadrillion world $35k a.meter+ cable is cheap..reality.

 

[frd]

I have one Odin 2 pc (main pc, others pc’s are tyr2), before that I had an Odin 1. This is no pocket money for me. I chose them after careful home audition. I find it has a significant contribution to the sound. I’m happy. With Odin gold, I hope they’ve achieved a new reference (and from press release it seems they have done more than gold plating at least for the loudspeakers cables)

What really bewilders me is the order of magnitude of price increases : Odin gold price tag almost doubles versus Odin 2, and 4 times versus Odin 1 (which was already rocket sky to begin with)

Sadly, as largely discussed, they follow (or lead, whatever) the trend in high end hifi. See the increase prices of new lines of Kronos, or Nagra, or CH Precision, or Transparent, or it seems every renowned brand ! It kinda s**** for the passionates who seek for the best.

 

[tima]

Maybe they will have a Thor version that will be made from the metal in Thor’s hammer...only problem is that no one can lift them to hook them up!

Odin can.

 

[tima]

The possible intellectual disingenuousness of the criticism of the prices of these cables derives from the history that, previously, far less expensive cables were mocked and ridiculed in precisely the same way. Now, however, members here have purchased those cables at prices which previously were mocked and ridiculed, and, in some cases, have bought increasingly expensive later generations thereof.

I acknowledge that the members who have always mocked and ridiculed expensive cables were not the ones who ended up purchasing expensive cables. But I agree with Mike's original point that the sanctimony is selective, and resonates with an Audiogon-esque tone.

I parsed my way through this finger-wagging philippic, but I still fall short of its target. Which group is it that is responsible for the ron-crimes of "possible intellectual disengenuousness" and "selective sanctimony" ?

 

[Ron Resnick]

I parsed my way through this finger-wagging philippic, but I still fall short of its target. Which group is it that is responsible for the ron-crimes of "possible intellectual disengenuousness" and "selective sanctimony" ?

I alleged no violation of any criminal law.

 

[TLi]

My original set of cables was mostly Odin. A few years ago, when Nordost launched Odin 2, the improvements in sound quality were very obvious, I remember the shock quite well. The price increase from Odin to Odin 2 was significant but I still changed the whole set of cables to Odin 2. The base materials used were the same for the two, they were silver plated copper connector but the result was quite different.

History just repeats itself. The main difference between Odin 2 and Odin Gold may be the gold plating but that is not all. Nordost maintains to improve on their formula of cable manufacturing through continuous research and development. One can question its pricing strategy but the market will take care of it. More discounts will be made available if the market response is poor but from what I have heard, the response will not be bad.

 

[sujay]

I fail to understand how Nordost is any different from any other company that chooses to sell their USB cable for 10k or an amplifier company that prices it’s monobloc for 150k........surely can’t be attributable to manufacturing cost. One doesn’t need to be a metallurgist or an electrical engineer to figure that. This is by no means new knowledge.
PS: I have nary a dog in this fight nor very expensive cables to boot.