Ron's Speaker, Turntable, Power and Room Treatment Upgrades

[Mike Lavigne]

I appreciate a lot the convenience and look of the Studer A820. But addressing just the sound quality and tape handling for playback a well cared A80 is equivalent to an A820.

debatable, and certainly not in my personal experience.

And much cheaper and easier to service ... ....................

agree......if you start out with the right A80.

 

[Tango]

I appreciate a lot the convenience and look of the Studer A820. But addressing just the sound quality and tape handling for playback a well cared A80 is equivalent to an A820. And much cheaper and easier to service ...

This is pretty much what Nick told me too. A80 deleted out many features of A820 that are not really necessary, but for playback it is a tough machine, excellent transport and just as good as the A820 sonicly. However, the A820 is a really an over the top design and built. Open it up and it just looks amazing.



Kind regards,
Tang

 

[Mike Lavigne]

the A-80 was produced from 1970 to 1988. the A-820 was introduced in 1984. so the A80 was not a leaned down version of the A820. the A820 is a descendant of the A80.

 

[Ron Resnick]

This may very well be a completely invalid post-hoc rationalization but I kind of feel there is a slight “economy of scale” -- at least psychologically -- in having only one type of complex, 30 year old machine for which only one[/I technical service expert is required. For me that is a fellow in Los Angeles, and he refuses to touch any Studer that is not an A820.

(Of course such a service relationship is not needed for a brand new machine such is the UHA Ultima 2 or the Sonorous ATR-10.)

A820 versus A80 ease of repair seems to me like a "Ford versus Chevy" debate. While I do believe the A820 is the ultimate advancement in open reel tape machines, I am sure A80 devotees can find a technician who prefers the A80 to match every technician who prefers the A820 proffered by A820 devotees.

 

[Bruce B]

I appreciate a lot the convenience and look of the Studer A820. But addressing just the sound quality and tape handling for playback a well cared A80 is equivalent to an A820. And much cheaper and easier to service ...

I totally agree. I HAVE had 3 A820 machines in here and could detect no difference in sound/tape handling from my A80RC MkII machines.

Fred Thal chooses the A80 as his all out assault on tape playback!

The A820 was built for Post Production/Broadcast and we just do not need those extra features that come with it. Adding to that, all the logic circuits that can go bad and you have a nightmare waiting to happen, just ask Ki. He worked on one for almost a year to get it back to "normal". That's a non-starter in my book.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ron, maybe I’ve missed it, but why are you getting a second tape machine?

 

[Ron Resnick]

microstrip: I have not yet received any measurement information from Bonnie.

Bonnie has proposed one wall structure treatment for the wood frame sections and a different wall structure treatment for the cinder block sections.


on the wood frame sections:

-- 1/2" plywood over

-- 1/4" Hardiebacker over

-- 5/32" NoiseOut2 vinyl over

-- 1" wood "fur-out" left empty(air only) over the wood framing filled with blue jeans insulation​

on the cinder block sections

-- 3/4" plywood over

-- 5/32" NoiseOut2 vinyl over

-- 1" wood "fur-out" filled with two layers of 3/8" SoundSense Acoustic Thermal Insulation ("ATI") (insulation over a layer of foil) applied directly to the cinder block​

This week I asked Bonnie to evaluate the efficacy of the above proposed wall structure treatment compared to an alternative and uniform wall structure treatment I am proposing for both the wood frame sections and the cinder block sections:

-- 3/4” walnut veneer engineered flooring planks with a 10mm layer of natural hardwood walnut (10mm of hardwood walnut veneer on flooring planks is thicker than the thin layer of wood veneer on typical 4’ x 8’ sheets of plywood veneer) over

-- 5/32” NoiseOut2 vinyl over

-- 1" wood "fur-out" filled with two layers of ATI over

-- 1/2” Hardiebacker​

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron, maybe I’ve missed it, but why are you getting a second tape machine?

1) I hope to get deeper into the tape club. In general, I just think tape sounds amazing.

2) I have learned the potential value of being able to dub from one machine to another.

3) I saw again the amazingly gentle way the A820 handles tape. That is reassuring for tapes that cost $450 per reel and up!

4) I have ordered a lot of tapes from Leslie Brooks over the last couple of years. I also ordered three of Chad's tapes, and I am sure I will order more as his library grows.

5) I really expect that more than a third of my listening will be to tape. I would not be surprised if, over time, I listen 60% to LP and 40% to tape, or maybe even half and half. Since my musical knowledge and interests are pretty limited (I have maybe 10 favorite classical pieces and maybe 10 favorite jazz pieces) I already have a fair fraction of my favorite classical and jazz music on tape. I even have some of my favorite 1970s and 1980s rock and pop stuff on tape already.

6) The first A820 Mk. II (black trim) I bought is, I think (i.e., I hope), in truly mint condition and I will not modify or adulterate it in any way. With the second machine I would have the flexibility in the future to modify it: maybe a direct head out modification; maybe removal of all record-related electronics to simplify things and maximize repro-only audio quality; maybe removal of the record head and re-positioning of the playback head in the record head position; maybe replacement of the playback head with a roller to minimize tape wear; maybe replacement of the playback head with a new Flux Magnetics head; etc.


PS: Since working A820s and Greg's top-of-the-line UHA deck cost a fraction of even the middle-tier models of LP playback systems (turntable + tonearm + cartridge) I am puzzled why people are surprised about spending money on tape machines, and even multiple tape machines. I could buy as well a UHA Ultima 2 with OPS and a Sonorous ATR-10 and all four machines together would come in for less than a TechDAS Air Force 1 Premium + tonearm + cartridge.

 

[microstrip]

(...) PS: Since working A820s and Greg's top-of-the-line UHA deck cost a fraction of even the middle-tier models of LP playback systems (turntable + tonearm + cartridge) I am puzzled why people are surprised about spending money on tape machines, and even multiple tape machines.

Most people are driven mainly by music preference, not by media preference. And A80 Studer owners do not need to have multiple tape machines - we just have several headblocks - they are easily available at eBay.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ron, I know this is What’s Best, but for me it also has to be What’s Best Practically.

With tapes at $450, and 3/4 of titles I like being 2-tapes, ie pushing $900, it’s just not practical for me.

Especially when the informed opinion I had was that as a rule of thumb, maybe 25% of tapes are beyond stellar (slaying the lp), 25% somewhat better than lp (but only moderately so), 25% on a par, 25% actually worse than the lp equivalent.

At the prices of tape, that’s too much of a Crapshoot for me.

But I’m not you (lucky for Tinka LOL).

 

[bonzo75]

Most people are driven mainly by music preference, not by media preference. And A80 Studer owners do not need to have multiple tape machines - we just have several headblocks - they are easily available at eBay.

Why do non A80 owners need multiple tape machines as opposed to A80

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron, I know this is What’s Best, but for me it also has to be What’s Best Practically.

With tapes at $450, and 3/4 of titles I like being 2-tapes, ie pushing $900, it’s just not practical for me.

Especially when the informed opinion I had was that as a rule of thumb, maybe 25% of tapes are beyond stellar (slaying the lp), 25% somewhat better than lp (but only moderately so), 25% on a par, 25% actually worse than the lp equivalent.

At the prices of tape, that’s too much of a Crapshoot for me.

But I’m not you (lucky for Tinka LOL).

Marc, I am sorry but I am confused by your post. Is there a question in there somewhere?

I wrote above why, in my idiosyncratic circumstance and with my particular narrow musical interests, tape makes sense for me. I never suggested it makes sense for you.

I know where your "informed opinion" 25% analysis comes from (you told me a couple of years ago) but you are basing your whole opinion about tape on that one guy's opinion. Except as compared to some single-sided, special 45 rpm LPs I find way more than 50% of tapes I have heard to sound superior to their LP counterparts.

I think you use that single 25% data point to make it comfortable for you to reject tape as a possibility for you. If you heard tape I think you might change your mind. But I know you would have a lot of cognitive dissonance about opening up a whole new source medium in terms of machine selection, tape sourcing, time, expense, etc.

Although buying tapes from Leslie Brooks and Acoustic Sounds is pretty no fuss, no muss.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Why do non A80 owners need multiple tape machines as opposed to A80

Anyone who wants to perform dubbing -- playing a tape on one machine while recording a copy on a second machine -- needs two machines.

 

[bonzo75]

Ron, Marc was winding down. You just wound him up into tape

 

[NorthStar]

Fast rewind ...

 

[Ron Resnick]

Haha!

I encouraged Marc to explore tape two years ago. He is not interested in it.

But now that he has plenty of room for tape machines in the back of the listening room . . .

Has Marc ever actually heard tape? And to think . . . no VTA or VTF to adjust; no ticks or pops, no noisy record-cleaning machine, no problem of aging eyesight dropping the needle onto the incorrect groove, etc.

 

[bonzo75]

You just told him his informed opinion is from one person and you mentioned dissonance. Now he has to prove it's not so

 

[Ron Resnick]

Hahaha! We will see what Marc says . . .

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ked, I’m very happy not to have to do anything, except have a drink, kick back, and play an lp.

I have enough of an upward struggle trying to justify not going streaming to enter the arena of justifying not going tape.

For me, this opinion on tape SQ was not just an aside, but part of a very detailed answer from a person who had invested in tape, but was realistic about it.

He had cash to burn, and interestingly said that the tapes you’d expect to be stellar, but weren’t, were a lot from the Golden Age of stereo recording eg 50s and 60s classical, 50s jazz, Sinatra etc.

It was the tapes you least expected that were stellar eg 80s pop and rock.

Since the relaunch of my tt, and all-round upping of my game re my sound/room, it’s precisely classical and jazz I’m going to pig out on, and his words are sufficient note of caution.

For me personally, not anyone else necessarily.

 

[Ron Resnick]

All of Jeff T’s friends loved Leslie Brooks’ Led Zeppelin tape. Of course that music is before my time so I wasn’t familiar with it.