Your All Time Favorite Preamplifiers?

[musicfirst1]

I think active preamps are the only devices that provide the positive attributes of increased drive and dynamics I've described when placed between DAC and Amplifiers.
Passive devices, by definition, cannot and do not do this.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike, IMHO this nice line of though only manages to survive if we keep it qualitative or at a point the considered price is too low to pay a decent box and connectors ... As soon as you try to put a value in dollars on it we find that it the preamplifier / no preamplifier is mainly a preference - although sometimes I was attracted by the more "direct" sound of direct coupling without preamplifier for an initial period of time, in the long term I always preferred the sound wit an adequately chosen preamplifier - be it a Quad 34 with Quad amplifiers, a cj PV10 with cj power amplifiers or the top GAT , REF40 or 7.5 mk3.

my point was general; as i said "hard to define where that line is, but it is easy to hear"....while there IS a dollar factor, it's not exactly predictable. there are some very simple cheap great preamps out there to be discovered.

system builders simply need to test whether their preamp in the pretty box is helping or hurting. at lower price points it's typically hurting.

Top or bottom level preamplfieirs do the same - they manipulate the signal in a subjectively pleasant way. Otherwise why should we need an extreme power supply and chassis for something that does not increase the signal amplitude? We known that technically they are an absurd insertion in 99% of the cases. But we seem to prefer them!

now we get into semantics. what is transparent and what is enhancing?

 

[microstrip]

(...) ...and I am told the Robert Koda K15EX is sometimes described as a passive preamp with just right touch of super high quality power added to it in order to provide that endless drive and deep dig that Mike describes. (...)

Loyd,

Sorry to say that it is simply meaningless marketing verbosity. Passive means that it does not need a power supply and can't increase the power of the signal.

People must realize that pure water should be tasteless and we want to drink more that just hydrogen and oxygen ...

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Loyd,

Sorry to say that it is simply meaningless marketing verbosity. Passive means that it does not need a power supply and can't increase the power of the signal.

People must realize that pure water should be tasteless and we want to drink more that just hydrogen and oxygen ...

i prefer Fiji water, passing through the volcano/darTZeel on the way to the bottle.

 

[microstrip]

my point was general; as i said "hard to define where that line is, but it is easy to hear"....while there IS a dollar factor, it's not exactly predictable. there are some very simple cheap great preamps out there to be discovered.

system builders simply need to test whether their preamp in the pretty box is helping or hurting. at lower price points it's typically hurting.

Surely all points in stereo have exceptions. As long as do not put quantitative values nothing can be discussed. What is lower price point for you is perhaps high for many people (or vice-versa).

My point is that preamplifier / no preamplifier is a choice due to system builder preference. We can see it analyzing the systems of our members. The Lampizator designer clearly prefers no preamplifier with his top unit, many of his customers think otherwise.

now we get into semantics. what is transparent and what is enhancing?

What is the point? I simply said "manipulates the signal" in an objective way.

 

[musicfirst1]

Loyd,

Sorry to say that it is simply meaningless marketing verbosity. Passive means that it does not need a power supply and can't increase the power of the signal.

People must realize that pure water should be tasteless and we want to drink more that just hydrogen and oxygen ...

Sorry , Drive and dynamics are all related to signal gain characteristics and are as REAL to music and audio reproduction as any Amplification or Gain stage!

These are not 'flavors' or 'manipulations,' as you contend, but are easy to not only understand but to measure electrically

 

[microstrip]

(...) * Is this effect due to the 'colorizing' or 'editorializing' effect said to be present in essentially all preamps (usually a detractors or purists)? Poviding said preamp first 'does no harm'

Yes, we should assume it without any shame.

I simply don't know and don't care.
.

Ok.

 

[microstrip]

Sorry , Drive and dynamics are all related to signal gain characteristics and are REAL aspects of music and audio reproduction!

Signal gain is signal manipulation. Real aspects of signal manipulation are adding non linearity and noise.

These are not 'flavors' or 'manipulations,' as you contend, but are easy to not only understand but to measure electrically

Yes, we can measure preamplifiers. It is routinely done and shows that most of them, particularly the SOTA high-end, have flavors.

 

[musicfirst1]

Signal gain is signal manipulation. Real aspects of signal manipulation are adding non linearity and noise.



Yes, we can measure preamplifiers. It is routinely done and shows that most of them, particularly the SOTA high-end, have flavors.

The solution for you seems simple, just remove all gain devices from any given signal chain, then your 'problem' is solved!

 

[microstrip]

The solution for you seems simple, just remove all gain devices from any given signal chain, then your 'problem' is solved!

It is my dream, but as I said, I prefer the sound with the preamplifier.

 

[LL21]

It is my dream, but as I said, I prefer the sound with the preamplifier.

BTW, have you tried your CJ GAT 2 with the new CJ ART108A Monos? Was curious if you had...have been hearing some very good things about them.

 

[musicfirst1]

It is my dream, but as I said, I prefer the sound with the preamplifier.

Unfortunately, nothing, no matter what its design methodology, nothing approaches a straight wire with gain.

 

[microstrip]

BTW, have you tried your CJ GAT 2 with the new CJ ART108A Monos? Was curious if you had...have been hearing some very good things about them.

No, but today I am listening to the GAT2 and old ART amplifiers with a temporary pair of Raidho TD 4.8! Still setting up the speakers.

 

[microstrip]

Unfortunately, nothing, no matter what its design methodology, approaches a straight wire with gain.

We can always connect many floating equal sources in series - it is not a new idea!

 

[LL21]

No, but today I am listening to the GAT2 and old ART amplifiers with a temporary pair of Raidho TD 4.8! Still setting up the speakers.

Great! I imagine that pair makes good music...do the ARTs have enough power to drive the Raidhos?

 

[microstrip]

Great! I imagine that pair makes good music...do the ARTs have enough power to drive the Raidhos?

The ART mono block amplifiers are rated at 275W and the big Raidho's are an easy speaker - 90dB and I measured that the lower impedance point is around 3.5 ohm - no problem in this aspect.

 

[LL21]

The ART mono block amplifiers are rated at 275W and the big Raidho's are an easy speaker - 90dB and I measured that the lower impedance point is around 3.5 ohm - no problem in this aspect.

Enjoy!

 

[Alrainbow]

Unfortunately, nothing, no matter what its design methodology, nothing approaches a straight wire with gain.

Not true spend crazy money and then ignore any color lol.
but having said this imp , gain , voltage swing effect the overall Outcomes. And all of this is in the assumption of a neutrality design criteria

 

[Solypsa]

I am not an EE, but I believe that gain and signal buffering are here being used somewhat interchangeably, which is not helping clarity.

A passive volume control does not buffer signal, and does not increase signal level ( gain ) [ unless it is an avc/tvc with step up ratio as well as step down ].

An active preamp buffers signal and may or may not add gain to signal, as well as attenuation for volume control.


Carry on

 

[Nemal1]

My late fathers Beverage RM1/2, my own ARC SP14 and REF2 mk II are among some of my former preamp experiences.