IMHO you should read between the lines and filter the noise. I am finding a lot of information, facts and interesting conclusions spread in this thread.
ying and yang--Lamm ML3 and darTZeel 458
- Thread starter Mike Lavigne
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IMHO you should read between the lines and filter the noise. I am finding a lot of information, facts and interesting conclusions spread in this thread.
Sorry to see you consider so. And probably because I know better I could learn some interesting things from the thread. And I am expecting more.
No, I have efficient vintage subs that I drive with 18 watt SETs. I started off with Class A ss amps, then tried push/pull tube amps on the subs much better and worked well but there still was some discontinuity that that bugged me until I switched to another pair of Lamm SETs.
david
Yes, you have always been consistent about that...use the same amplification for mains as for subs. I have also heard this from others whom i trust.
I happen not to be doing that (space/complexity/availability/servicing, etc), but cut off above 40hz (36db slope), the big Velodyne works well imho, though i am sure it can be a lot better (as always in audio!).
Tron Syren has somewhat different tonal balance, than, for example VAC Signature IIA, I used to have, or my current Shindo Vosne Romanee.
One could call it "bright"
Dave, I’m seriously considering going w horns.
One can go in a couple of different directions.
Full range horns where mids/treble horns sit on Klipshorn-like basshorns, the whole thing being powered by a single set of tubes, or biamping w tubes (assuming the basshorns are of similar high efficiency to the mids/treble horns).
Examples include Haigner Alpha- and Gamma-Horns.
Or horns where the mids/treble horns are powered by tubes, but the bass (Basshorns or dynamic cones) are powered by SS, usually Class D (due to bass section being of much less sensitivity).
Examples include AGs, Cessaros, Sadurnis.
I’m assuming you only have time for the first category.
One can go in a couple of different directions.
Full range horns where mids/treble horns sit on Klipshorn-like basshorns, the whole thing being powered by a single set of tubes, or biamping w tubes (assuming the basshorns are of similar high efficiency to the mids/treble horns).
Examples include Haigner Alpha- and Gamma-Horns.
Or horns where the mids/treble horns are powered by tubes, but the bass (Basshorns or dynamic cones) are powered by SS, usually Class D (due to bass section being of much less sensitivity).
Examples include AGs, Cessaros, Sadurnis.
I’m assuming you only have time for the first category.
My ML2 are also DEAD quiet with 108 dB Avantgarde speakers.
I would also try to lift ground on amps PC just to test this idea.
yes, totally correct in your current room that is, with all due respect, on the small side. in your former (grande!) room up in Danville, it wasn't hard to hear the ML2.1 limitations (at a little more than half the ML3 wattage) particularly in the bass - and I remember you telling me you understood that criticism but craved the realistic midrange the Lamms provided vs. the big ARCs you had before. Mike's room is seemingly more like your former one. In fact, i'd bet its 4-5x bigger than your current room
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From my personal experience, noise got a lot to do with the matching preamp.
It's simply a question of different design approach from a different manufacturers.
Witnessed that first hand in my own, and other people's systems.
The best solution been mentioned previously- Lamm preamp.
You are doing that Lloyd, you're using solid state for both they don't have to be same brand just the same type of amplification.
david
Keith, I know I’m speaking to a Zu enthusiast (despite you ditching LOL the brand).
They’re soon to release their assault on the high end, incl carbon fibre impregnated birch cabinet, similar carbon fibre impregnation of paper cones of the FRDs, both of these approaches for the purpose of maxxing stiffness while minimising weight, 4x 12” subs per spkr.
TOTL Radian supertweeters. All drivers incl subs high efficiency, the FRDs in excess of 101dB, the subs just short of 100. Two subs per spkr tuned for impact/snap, two for warmth/bloom. High quality on board subs amps replacing current models Hypex, w facility to bypass w external amp of user’s choice, Duelund caps to high- and low-pass filters, Lundahls transformers to sub amps. Approx 60”x18”x20”.
If this doesn’t add up to Zu breaking into a true high end sound, I’m not sure what more they need to do.
(And yes, I do know it’s the sound that will make it high end or not, not a list of design parameters).
They’re soon to release their assault on the high end, incl carbon fibre impregnated birch cabinet, similar carbon fibre impregnation of paper cones of the FRDs, both of these approaches for the purpose of maxxing stiffness while minimising weight, 4x 12” subs per spkr.
TOTL Radian supertweeters. All drivers incl subs high efficiency, the FRDs in excess of 101dB, the subs just short of 100. Two subs per spkr tuned for impact/snap, two for warmth/bloom. High quality on board subs amps replacing current models Hypex, w facility to bypass w external amp of user’s choice, Duelund caps to high- and low-pass filters, Lundahls transformers to sub amps. Approx 60”x18”x20”.
If this doesn’t add up to Zu breaking into a true high end sound, I’m not sure what more they need to do.
(And yes, I do know it’s the sound that will make it high end or not, not a list of design parameters).
No, just similar or close topology for the sub amp but definitely it's best to use the exact same amplification if we're talking about bi-amping.
david
Brad, budget? In this hobby?
I asked a friendly guy yesterday how much he spent on his whole system. It transpired less than the cost of a single fuse in mine LOL.
He was amazed. When I then told him I had 18 of the basasses installed, he nearly fainted!
—
Looking at a maximum really of £40-50k. This is not going to happen right now, I’m still determined to eek out every last iota of performance from the Zus. I also have unavoidable spends on the chapel (yes, there is life outside audiophilia). But in the next 3 years, if I feel more and more compelled to go the horns route, £40-50k is my proposed budget.
And at that price, they’d BETTER be good, no half hearted bass extension, or lack of bass/mids integration, or dissociated drivers, or audible crossover artifacts, or flimsy construction. Or am I demanding too much?
I asked a friendly guy yesterday how much he spent on his whole system. It transpired less than the cost of a single fuse in mine LOL.
He was amazed. When I then told him I had 18 of the basasses installed, he nearly fainted!
—
Looking at a maximum really of £40-50k. This is not going to happen right now, I’m still determined to eek out every last iota of performance from the Zus. I also have unavoidable spends on the chapel (yes, there is life outside audiophilia). But in the next 3 years, if I feel more and more compelled to go the horns route, £40-50k is my proposed budget.
And at that price, they’d BETTER be good, no half hearted bass extension, or lack of bass/mids integration, or dissociated drivers, or audible crossover artifacts, or flimsy construction. Or am I demanding too much?
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