What's Best? Soulution, CH Precision, Vitus, or Ayre?

[morricab]

It smears over detail , the inner musical details become more obvious with top SS.

Rockport LYRA / CH 10 series made it quit obvious .
Also Halcro/ Vivid / analogue did it for me

After the last shows here in brussels i drew the same conclusions after hearing ARC / wilson and Octave .

In my new speaker designs i use top of the line scan speak which are a bit more revealing .
Even testing with my DIY 10 watt SS Class A amp versus the CAT made it obvious .

Another conclusion i have drawn for myself is that a bass reflex design smears the sound as well .
Due to mixing of the air coming from the port and unit membrane air displacement

You don't think the smear in bass reflex is due to the relatively high Q tuning most designs employ?

 

[andromedaaudio]

You don't think the smear in bass reflex is due to the relatively high Q tuning most designs employ?

My XPE design has a removable bass pipe and an additional HPL closing plate .

I must have tried at least 20 times closed versus bass reflex over the years , in my case its just based on listening nothing more
Funny enough listening to various YT vids of my system actually made me aware of it .

 

[Ron Resnick]

I am even more tripping because I have heard CH many many times now and STILL don't get that kind of shift.

Me too. That's my point too. But we are "tube people" and we are unlikely ever to hear from solid-state what we hear (or believe we hear) from tubes.

The answer (in my parlance) has to be that their sonic cues changed (sound preferences stayed constant but they figured out sonic cues with greater efficacy to achieve their sound preferences) or their sound preferences changed.

 

[morricab]

Me too. That's my point too. But we are "tube people" and we are unlikely ever to hear from solid-state what we hear (or believe we hear) from tubes.

The answer (in my parlance) has to be that their sonic cues changed (sound preferences and objective stayed constant but they figured out sonic cues with greater efficacy to achieve their preferences) or their sound preferences changed.

Well, Gian was one of the biggest "tube guys" you can imagine...he had a lot of top stuff...I guess I won't ever understand.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Top Tubes sound impressive at first .
I think the WADAX / ARC combination really sounds remarkable on vocals for example .

But after listening longer and longer you realize that besides the " breath of life " which tubes has , its not so accurate

 

[DasguteOhr]

You don't think the smear in bass reflex is due to the relatively high Q tuning most designs employ?

This mainly comes from unbalanced k2 thd. This means that the impulse response of the membrane is different from the decay response. A possible cause is the housing is too small or the bass reflex port is too narrow. often seen in step response diagrams. you can see this with the help of a sine tone. Most of the time the negative half wave has a different shape than the positive half wave

 

[morricab]

Top Tubes sound impressive at first .
I think the WADAX / ARC combination really sounds remarkable on vocals for example .

But after listening longer and longer you realize that besides the " breath of life " which tubes has , its not so accurate

Hint, its in the phrase "breath of life" ...

 

[mtemur]

I always hear better, tuneful bass from top tube amps than solid states. Bass is more realistic, fast, lifelike with tubes to my ears, but if you’re after earth shattering movie effects kind of bass than solid state can be better. BTW I heard most Boulder, Krell, CH, Soulution, ML, Constellation, Goldmund, Vitus etc.

 

[DasguteOhr]

I always hear better, tuneful bass from top tube amps than solid states. Bass is more realistic, fast, lifelike with tubes to my ears, but if you’re after earth shattering movie effects kind of bass than solid state can be better. BTW I heard most Boulder, Krell, CH, Soulution, ML, Constellation, Goldmund, Vitus etc.

Dartzeel 108 has a low damping factor and low feedback comes very close to the tube amp from sound. My opion

 

[morricab]

Dartzeel 108 has a low damping factor and low feedback comes very close to the tube amp from sound. My opion

Ummm....not really...read MF stereophile review of the Lamm ML3 where he compares it to his dart 458s. Chalk and cheese differences.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Ummm....not really...read MF stereophile review of the Lamm ML3 where he compares it to his dart 458s. Chalk and cheese differences.

Total diffrent circut as the108, listen to it when you can.for me not option i'm a tube guy

 

[morricab]

Total diffrent circut as the108, listen to it when you can.for me not option i'm a tube guy

Is it? i thought that it was just more but the same basic concept. I have heard the 108...but I am also a tube guy and to me it sounds nothing like the glowing bottles...

 

[andromedaaudio]

Best bang for buck Solid state i d probably go for Robert Koda K10 and CH M1.1

Its around 40 K second hand together and then you play in the top league of solid state .
Although i dont rule out my Cat legend tube pre might be better , i dont know .

(But for that i need to take investment money of the table and its a bit too early for that )

Regarding bass reproduction and control i have nothing to complain about , tubes might be even better in " orchestra swell " its just that tubes smear inner detail over

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

Best bang for buck Solid state i d probably go for Robert Koda K10 and CH M1.1

Its around 40 K second hand together and then you play in the top league of solid state .
Although i dont rule out my Cat legend tube pre might be better , i dont know .

(But for that i need to take investment money of the table and its a bit too early for that )

Regarding bass reproduction and control i have nothing to complain about , tubes might be even better in " orchestra swell " its just that tubes smear inner detail over

View attachment 120469

View attachment 120470

Do you think the RK K10 would be better than CH L1 with the CH M1.1 ?

I would also look at a top tube Pre-Amp to go with a top SS Power Amp if you have speakers with low to medium sensitivity !

 

[andromedaaudio]

Do you think the RK K10 would be better than CH L1 with the CH M1.1 ?

I would also look at a top tube Pre-Amp to go with a top SS Power Amp if you have speakers with low to medium sensitivity !

Off course I m not sure , id have to swap them side by side to give a better answer
I do think RK is the most tubey/ fluid transistor pre amp around .
CH Pre / power ( although being very precise ) might be a bit of a too "dry" combination

Ps a Mark levinson 32 is also still a contender for me

 

[andromedaaudio]

I would also look at a top tube Pre-Amp to go with a top SS Power Amp if you have speakers with low to medium sensitivity !

Already in the house .

My speakers are 93-94 Db with a fairly easy min impedance of 3.5 ohms .
Power is not an issue unless you go " low power" sets

 

[DasguteOhr]

Is it? i thought that it was just more but the same basic concept. I have heard the 108...but I am also a tube guy and to me it sounds nothing like the glowing bottles...

I don't have any schematics from 468 at hand. I mean, but there is something different. If I find it, I'll take another look. here the 108

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

Already in the house .

My speakers are 93-94 Db with a fairly easy min impedance of 3.5 ohms .
Power is not an issue unless you go " low power" sets

With 93-94dBA sensitivity speakers, wouldn't a high quality tube Power Amp sound better (i.e. more musical etc.) than a SS one, with the tube Power Amp hooked up to a Robert Koda Pre-Amp ?

 

[andromedaaudio]

With 93-94dBA sensitivity speakers, wouldn't a high quality tube Power Amp sound better (i.e. more musical etc.) than a SS one, with the tube Power Amp hooked up to a Robert Koda Pre-Amp ?

No , thats what im saying from the beginning .
In my view its the power amp that needs to amplify the signal with as less coloration as possible .
I m not talking " sound better " , i just want the musical inner detail without smearing .

You can give "character" to the sound with the pre amp.

I went CAT power tubes in 2014 , before that i had CLASSE Meridian Mark levinson KRELL Boulder

Solid state has become better since hence my wish to buy a solid state amp .
I will be keeping my CAT JL5 black path as well

 

[morricab]

No , thats what im saying from the beginning .
In my view its the power amp that needs to amplify the signal with as less coloration as possible .
I m not talking " sound better " , i just want the musical inner detail without smearing .

You can give "character" to the sound with the pre amp.

I went CAT power tubes in 2014 , before that i had CLASSE Meridian Mark levinson KRELL Boulder

Solid state has become better since hence my wish to buy a solid state amp .
I will be keeping my CAT JL5 black path as well

And that’s where we disagree. To my ears it hasn’t gotten better, just less obviously bad. If you listen for awhile you still hear what’s wrong…a sterility and lack of full musical sonic envelope development…it’s all leading edges that gives a false sense of “detail “ that isn’t even heard live up close. A lot of people get awed by this hyper resolution but fail to realize it’s at the expense of other musically relevant components to the sound.