What kind of investment and machinery needed to start a cable company?

[caesar]

Assuming one will not be outsourcing production, what kind of machinery is needed to manufacture cables? How much does this machinery cost?

 

[mep]

Why are you asking the above questions? I'm pretty sure the majority of cable companies outsource the actual manufacturing of the cables because the plant and capital equipment is very expensive if you are making a large line of cables in quantity. Not to mention the overhead of employees, maintenance, and the normal costs of doing business.

 

[caesar]

Why are you asking the above questions? I'm pretty sure the majority of cable companies outsource the actual manufacturing of the cables because the plant and capital equipment is very expensive if you are making a large line of cables in quantity. Not to mention the overhead of employees, maintenance, and the normal costs of doing business.

Are you so sure? And why do you have that nasty tone? Humility is a virtue!

 

[Peter Breuninger]

 

[mep]

Are you so sure? And why do you have that nasty tone? Humility is a virtue!

Sorry if you thought there was a nasty tone because none was meant. I seriously wanted to know your intentions when you asked the questions. And yes, I'm sure if you are a real cable house in the business of manufacturing large quantities of different types of cables that the investment in the plant and capital equipment would be in the millions of dollars and not in 6 figures. There is a reason that most cable companies don't manufacture their own cables. They might design them and terminate them, but I doubt that most actually make the raw cable. The investment is just far too steep.

 

[mep]

Peter-I saw that demo in person as well and it was pretty cool. However, These are simple cables wound from insulated wires with no jackets or internal shielding. It doesn't get much simpler than this and is not reflective of the actual machinery used to manufacture the actual wires and the finished product for complex cables.

 

[microstrip]

Assuming one will not be outsourcing production, what kind of machinery is needed to manufacture cables? How much does this machinery cost?

A soldering iron, some cutting tools to cut wire and remove the insulation and perhaps an heat gun to apply heat-shrink tubing and nice looking sleeves. A few hundred if you want decent quality equipment.

 

[mep]

A soldering iron, some cutting tools to cut wire and remove the insulation and perhaps an heat gun to apply heat-shrink tubing and nice looking sleeves. A few hundred if you want decent quality equipment.

Francisco my friend, you are understating things for anyone other than someone at home terminating cables which some audio cable companies actually do. And by that I mean I have known companies that hired assemblers as contractors and paid them by the piece part so they don't have to pay workman's comp and benefits. Professional soldering stations aren't cheap.

 

[JackD201]

trucks, people, sattelite downlinks,...........ooooh THAT kind of cable company!

 

[KBK]

Sometimes (OK, most times) the value is in the mind that conceives the given design, and then that design is weighed against what is in the marketplace. thus, one can come up with a 'economical run' of a given design,and sell that cable to folks.

There's a lot of ways to do it. To buy small bits of the cable, and do the majority of the manufacturing in house. Or to go to a major cable assembly manufacturer and have them build you a 50k foot run of a given design. Or some combination thereof.

In our case, there is no way around the fundamental of having to do it all in house, item by item. No one can buy a 4M cable from us and then attempt to re-terminate to shorter runs.

 

[RichDavis]

Sorry if you thought there was a nasty tone because none was meant. I seriously wanted to know your intentions when you asked the questions. And yes, I'm sure if you are a real cable house in the business of manufacturing large quantities of different types of cables that the investment in the plant and capital equipment would be in the millions of dollars and not in 6 figures. There is a reason that most cable companies don't manufacture their own cables. They might design them and terminate them, but I doubt that most actually make the raw cable. The investment is just far too steep.

The other aspect is that there are many different types of cable winders. Cardas' cables are wound VERY differently than Kimber, than they are with another brand. Some cable mfg like Bertram and a few others are actually not even using strands of cables, but they are using ribbons that might be fused together with a laser. VERY interesting process and design. The high speed cable winders that are used for the garden variety generic cables are not as "accurate" and exacting as these more expensive cable winders as they are meant for high speed winding for the companies that produce HUGE quantities and don't have tolerances that are tight as many of the higher end cables. From a consumer's standpoint, very little is known about the various cable mfg processes and equipment. It's an interesting topic for sure. Obviously, some companies prefer to keep their mfg processes a little secretive as that's part of their trade secret. There are what are called tubular cable winders, machines that bunch of the cable, braiding, etc.

If you look at some of the patent filing from some of the mfg, they specify the number and thickness of the strands and how many winds per foot for each group of strands and they many times vary within a cable and have to be done as to not be wound where they become loose inside the jacket.

Then there is the various test measurement equipment to test the impedance, capacitance and resistance of the cable, etc. and some of this test equipment can reach $100K just for one top end impedance tester.

Plus, for those companies that use silver plated, or silver cable, they have to be done VERY carefully at slower speeds since the cable or strands are very delicate and costly if they have too many broken strands since these winders can sometimes go at very high speed and the tension is very critical as to not wind them too tightly or too loosely.

 

[RichDavis]

A soldering iron, some cutting tools to cut wire and remove the insulation and perhaps an heat gun to apply heat-shrink tubing and nice looking sleeves. A few hundred if you want decent quality equipment.

Also it depends on what solder they use, there are a variety of solder on the market and depending on the amount of silver, etc. some can be VERY tricky on performing a proper termination and there is actually an art to it. Look into just selecting the type of solder to be used can be quite time consuming as it does make a difference in sound and reliability of connection.

Then there is the types of termination connectors, some buy from mfg that specialize in that, some actually make their own and selecting those is very time consuming and can be costly.

Then there are those like Transparent and MIT that design and mfg filter boxes and that is VERY costly since they have to source or make their own VERY precise components, circuit boards, and "spice the passive electronics" into the cable. Each component is tested on a very expensive and precise measurement tools. It's always interesting to visit these companies and get a tour of their facilities. Some of the companies allow you to do so and it's VERY interesting to see what and how they do it, but obviously they will keep certain things secretive as to not divulge everything.

 

[BobM]

I think to answer this question adequately you have to tell us several things ...

- what kind of cables (e.g. interconnects, speaker, power)?
- what is your anticipated volume of sales per month?
- what is the complexity of construction (e.g. coax w/ terminations, multiple braided or twisted strands w/ terminations, proprietary and complex w/ terminations
- in all the above I have to assume you are buying or contracting for some for of pre-made raw cable with dielectric already coated, otherwise you are likely insane.

Most cable start ups are home/kitchen table outfits, at least to begin. Those costs are fairly small, except for advertising and marketing and website. Even a braiding machine isn't all that expensive. But if you are planning to compete with the big boys that is a totally different league and likely involves very proprietary geometries and components.

 

[RichDavis]

I think to answer this question adequately you have to tell us several things ...

- what kind of cables (e.g. interconnects, speaker, power)?
- what is your anticipated volume of sales per month?
- what is the complexity of construction (e.g. coax w/ terminations, multiple braided or twisted strands w/ terminations, proprietary and complex w/ terminations
- in all the above I have to assume you are buying or contracting for some for of pre-made raw cable with dielectric already coated, otherwise you are likely insane.

Most cable start ups are home/kitchen table outfits, at least to begin. Those costs are fairly small, except for advertising and marketing and website. Even a braiding machine isn't all that expensive. But if you are planning to compete with the big boys that is a totally different league and likely involves very proprietary geometries and components.

If you want a good laugh, here's one site for you... It was sent to me by a friend. It's hilarious. Talk about starting up in a kitchen, this one qualifies, but the high end companies are not kitchen/bedroom cable mfg.


www.coconut-audio.com

 

[Lee]

Why are you asking the above questions? I'm pretty sure the majority of cable companies outsource the actual manufacturing of the cables because the plant and capital equipment is very expensive if you are making a large line of cables in quantity. Not to mention the overhead of employees, maintenance, and the normal costs of doing business.

A lot of them do but Black Cat does everything in-house starting with spools of copper and silver. It's pretty fun to watch. Capital investment is significant with several different types of weaving machines required. A single machine can cost as much as $40K. And to do at scale you need several. Raw material spools are expensive as are custom designed connectors.

I think what some miss here is the accumulated learning and experience one must have to do great cables. It took Chris Sommovigo decades of trying different things to develop his trade secrets on wire, geometry and connector design.

Building the wire on textile machines is challenging but it allows for custom shielding which has an impact on the sound.

 

[Lee]

Also note that most firms buy cable strands already shielded and then weave those and provide an outer shield. That's true for Kimber and I believe Cardas wire is outsourced. I am not sure how Nordost is manufactured.

 

[Lee]

Here is a cool video of the Aeron shielding process on Lectraline:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=592868750783760&set=vb.100001819206859&type=2&theater

Picture of one of the weaving machines with some commentary on manufacture:

https://www.facebook.com/BlackCatCa...0188280075461/522345551193064/?type=1&theater