What is your take on AC outlets

[microstrip]

I find expensive AC outlets simply shocking.

The serious question is where we draw the line between the shocking and non shocking AC products. I also find shocking referring to a $300 plug. But I found that my XXX power cables make my system sound better and bought them. Should I remove the expensive plug, replace with a standard plug costing usd5, sell the expensive plug and buy a good bottle of wine with the sales product?

 

[wes]

Agreed 100% same with expensive power cords

 

[Andre Marc]

The serious question is where we draw the line between the shocking and non shocking AC products. I also find shocking referring to a $300 plug. But I found that my XXX power cables make my system sound better and bought them. Should I remove the expensive plug, replace with a standard plug costing usd5, sell the expensive plug and buy a good bottle of wine with the sales product?

The wine would be more fun...

 

[FrantzM]

The wine would be more fun...

Hi

I will take a stab at the discussion and move away lurking: My position about power quality stems from my experience in my IT business. I witnessed the difference of behaviors with my routers, Servers, Switches and other communications material when the power quality was improved. In Telecom we have to take power quality seriously be it DC or AC. I used the same Telco grade in my system with results I can say where to me obvious. AC Power outlets will not change the Power Quality unless they have some kind of filter in them and even that is subject to what do these filters truly .. "filters" so do call me a skeptic on specialty, cryoed, etc AC outlets. Standard AC outlets don't establish a contact as well as Hospital grade outlets so it is better to use hospital grade than standards in that regard. Also in Hospital the longer pin in indeed up so that the vertical component of the plug weight (or some external vertical force such as a foot or something else falling over the plug) don't accidentally remove it from the outlet with often fatal consequences. In an Audio system where the plugs, conductors and sheath are usually substantial it would be best to leave them up. As for a system playing better when the ground plug is up .. will not say much.

I have written quite a bit in WBF about electrical Power Quality. I believe strongly it makes a difference. If one is going to invest a considerable amount in a system It is good to make sure that you feed your system quality power free of noise and of stable , constant voltage and with the capacity to provide any amount of power your system may require at a given moment. I don't believe and it is easy to prove that dedicated lines are not the best solution. I also don't believe that one should invest in thousands dollars power cords and hundreds of dollars AC outlets. Better put the money aside and buy a real serious AC power system. I favor Double conversion UPS (Telco grade) over Equi=Tech, Double conversion UPS are however far more involved in term of installation and integration in an house or in the USA NEC compliance. Still solutions like Equi=Tech IMHO are by light years better objectively and subjectively than expensive power cords, Cryo AC outlets and most of the "power conditioner" we, audiophile favor. Do yourselves a favor ask for an Equi=Tech or Torus quotes and leave your system with the original power cords... They're not inexpensive but worth every dollar. When you feel like tweaking you can always buy however many expensive power cords you want or can afford.. but please, solve the problem at the source: Make sure the Quality of the power fed to your system is good... AC outlets and power cords can't clean what upstream is already dirty and corrupted by everything in your house from AC to fridge to microwave ovens, light dimmers, fans and this is to say nothing of what garbage came along from the long ride from the power stations to your house..



P.S.The MIT AC outlet by the way I know nothing about it but I find its filters physically way too small to clean some nasty stuff, I could be wrong... The noise test doesn't tell me much

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Hi

I will take a stab at the discussion and move away lurking: My position about power qulaity stems from my experience in my IT business. I witness the difference of behavior with my routers , Switches and other communications material when the power quality was good. In Telcom we have to take power quality seriously be it DC or AC. I used the same Telco grade in my system with results I can say where to me obvious. AC Power sockets will not chage the Power Quaity unless they have some kind of filter inthem and even that is subject to what do these filters truly .. "filters" so do callmea skeptic on specialty, cryoed, etc AC outlets. Standard AC outlets don't establish a contact as well as Hospital grade outlets so it is better to use hspital grade than standards in that regard. Also in Hospital the longer pin in indeed up so that the vertical component of the plug weight (or some eexternal vertical force such as a foot or something else falling over the plug) don't accidentally remove it from the outlet with often fatal consequences. In an Audio system where the plugs, conductors and sheath are usually substantial it would be best to leave them up. As for a system playing better when the ground plug is up .. will not say much.

I have written quite a bit in WBF about electrical Power Quality. I believe strongly it makes a difference. If one is going to invest a considerable amount in a system It is good to make sure that you feed your system quality power free of noise and of stable , constant voltage and with the capacity to provide any amount of power your system may require at a given moment. I don't believe and it is easy to prove that dedicated lines are not the best solution. I also don't believe that one should invest in thousands dollars power cords and hundreds of dollars AC outlets. Better put the money aside and buy a real serious AC power system. I favor Double conversion UPS (Telco grade) over Equi=Tech, Double conversion UPS are however far more involved in term of installation and integration in an house or in the USA NEC compliance. Still solutions like Equi=Tech IMHO are by light years better objectively and subjectively than expensive power cords, Cryo AC outlets and most of the "power conditioner" we, audiophile favor. Do yourselves a favor ask for an Equi=Tech or Torus quotes and leave your system with the original power cords... They're not inexpensive but worth every dollar. When you feel like tweaking you can always buy however many expensive power cords you want or can afford.. but please, solve the problem at the source: Make sure the Quality of the power fed to your system is good... AC outlets and power cords can't clean what upstream is already dirty and corrupted by everything in your house from AC to fridge to microwave ovens, light dimmers, fans and this is to say nothing of what garbage came along from the long ride from the power stations to your house.. The MIT AC outlet by the way I know nothing about it but I find it filters physically way too small to clean some nasty stuff, I could be wrong... The noise test doesn't tell me much

Frantz,

i agree with your perspective pretty much completely. one is best served by starting with whole system isolation like an Equi=tech (or your preferred Telco grade UPS) and leaving everything else alone, than by getting all the power cords, duplex outlets and small box conditioners. stand alone conditioners work, but not on the level of the whole system approach to the degree that i've observed.

what is interesting is the reasonable cost of the whole system approach compared to the piece meal approach. if you can only do one thing then get the big boy.

 

[MylesBAstor]

The serious question is where we draw the line between the shocking and non shocking AC products. I also find shocking referring to a $300 plug. But I found that my XXX power cables make my system sound better and bought them. Should I remove the expensive plug, replace with a standard plug costing usd5, sell the expensive plug and buy a good bottle of wine with the sales product?

NPI?

Perhaps if they're shocking, they need to be reinstalled?

 

[vinylphilemag]

Frantz,

i agree with your perspective pretty much completely. one is best served by starting with whole system isolation like an Equi=tech (or your preferred Telco grade UPS) and leaving everything else alone, than by getting all the power cords, duplex outlets and small box conditioners. stand alone conditioners work, but not on the level of the whole system approach to the degree that i've observed.

what is interesting is the reasonable cost of the whole system approach compared to the piece meal approach. if you can only do one thing then get the big boy.

Almost as a side-effect of a somewhat limited means, I agree completely with this. As much as I would love to replace my stock AC power cords with upmarket ones to match my Nordost Frey interconnects and speaker cables, I too am a long-term, big picture thinker. When I redecorate my listening room, I will take the opportunity to install several dedicated AC lines, fed by their own panel. At a later date (once I've saved up enough Shekels), I'll replace that panel with something like Mike's Equi=tech 10WQ.

As Mike says, the cost of doing this really isn't much more than a high end power conditioner + some nice AC power cables. Of course, I might just not be able to resist the temptation to upgrade my power cables before installing the lines anyway!

 

[Andre Marc]

Hi

I will take a stab at the discussion and move away lurking: My position about power quality stems from my experience in my IT business. I witnessed the difference of behaviors with my routers, Servers, Switches and other communications material when the power quality was improved. In Telecom we have to take power quality seriously be it DC or AC. I used the same Telco grade in my system with results I can say where to me obvious. AC Power outlets will not change the Power Quality unless they have some kind of filter in them and even that is subject to what do these filters truly .. "filters" so do call me a skeptic on specialty, cryoed, etc AC outlets. Standard AC outlets don't establish a contact as well as Hospital grade outlets so it is better to use hospital grade than standards in that regard. Also in Hospital the longer pin in indeed up so that the vertical component of the plug weight (or some external vertical force such as a foot or something else falling over the plug) don't accidentally remove it from the outlet with often fatal consequences. In an Audio system where the plugs, conductors and sheath are usually substantial it would be best to leave them up. As for a system playing better when the ground plug is up .. will not say much.

I have written quite a bit in WBF about electrical Power Quality. I believe strongly it makes a difference. If one is going to invest a considerable amount in a system It is good to make sure that you feed your system quality power free of noise and of stable , constant voltage and with the capacity to provide any amount of power your system may require at a given moment. I don't believe and it is easy to prove that dedicated lines are not the best solution. I also don't believe that one should invest in thousands dollars power cords and hundreds of dollars AC outlets. Better put the money aside and buy a real serious AC power system. I favor Double conversion UPS (Telco grade) over Equi=Tech, Double conversion UPS are however far more involved in term of installation and integration in an house or in the USA NEC compliance. Still solutions like Equi=Tech IMHO are by light years better objectively and subjectively than expensive power cords, Cryo AC outlets and most of the "power conditioner" we, audiophile favor. Do yourselves a favor ask for an Equi=Tech or Torus quotes and leave your system with the original power cords... They're not inexpensive but worth every dollar. When you feel like tweaking you can always buy however many expensive power cords you want or can afford.. but please, solve the problem at the source: Make sure the Quality of the power fed to your system is good... AC outlets and power cords can't clean what upstream is already dirty and corrupted by everything in your house from AC to fridge to microwave ovens, light dimmers, fans and this is to say nothing of what garbage came along from the long ride from the power stations to your house..



P.S.The MIT AC outlet by the way I know nothing about it but I find its filters physically way too small to clean some nasty stuff, I could be wrong... The noise test doesn't tell me much

I just published a review of the Audience two outlet aR2p power conditioner. As John McDonald of Audience several years ago..the Power Is The Sound...

However, in the chain of movement, I classify AC outlets pretty low on the ladder in affecting sound quality. They can and do, but nothing like a good conditioner..and not even close to what a dedicated line can do.

 

[microstrip]

Although I easily agree with the idea of using a clean power supply, I can not find any rationale on which would be the best approach. We have power re generators that re-create the mains using DC obtained from the original mains, several types of balanced power transformers costing a lot, and intelligent re-generators that permanently add or subtract a signal to the mains to keep it close to ideal.

If you look carefully, these products are very different in the way they act on the mains, and seem to achieve similar results. All of them are currently expensive ways to get a cleaner mains - a simple power sinusoidal signal with a fixed frequency. Any justification for the relatively high price for such a simple task?

 

[Amado]

Hi

I will take a stab at the discussion and move away lurking: My position about power quality stems from my experience in my IT business. I witnessed the difference of behaviors with my routers, Servers, Switches and other communications material when the power quality was improved. In Telecom we have to take power quality seriously be it DC or AC. I used the same Telco grade in my system with results I can say where to me obvious. AC Power outlets will not change the Power Quality unless they have some kind of filter in them and even that is subject to what do these filters truly .. "filters" so do call me a skeptic on specialty, cryoed, etc AC outlets. Standard AC outlets don't establish a contact as well as Hospital grade outlets so it is better to use hospital grade than standards in that regard. Also in Hospital the longer pin in indeed up so that the vertical component of the plug weight (or some external vertical force such as a foot or something else falling over the plug) don't accidentally remove it from the outlet with often fatal consequences. In an Audio system where the plugs, conductors and sheath are usually substantial it would be best to leave them up. As for a system playing better when the ground plug is up .. will not say much.

I have written quite a bit in WBF about electrical Power Quality. I believe strongly it makes a difference. If one is going to invest a considerable amount in a system It is good to make sure that you feed your system quality power free of noise and of stable , constant voltage and with the capacity to provide any amount of power your system may require at a given moment. I don't believe and it is easy to prove that dedicated lines are not the best solution. I also don't believe that one should invest in thousands dollars power cords and hundreds of dollars AC outlets. Better put the money aside and buy a real serious AC power system. I favor Double conversion UPS (Telco grade) over Equi=Tech, Double conversion UPS are however far more involved in term of installation and integration in an house or in the USA NEC compliance. Still solutions like Equi=Tech IMHO are by light years better objectively and subjectively than expensive power cords, Cryo AC outlets and most of the "power conditioner" we, audiophile favor. Do yourselves a favor ask for an Equi=Tech or Torus quotes and leave your system with the original power cords... They're not inexpensive but worth every dollar. When you feel like tweaking you can always buy however many expensive power cords you want or can afford.. but please, solve the problem at the source: Make sure the Quality of the power fed to your system is good... AC outlets and power cords can't clean what upstream is already dirty and corrupted by everything in your house from AC to fridge to microwave ovens, light dimmers, fans and this is to say nothing of what garbage came along from the long ride from the power stations to your house..



P.S.The MIT AC outlet by the way I know nothing about it but I find its filters physically way too small to clean some nasty stuff, I could be wrong... The noise test doesn't tell me much

I'm just wanted to illustrated the difference between normal AC outlets and the MIT AC outlets with filters.
They really work and the sound is more clean and in video more blacker backgrounds.
If you need more info contact your nearest MIT dealer to a direct test. You will be amazed with the upgrade in your system.

regards,
Nelson

 

[flez007]

I must post an errata, my AC outlets are MIT not Nordost (lost on so many RMAF rooms)..thre were three options and I got the TOTL with digital filtering..again, no dramatical changes

 

[Steve Williams]

[/B]
I'm just wanted to illustrated the difference between normal AC outlets and the MIT AC outlets with filters.
They really work and the sound is more clean and in video more blacker backgrounds.
If you need more info contact your nearest MIT dealer to a direct test. You will be amazed with the upgrade in your system.

regards,
Nelson

I have 2 MIT 20 amp AC outlets with noise suppression in addition to 6 Furutech 20 amp AC outlets. What's nice about the MIT is that they will suppress noise on any outlet in parallel on that circuit up to 12-15 feet in either direction.

 

[Lee]

The only one I've found that can hold them tight enough, at least for me, is the Oyaide R-1. It almost feels like it "snaps" in to place. my powercords are about 4kg.

Bruce, I just installed an Oyaide GX+ outlet tonight and the grip is very tight!

 

[Cyclotronguy]

In a previous life my main concern was industrial signal processing.

Now I'm not suggesting but as food for thought

In that world; Rule of the First, all cable runs will be made in bonded IMC or Rigid..... with the conduit used as shields.... no exceptions! Safety grounds independent of shields...... no breaks or joints in ground runs.

THHN in EMT, FMC, liquitght or bare Romex evil nasty stuff it's proponents worthy of scorn or worse.

If you were really serious.... convenience power / lighting trunking was Belden 29502T or similar.

Cyclotronguy

 

[TBone]

I have been reading about them the past couple of days and there is no consensus. The conversation goes from 3.00 basic outlets to outlets costing hundreds. No one can seem to agree on anything. I want to know if it is worth Investing 2-3 hundred on some Ac outlets. If not I'll just by more music and call it a day.

No need for consensus if due-diligence ...

I've installed dedicated lines to my system room. As much as I figured that was going to help (it did) it really didn't start paying sonic dividends until I started replacing certain components like receptacles and fuses.

I don't think that you'll find consensus There are even 2-3 hundred $ AC outlet covers. I think that I'd enjoy $300 of music more than $300 of AC outlets or outlet covers.

However, upgrading the AC outlets to ones that grip better would improve SQ. I used the Hubbell hospital outlets with the green dot - the ones with the unplated copper terminals. I think that there's someone on this forum who would recommend another version, but I don't remember the one that was specifically recommended.

I've used a variety of "spec" and hospital grade plugs over the years, and decided to incorporate a Pass & Seymour model exclusively (power line conditioner plugs were also changed). The one thing I've consistently noticed with all the plugs I've used, is that they ALL fatigue over time. Replace a 3yr old P&S with the exact same model and you might be surprised how much "better" a tighter grip sounds.

If a $300 plug fatigues in the same manner, well ...

Fuses are much the same, replace 'em (esp when they start to look opaque and/or crystallized) every few years with the very same stock model and you might be surprised again.

I'm not suggesting that these new hi-end fuses or receptacles don't offer advantages, they probably do, but I'm not certain the improvement is going to last over the years, much in the same way the stock versions won't last. And considering the prices ... well ...

tb1

 

[rbbert]

I have 2 MIT 20 amp AC outlets with noise suppression in addition to 6 Furutech 20 amp AC outlets. What's nice about the MIT is that they will suppress noise on any outlet in parallel on that circuit up to 12-15 feet in either direction.

So then why not remove one of those nearby outlets and wire your amp's power cord directly to the house circuitry? Out of code, sure, but not necessarily hazardous. You still get the benefits of the MIT's noise suppression and avoid any potential compromise from even a high-grade outlet and plug?

 

[MylesBAstor]

So then why not remove one of those nearby outlets and wire your amp's power cord directly to the house circuitry? Out of code, sure, but not necessarily hazardous. You still get the benefits of the MIT's noise suppression and avoid any potential compromise from even a high-grade outlet and plug?

You've got to be kidding to recommend something out of code--not to mention leaving yourself open to a lawsuit. There's usually a good reason for it.

And God forbid anything happens, kiss your insurance policy good bye.

 

[Steve Williams]

So then why not remove one of those nearby outlets and wire your amp's power cord directly to the house circuitry? Out of code, sure, but not necessarily hazardous. You still get the benefits of the MIT's noise suppression and avoid any potential compromise from even a high-grade outlet and plug?

you read my mind Myles. Why the heck would I do something out of code

 

[rbbert]

You've got to be kidding to recommend something out of code--not to mention leaving yourself open to a lawsuit. There's usually a good reason for it.

And God forbid anything happens, kiss your insurance policy good bye.

Not recommending, speculating.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Not recommending, speculating.

Well years ago when I wrote the Tice PB review, I received a note from a gentleman in the UK who had hard wired his system ino the wall. The upshot was a significant jump in SQ but caveat emptor. Not to mention, no electrician would do it.