What ethernet cables are members using?

[still-one]

This is the problem with people and cables, the assumption that different is better. I think he got good advice. Choose your levels of distortion and RF intrusion somewhere else. Maintain the signal quality at least to the DAC. When you have EVERY piece changing the sound, then it’s really really really hard to tell when you do anything right. You need a starting point, and the cleanest digital is a great place to start. Then choose your distortions you like, choose SET’s, vintage speakers, diffracting speakers, whatever it is that you like the sound of.

Unless the routers are setup for shields and run balanced, then shields probably do nothing but warp phase. Unless the whole setup is made for something beyond cat6, and the features are standard, it’s probably a downgrade - but it might sound different!

As mentioned in another thread, I like the idea of using fiber to isolate, and then making the fiber reciever be super low noise. That to me is probably the best way you can maintain signal integrity and leave noise behind. Instead people are creating ground loops, warping phase, etc, to hear something else.

That may be your idea of problems with people and cables. There is absolutely no reason not to use every component in your system to allow you to get closer to the sound "you" want to hear. If cable A gets you closer to what you want to hear than cable B it doesn't matter what it is doing to get you there. You are making a lot of assumptions as to what is happening as individuals try various devices and or interconnects within their set-ups.

I don't disagree with your point that if you are changing several items at once it is difficult to determine which change(s) is ultimately doing what to your system. We all have our methods for auditioning and introducing different components in our set-up. I would hope I could isolate each product I insert in my set-up but there have been times when changes have overlapped.

 

[Folsom]

You’re making a lot of sense if it weren’t for a purely digital side. If an ethernet cable makes your system good, you have other problems. I do not and will not see it any other way. The question is whether or not you will spend the time to figure out the problem or just use the cable, knowing it’ll throw off further changes and stutter ultimate potential. Perhaps it is a question of commitment.

 

[Solypsa]

I tend to look at this as ( and in this order)
1) low noise network hardware (routers, switches and optical to ethernet convertors if present and their attendant power supplies)
2) further isolation (hardware [above] that properly supports shielding, transformer based passive devices, active 'decrappifiers' etc.)
3) well built cablng for above...

 

[BlueFox]

The problem with Ethernet cables for audio is how much jitter they add. The signal will be okay from a CRC perspective, but jitter will affect how the signal is converted to analog. The more jitter then the less musically accurate is the signal.

 

[Folsom]

The problem with Ethernet cables for audio is how much jitter they add. The signal will be okay from a CRC perspective, but jitter will affect how the signal is converted to analog. The more jitter then the less musically accurate is the signal.

Oh really? I doubt it.

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2015/02/measurements-ethernet-cables-and-audio.html?m=1

 

[BlueFox]

So all Ethernet cables sound the same. Okay. LOL

 

[still-one]

You’re making a lot of sense if it weren’t for a purely digital side. If an ethernet cable makes your system good, you have other problems. I do not and will not see it any other way. The question is whether or not you will spend the time to figure out the problem or just use the cable, knowing it’ll throw off further changes and stutter ultimate potential. Perhaps it is a question of commitment.

Good stick to your own set-up which y-u might know something about. I’ll continue to tweak mine.

 

[Folsom]

So all Ethernet cables sound the same. Okay. LOL

No, but properly designed ones don’t induce jitter or noise. If they did this forum wouldn’t be on the internet.

 

[BlueFox]

They all induce jitter. The issue is how much. That is what happens when you use an analog signal to represent a digital signal. That is what is on an Ethernet cable.

 

[Folsom]

They all induce jitter. The issue is how much. That is what happens when you use an analog signal to represent a digital signal. That is what is on an Ethernet cable.

Well, there is some but it’s negligible and doesn’t change over distance on properly made cables. No one is showing a lower noise floor or reduced jitter measurements on these audiophile cables.

DSD isn’t the best format given that it’s subjectable to being changed across runs of cables that induce noise/jitter (the audiophile ones).

 

[Solypsa]

They all induce jitter. The issue is how much. That is what happens when you use an analog signal to represent a digital signal. That is what is on an Ethernet cable.

Is there such a thing as a digital signal?

 

[Folsom]

Is there such a thing as a digital signal?

Eh, I suggest reading about DSD. DSD is basically classD audio. It’s not exactly what he’s saying, but I believe he has the jist. The DSD is a streaming high frequency that acts as a carrier. So there is an analog signal within the digital. When it arrives at the DAC it smooths it and attenuates the high frequency stuff through filters. The inner “analog” signal is left over. The “analog” signal is digital but plays like it isn’t because it doesn’t have big gaps like a red book cd between the sample points. It’s basically already at the state that a DAC converts red book CD to.

 

[Sablon Audio]

Reading the posts in this thread, it strikes me that there are two camps out there; those who don’t believe that a lan cable can be of benefit and those who have accepted that they can improve SQ. For the former group, here is a post that a customer, who came to me after reading the recent Audio Bacon review, made last week on Computer Audiophile on his journey through ethernet cables:

In the beginning, I didn’t think ethernet cable can be a bottleneck, I tried various generic CAT6, 7 cables with no obvious difference, then I tried Ghant JSSG ethernet cable with slight improvement, later test a couple generic CAT7 cable with JSSG360 treatment with slight improvement as well, but my feeling towards ethernet cable changed from my recent experience with Sablon Audio. I mostly get to know their ethernet cable based on positive inputs from different forums, some online reviews, and discussions privately with few members here. I was conservative at first, ordering just one cable to replace the one from switch to NUC endpoint, surprisingly, after inserting this cable, right away, I detect a positive change that isn’t subtle. With 4 days of burn-in, the cable is settling down nicely, and clearly makes sound stage a bit wider but much deeper. Overall, I sense an increased overall detail, very neutral and smooth, music is tighter, denser, bass layering is more defined, and piano sound more delicate, crisp, and controlled. As a result, I placed a second order to replace the cable between server and switch.

See post #12987 (!) https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...reaming/?page=520&tab=comments#comment-925502

For those in the second camp, I would say that my Sablon lan cable has been widely compared (and preferred) to the top models from mainstream manufacturers referred to elsewhere in this thread and even to a EUR2500 boutique model feeding a Pacific dac, though I can imagine the cost saving played a part in that client’s purchase decision!

 

[Solypsa]

Eh, I suggest reading about DSD. DSD is basically classD audio. It’s not exactly what he’s saying, but I believe he has the jist. The DSD is a streaming high frequency that acts as a carrier. So there is an analog signal within the digital. When it arrives at the DAC it smooths it and attenuates the high frequency stuff through filters. The inner “analog” signal is left over. The “analog” signal is digital but plays like it isn’t because it doesn’t have big gaps like a red book cd between the sample points. It’s basically already at the state that a DAC converts red book CD to.

I was joking a little; but its interesting you mention dsd because as I made my post i was thinking about B Putzeys talking about 'digital class d' and 'analog class d'. My main point was that digital will be a signal only when it is in some material form (light wave, electrical wave etc.) and was responding to the previous post.

 

[joaovieira]

I use Sablon. And it is very good.

 

[Jeffy]

I just put in the Gigafoil V4 with its supplied power supply. It completely transformed my system. Gone is the slight brightness and upper mid range glare that I thought was do to the Wireworld ethernet cables. This has made the most significant change to my digital set up that I ever heard. I am using a PC with a J cat net card femto and Sbooster power supply. This is attached to a local router with an Sbooster which then goes to an Aqvox SE Switch. The switch then goes to the Gigafoil and then to the Bricasti M21 DAC. I even ordered Sablon cables because of the Wireworld brightness and now I don't think I need them. I kid you not this is the best digital sound I ever had. I don't know if putting an Sbooster on the Gigafoil will even make a difference. I'm on cloud 9.

 

[ayreman]

Supra is my favorite inexpensive Ethernet cable but connection to my DAC is not tight. Every time something moves, had to play around getting to work again. Finally had enough and bought AQ Diamond, a fantastic cable!

Do you mean you bought RJ/E Diamond? If so, I'm very curious where exactly are you using it and why you think it is fantastic?

 

[Blackmorec]

A year ago I started from scratch with a ISP 2 band modem/router and a new system based on the Innuos Zenith SE. The hi-fi room was on a dedicated mains supply and ca. 15m from the router on a different floor. This is the journey.
Thanks to a very cooperative dealer and 3 local consumer electronics stores I was able to try a fairly large array of different networking strategies.
The first thing I tried was a direct CAT5 ethernet cable installed bungee style, thrown over the stairs. Worked fine. My next move was the installation of an AQVox SE switch/reclocker/cleaner in front of the Innuos. Nice improvement. The only remaining problem was that the ISB router wasn’t that good and mobile devices would constantly loose connection, so I started experimenting. The first thing the ISP engineer did was install an Internet over Power extender. While I knew this wasn’t a great move, it allowed me to try a 10M Synergistic Research Active Ethernet cable. After an initial 24 hours burn-in, I was surprised to hear a reasonable gain in SQ. Surprising. Maybe it was solving another problem as Folsom suggests, but the SR cable did bring a significant uplift. I was never happy with IOP so the next step was to try various brands of Mesh Wi-fi. Here I wasn’t so happy...the mesh seemed to introduce quite some latency into the wi-fi and I thought SQ went backwards. Following that I bought a TPLink RE650 extender for the hi-fi room. This again brought an improvement in SQ, even when using the 15m or 10m cables to link extender to the AQVox switch. I set up the extender on the 5GHz band with the hi-fi as the only client and polling and 2.1GHz disabled, so while hi-fi benefitted from the extender, the rest of my network was still problematic.
Next step was to add a TPLink 3 Band AC5400 Archer router, switching the ISP router to modem only mode. The new router was set up to connect the hi-fi’s extender exclusively to one of its 5GHz bands and this achieved significant gains. I set up another extender on the 2.1GHz band for roaming and distant devices, and connected all the remaining fixed internet devices to the 2nd 5Ghz band. This achieved rock solid wi-fi connection for all devices and the highest SQ I’d yet achieved. The following optimization steps brought further SQ gains.
Placing the modem on an anti-vibration rack
Substituting a Meicord LAN cable between Modem and Router
Substituting a SR LAN cable between Modem and Router
Replacing the Modem and Router SMPSs with a dual rail LPS
Substituting the 10M LAN SR Active cable from RE650 to AQVox with a 1.5M SR Atmosphere X Ref cable
Substituting the AQVos’s SMPS with a good LPS
Substituting the RE650’s internal SMPS for an LPS
Attaching the RE650 to an anti-vibration wall mount
Placing the LPSs on an anti-vibration stand

Every change was subject to a burn-in period....the consumer electronics took 24-48 hours, cables about 72 hours but the LPSs with their large Mundorf caps took almost 2 months to sound their absolute best. I put this down to the rather low voltages and current draws of the powered devices.

 

[Alpinist]

Has anyone tried the Gobel Ethernet Cable? I’ve read comments that it is extremely musical sounding. Someone even replaced their AudioQuest Diamond Ethernet Cable with it. It is very expensive.

Ken

 

[nonesup]

At least one WBF member (other than mine) who has this cable.