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#61
Graphic EQ of 5 tubes per channel for frequency adjustment, one frequency per one triode part, so two frequencies per tube, one tube as a differential pair and half of one as a cathode follower.
Frequencies will be 32Hz, 64Hz, 125Hz, 250Hz, 500Hz, 1KHz, 2KHz, 4KHz, 8KHz, & 16KHz.
The unit will consist of two mono blocks pcb's, so I could build a mono EQ, one power supply pcb and two frequency adjuster pcb's, which by the way ended up being a 4 layer pcb!, one for each mono block. Adjustment will be via rotary potentiometers. Attached is a front panel design.
 

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Apr 3, 2010
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Seattle, WA
#62
OK, thanks. I thought for a moment it was a parametric EQ that could be used for bass frequencies. With fixed center frequencies and so few of them there, it won't be useful for that application.

So who is the target customer?
 

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
6,464
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#65
Last time I heeded your advice I ended up buy-in the IFi microDSD .... and I am still satisfied :D ... A surprising good DAC with a decent amplifier. I use it as a portable device when I travel... The darn thing is however a serious DAC capable of fooling a lot of seasoned audiophiles into thing they are listening to thousands of dollars worth of DAC on PCM or DSD..

I am interested by this Berning designed Amp.. What is their return policy?

Will PM you ...
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
10,264
1,633
358
E. England
#66
Yes, sir, they are at the very top of my list to get a chance to hear. Along with their new Roon equipped streamer.
You have GOT to hear them! Everyone has GOT to hear them! Everybody has GOT to own them! GOT that?!
Heard them at the Windsor HiFi show nr London, just around the corner from the Queen, who may or may not have been at home in her castle.
We had just been assaulted brutally by a $300k rig incl giant stack of Mark Levinson electronics and Kef Muons, when we walked into this unassuming room housing a simple pair of 89" x 6" x 6", $400 Elac B6's.
Andrew Jones the designer was in attendance, and he was very proud of his babies, and quite rightly so.
The room had judicious room treatment, and some modest electronics.
And then the music started. And then my jaw dropped.
First of all, just how was this bottom end possible w/no sub? No joke the bass was fully formed. Next the soundstage, tall wide and deep, there is NO way a spkr of these dimensions should have any business showing this amount of staging and imaging.
Then the greatest thing of all happened, me and my two friends just stayed sitting for track after track, totally absorbed and incredulous of what was happening. And just when you thought you might be starting to hear the spkr for what it really was, a nice surprise came along when the next song shook your beliefs again. Now I've heard amazing bookshelf spkrs that are great at small scale, acoustic, vocals etc, and fall on their arses when asked to play loud dynamic and complex. The Elacs? Very much the opposite, indeed Count Basie was more amazing on them than the singer songwriter on the previous track.
No joke, an AG Duo horns and two Zu owners talked, at least for 5 seconds, about swapping out our beloved spkrs for the Elacs!
 

DaveC

Industry Expert
Nov 16, 2014
2,969
826
180
#67
You have GOT to hear them! Everyone has GOT to hear them! Everybody has GOT to own them! GOT that?!
Heard them at the Windsor HiFi show nr London, just around the corner from the Queen, who may or may not have been at home in her castle.
We had just been assaulted brutally by a $300k rig incl giant stack of Mark Levinson electronics and Kef Muons, when we walked into this unassuming room housing a simple pair of 89" x 6" x 6", $400 Elac B6's.
Andrew Jones the designer was in attendance, and he was very proud of his babies, and quite rightly so.
The room had judicious room treatment, and some modest electronics.
And then the music started. And then my jaw dropped.
First of all, just how was this bottom end possible w/no sub? No joke the bass was fully formed. Next the soundstage, tall wide and deep, there is NO way a spkr of these dimensions should have any business showing this amount of staging and imaging.
Then the greatest thing of all happened, me and my two friends just stayed sitting for track after track, totally absorbed and incredulous of what was happening. And just when you thought you might be starting to hear the spkr for what it really was, a nice surprise came along when the next song shook your beliefs again. Now I've heard amazing bookshelf spkrs that are great at small scale, acoustic, vocals etc, and fall on their arses when asked to play loud dynamic and complex. The Elacs? Very much the opposite, indeed Count Basie was more amazing on them than the singer songwriter on the previous track.
No joke, an AG Duo horns and two Zu owners talked, at least for 5 seconds, about swapping out our beloved spkrs for the Elacs!
They are very good but not sure I'd go that far (as swapping out my current speakers)! I did get to check out the Rune based music server, that looks amazing... I'm very happy with my Sony HAP-Z1ES sound quality but the Rune/ELAC software is so much nicer.


I also heard the Berning ZOTL amps at RMAF with Vapor Nimbus speakers, it was very good. There was this long line of transistors in the amp without any heat sinks... I could not figure out how this amp works, does he share/explain his topology?
 

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
5,094
734
238
Greater Boston
#68
Next the soundstage, tall wide and deep, there is NO way a spkr of these dimensions should have any business showing this amount of staging and imaging.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's normal for a set of good mini monitors that are set-up well. Madfloyd couldn't believe the wall of sound that greeted him when he heard Green Day in my system (see his comments on my thread, linked in my signature), and someone else who listened to the same music thought that it sounded like he sat in front of a huge PA with towers of speakers (well, I do have a sub as well, which helps). Both couldn't believe the sheer size of the sound coming out of these little darlings.

People also comment that with other music the depth of my soundstage is astounding.
 

Andre Marc

Member Sponsor
Mar 14, 2012
3,970
2
0
San Diego
www.avrev.com
#69
Last time I heeded your advice I ended up buy-in the IFi microDSD .... and I am still satisfied :D ... A surprising good DAC with a decent amplifier. I use it as a portable device when I travel... The darn thing is however a serious DAC capable of fooling a lot of seasoned audiophiles into thing they are listening to thousands of dollars worth of DAC on PCM or DSD..

I am interested by this Berning designed Amp.. What is their return policy?

Will PM you ...
Sure thing. PM me, I am not 100% of the return policy, but I will give you some information.

Frantz, you are so right about the iFI Micro iDSD! I can fool a lot of folks into thinking it is a multi-thousand dollar decoder.

Here is a little secret..I am using in my main system, in the interim, while waiting for the new Simaudio 280D DSD DAC, with the Berning, with an $8000 Simaudio amp, a $3000 Bryston file player, and $3200 Bryston speakers. It just replaced the $5000 Simaudio 380D DAC that was sent back to Simaudio. Note also the iFI Gemni split USB cable and the new Micro iUSB 3.0.

I gotta tell you..it fits right in!
IMG_1807.JPG
 

Andre Marc

Member Sponsor
Mar 14, 2012
3,970
2
0
San Diego
www.avrev.com
#70
You have GOT to hear them! Everyone has GOT to hear them! Everybody has GOT to own them! GOT that?!
Heard them at the Windsor HiFi show nr London, just around the corner from the Queen, who may or may not have been at home in her castle.
We had just been assaulted brutally by a $300k rig incl giant stack of Mark Levinson electronics and Kef Muons, when we walked into this unassuming room housing a simple pair of 89" x 6" x 6", $400 Elac B6's.
Andrew Jones the designer was in attendance, and he was very proud of his babies, and quite rightly so.
The room had judicious room treatment, and some modest electronics.
And then the music started. And then my jaw dropped.
First of all, just how was this bottom end possible w/no sub? No joke the bass was fully formed. Next the soundstage, tall wide and deep, there is NO way a spkr of these dimensions should have any business showing this amount of staging and imaging.
Then the greatest thing of all happened, me and my two friends just stayed sitting for track after track, totally absorbed and incredulous of what was happening. And just when you thought you might be starting to hear the spkr for what it really was, a nice surprise came along when the next song shook your beliefs again. Now I've heard amazing bookshelf spkrs that are great at small scale, acoustic, vocals etc, and fall on their arses when asked to play loud dynamic and complex. The Elacs? Very much the opposite, indeed Count Basie was more amazing on them than the singer songwriter on the previous track.
No joke, an AG Duo horns and two Zu owners talked, at least for 5 seconds, about swapping out our beloved spkrs for the Elacs!
I agree these speakers need to be heard by everyone...FIRST..it is Andrew Jones. Anyone who has spent anytime in front of his TAD
designs knows he is the man.

Secondly, I am very intrigued by what a designer, who formally had CARTE BLANCHE with the budget, using the most cost no object parts and
components, can do with a tiny budget
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
10,264
1,633
358
E. England
#71
Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's normal for a set of good mini monitors that are set-up well. Madfloyd couldn't believe the wall of sound that greeted him when he heard Green Day in my system (see his comments on my thread, linked in my signature), and someone else who listened to the same music thought that it sounded like he sat in front of a huge PA with towers of speakers (well, I do have a sub as well, which helps). Both couldn't believe the sheer size of the sound coming out of these little darlings.

People also comment that with other music the depth of my soundstage is astounding.
I have a whole new appreciation for small/bookshelf spkrs. The giant KEF Muons were embarrassing in comparison.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
10,264
1,633
358
E. England
#72
I agree these speakers need to be heard by everyone...FIRST..it is Andrew Jones. Anyone who has spent anytime in front of his TAD
designs knows he is the man.

Secondly, I am very intrigued by what a designer, who formally had CARTE BLANCHE with the budget, using the most cost no object parts and
components, can do with a tiny budget
Hmm, there's a possiblity this isn't the case. Maybe he had access to Elac's work on the rest of the portfolio, and just distilled the pure essence into a performance-busting package. That's not to say he hasn't performed magic, but access to the rest of Elac's expertise surely helped.
 

Andre Marc

Member Sponsor
Mar 14, 2012
3,970
2
0
San Diego
www.avrev.com
#73
Hmm, there's a possiblity this isn't the case. Maybe he had access to Elac's work on the rest of the portfolio, and just distilled the pure essence into a performance-busting package. That's not to say he hasn't performed magic, but access to the rest of Elac's expertise surely helped.
Oh yes, no doubt he called on ELAC's established resources. For sure. Also, I must restate I have not heard the new line yet. But this is one case
where the reports have been overwhelmingly positive. I can't wait to hear them and judge for my self!
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
10,264
1,633
358
E. England
#74
Almost every room at the show had issues, the main one being they were all give or take about square, almost cuboid if you take in the high ceilings. The Kef Muons were just shouty, the sound from the Magico S7s even though the most impressive I've heard them yet just didn't escape the cabinets. The big flagship Maggies were suprisingly open, but didn't have half the bass the Elacs did, and clipped at modest volumes despite 300W amps.
And room after room displayed the same traits, bass that was too boomy, or astringent treble, unwelcoming sounds. The occasional room that had tubes and vinyl playing were the best, but even some of these were either loosey goosey at the low end or tending to hardness higher up.
So, as we hit the Elac room, me and friends had below-zero expectations.
It's SO great to have audio suprise you, and jolt you out of negative expectation bias.

Fascinatingly, we drifted off to the only other great demo of the show, a TW Acustic/Tron/DeVore room, w/Mike Valentine of Zen Sati Records regaling us w/humorous anecdotes of recording direct to vinyl in real time, and w/no edits etc. We unbeknownst to me ended up outside the Elac room again. Copland's "Fanfare" was on and as those tympani strikes hit, the space OUTSIDE the room was as energised nearly as much as the room inside, and I said to the guys words to the effect that we ought to pop in and hear whatever eg big Wilsons were playing.
I was then informed they were the dimunitive Elacs!
My admiration for them knows no bounds.

Just how could 99% of rooms get such a poor sound, yet Andrew w/some judicious treatments and power conditioning, and the Elacs of course, get the sound of the decade?
 
Apr 3, 2010
15,814
3
0
Seattle, WA
#75
Hmm, there's a possiblity this isn't the case. Maybe he had access to Elac's work on the rest of the portfolio, and just distilled the pure essence into a performance-busting package. That's not to say he hasn't performed magic, but access to the rest of Elac's expertise surely helped.
I spoke to Andrew when he was at Pioneer and performed the same magic there. I asked him how he got them to sound good and he said he had used budget parts but with some care. So I don't think there is any dipping into ELAC parts bin. The speakers are built in China out of what they usually offer, but this time spec'ed by a good designer.

I think he said they are going to bring out a higher end set of speakers at CES which would be manufactured in the west and would perform better.
 

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
5,094
734
238
Greater Boston
#76
I have a whole new appreciation for small/bookshelf spkrs. The giant KEF Muons were embarrassing in comparison.
By the way, when I reported "someone else who listened to the same music [Green Day] thought that it sounded like he sat in front of a huge PA with towers of speakers (well, I do have a sub as well, which helps)",

I should have added that I do think that the impressions that person had, while understandable, were clearly exaggerated. Nonetheless, it shows how unexpected the large sound of good minimonitors can be.

As for large speakers, I also have heard a lot of embarrassing sound from this type of transducers. However, the best sound that I have heard still came from large speakers, though not giant ones, the Magico M Project in Madfloyd's sytem.
 

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
5,094
734
238
Greater Boston
#77
Almost every room at the show had issues, the main one being they were all give or take about square, almost cuboid if you take in the high ceilings. The Kef Muons were just shouty, the sound from the Magico S7s even though the most impressive I've heard them yet just didn't escape the cabinets. The big flagship Maggies were suprisingly open, but didn't have half the bass the Elacs did, and clipped at modest volumes despite 300W amps.
And room after room displayed the same traits, bass that was too boomy, or astringent treble, unwelcoming sounds. The occasional room that had tubes and vinyl playing were the best, but even some of these were either loosey goosey at the low end or tending to hardness higher up.
So, as we hit the Elac room, me and friends had below-zero expectations.
It's SO great to have audio suprise you, and jolt you out of negative expectation bias.

Fascinatingly, we drifted off to the only other great demo of the show, a TW Acustic/Tron/DeVore room, w/Mike Valentine of Zen Sati Records regaling us w/humorous anecdotes of recording direct to vinyl in real time, and w/no edits etc. We unbeknownst to me ended up outside the Elac room again. Copland's "Fanfare" was on and as those tympani strikes hit, the space OUTSIDE the room was as energised nearly as much as the room inside, and I said to the guys words to the effect that we ought to pop in and hear whatever eg big Wilsons were playing.
I was then informed they were the dimunitive Elacs!
My admiration for them knows no bounds.

Just how could 99% of rooms get such a poor sound, yet Andrew w/some judicious treatments and power conditioning, and the Elacs of course, get the sound of the decade?
it is simply much easier to get good sound from small speakers also under suboptimal conditions, such as shows. Proper set-up of large speakers is just so hard, starting with the fact that they are much more sensitive to placement within a room. While also for small speakers there will be optimal positions, you can basically put them anywhere and they will still sound at least somewhat good.
 

Andre Marc

Member Sponsor
Mar 14, 2012
3,970
2
0
San Diego
www.avrev.com
#78
it is simply much easier to get good sound from small speakers also under suboptimal conditions, such as shows. Proper set-up of large speakers is just so hard, starting with the fact that they are much more sensitive to placement within a room. While also for small speakers there will be optimal positions, you can basically put them anywhere and they will still sound at least somewhat good.
So why would a knucklehead exhibitor at a show cram some monstrosity of a speaker into a cramped hotel room? And then bitch and make excuses about the crappy sound.
 
Last edited:

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
5,094
734
238
Greater Boston
#79
So why would a knucklehead exhibitor at a show cram some monstrosity of a speaker into a cramped hotel room? And then bitch and make excuses about the crappy sound.
Because he's a knucklehead ;)

Seriously, as we found out last weekend with some position shifting in Madfloyd's sytem (he already had found a great position but we were experimenting), you have to have a certain distance from a large speaker for everything to jump into focus. It can be a matter of inches. And the Magico M Project are not even that large. On the other hand, I sit very close to my minimonitors that are spread wide apart, and still get a very focused soundstage (I could sit even closer when it comes to just that).

And that was only the image focus. You can sit closer to the Magico M Project for just coherent sound because the drivers are so incredibly well integrated. With other large speakers, not to mention giant ones, you would probably have to sit some good distance away to even just experience driver integration. That can be tough in a cramped hotel room.
 
Last edited:

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
10,264
1,633
358
E. England
#80
it is simply much easier to get good sound from small speakers also under suboptimal conditions, such as shows. Proper set-up of large speakers is just so hard, starting with the fact that they are much more sensitive to placement within a room. While also for small speakers there will be optimal positions, you can basically put them anywhere and they will still sound at least somewhat good.
Their sound OUTSIDE the room was better than most of the other speakers IN their rooms!!!
Now, that REALLY is freedom of placement ability LOL.
 

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