Warped Records - What is the 'best' cure?

[MylesBAstor]

HI Phil,
Well, that's not quite true. I do have 3 turntables but only two have the ET arms, the Nova and the Oracle. My third turntable is a Thorens TD125 with a Graham 2.2 Deluxe arm. I use the Thorens to audition new to me used records where the condition is unknown. I don't like using my expensive cartridges for what is essentially utility work. The cartridge I use on the Thorens is the Audio Technica OC9/II. The Graham was originally bought for the Oracle but after several months I decided that a new ET2.5 was the answer. That has turned out to be true but the Graham is still a very nice arm.

And yes, I do like the ET2.5's a lot. I don't know any other arm I would choose over them. In spite of their good reputation, I think they re underrated.

It's nice to meet another ET user here. Some people claim that the ET arms are difficult. That has not been my experience at all. I've had exactly zero troubles with them.

What has your experience been?

Sparky

I think that you're reaping the benefits of those of us who used the ET years ago All the bugs have been ironed out!

 

[MylesBAstor]

Hi Sparky,

Yes, some people have really shunned air bearing arms altogether here. And that is because our climate is very hot and humid and also produces so much dust inside a room. By and large, my ET2 is ok, knock on wood. I started initially with a Yamato aquarium pump because the dealer said I could save some money but not buying an ET2 pump. But the thing is darned noisy I decided to built a steel hatch to muff it down. It worked. Then a friend gave me an ET2 original pump because he virtually destroyed his ET2 arm and had no use for both. That is what I'm using now. Other than constant cleaning and checking the level, my experience has been quite smooth. On a handful of records with small small dead wax, the arm sometimes skip at those inner points but those occasions are very rare. Theoretically, I feel, that is best way to trace the LPs, straight line and without friction.

Having played with both types of arms, agree in principle with the statement that air bearing linear tracking arms like the ET/Rockport/Air Tangent/Kuzma/Forsell/VoyagerVersa and several others are the way to go. But all air bearing arms, no matter how tiny the gap (and say the best one can get is 1/10^4 inch) are still not the equal of a pivoted arms when it comes to rigidity or transfer of energy out of the arm and thus the low can tends to suffer in comparison to a pivoted arm. In addition, there's the issue of vertical vs horizontal mass of the arm. Finally there's the issue of arm length--that has a great bearing (NPI) on how the arm deals with warps eg. the shorter the arm, the worse the problem.

Where I find the straight line trackers to really excel though in in the upper octaves, resolution and retrieval of ambient space. No pivoted arm I've heard comes close though the longer 12 inch arms come the closest.

 

[karma]

Having played with both types of arms, agree in principle with the statement that air bearing linear tracking arms like the ET/Rockport/Air Tangent/Kuzma/Forsell/VoyagerVersa and several others are the way to go. But all air bearing arms, no matter how tiny the gap (and say the best one can get is 1/10^4 inch) are still not the equal of a pivoted arms when it comes to rigidity or transfer of energy out of the arm and thus the low can tends to suffer in comparison to a pivoted arm. In addition, there's the issue of vertical vs horizontal mass of the arm. Finally there's the issue of arm length--that has a great bearing (NPI) on how the arm deals with warps eg. the shorter the arm, the worse the problem.

Where I find the straight line trackers to really excel though in in the upper octaves, resolution and retrieval of ambient space. No pivoted arm I've heard comes close though the longer 12 inch arms come the closest.

HI Miles,
I'm not sure what time frame you are speaking about. I understand the original ET arm had significant problems but I have never seen one. The ET2 was a major revision and largely has remained unchanged since its introduction. The main upgrades have been the arm wands where there are now several different types and the optional high pressure bearing manifold. I bought my original ET2 in about 1990. Since then I upgraded to the high pressure manifold. My new ET2.5 has all the upgrades including the carbon fiber arm wand.

The stock air pump runs at very low pressure, about 2.5 PSI. I have been through several different pumps attempting to jump the pressure using the high pressure manifold. Finally, I decided to bite the bullet and use a shop air compressor. Currently, the pressure measured at the manifold is 28 PSI. It could be higher but it is a trade off between pressure and compressor duty cycle. 28 PSI is the compromise I chose.

With each jump in pressure, the bass performance improved. Is it as good as the best pivoted arm? I'm not sure but it is very good. As for the masses, I have not had any problems. Remember, I use a vacuum turntable where warps are nicely flattened out. So, vertical mass is not an issue. Horizontal mass is only an issue with off center holes of which I have few.

While I agree with your points, I don't agree they are problems. I think your points are mostly theoretical without practical consequences. After all, if I can't hear them, they ain't there in my book.

Further, I have done testing that indicates the tangential geometry is superior. I don't have time to go into it now but it will be the subject of a future post.

The biggest problem I see is finding a good place for the pump or compressor. It's not trivial.

Sparky

 

[karma]

HI All,
Miles, I'd like to expand a little on my reply above. I was being a little self-serving with my reply. I think your points are good ones. One reason I have not had trouble with the vertical mass of the ET2 arms is I have very few warp problems. Part of the reason is I don't have many warped records. At least, not badly warped. The other part is the vacuum turntable which makes most warps a moot point. So, the ET2.5 on my Sota does not experience warps very often.

I do have an Oracle Delphi V which does not have a vacuum feature with an ET2.5 mounted. On this table, the ET2.5 does experience warps. It actually does very well and I don't see it as a problem. But, it's possible I will see a problem in the future. So far, so good. At this point I don't see the vertical mass of the ET2.5 to be a problem.

So, I ask you, have you actually experienced the ET arms when warps were too severe to track cleanly? Or, are you repeating a WEB myth? I'd like to know.

Sparky

 

[MylesBAstor]

HI All,
Miles, I'd like to expand a little on my reply above. I was being a little self-serving with my reply. I think your points are good ones. One reason I have not had trouble with the vertical mass of the ET2 arms is I have very few warp problems. Part of the reason is I don't have many warped records. At least, not badly warped. The other part is the vacuum turntable which makes most warps a moot point. So, the ET2.5 on my Sota does not experience warps very often.

I do have an Oracle Delphi V which does not have a vacuum feature with an ET2.5 mounted. On this table, the ET2.5 does experience warps. It actually does very well and I don't see it as a problem. But, it's possible I will see a problem in the future. So far, so good. At this point I don't see the vertical mass of the ET2.5 to be a problem.

So, I ask you, have you actually experienced the ET arms when warps were too severe to track cleanly? Or, are you repeating a WEB myth? I'd like to know.

Sparky

Actually wasn't referring to the ET but other linear tracking, air bearing arms with short arm

 

[rockitman]

I use a TT Weights outer perimeter ring. The 2.2lb super ring. It takes care of 99% of edge warp issues (at least for me so far). It also makes my table sound better. Disregard this advice if your table is a suspended design..then YMMV.