Visit to Marc C.'s (SpiritOfMusic's) House in England

[Lagonda]

Higher frequencies seem fine. I actually think I've moved more to diffusion with somewhat less absorption. Somewhat less bass attenuation.
Milan, Bill serves up the beer when I visit him...he's already doing more than enough, I can't ask for more!

You should spend a couple of hundred on a app and a good microphone, it would save you in the long run Marc. Are your end walls a layer of sheet rock before the brick wall ? What is on the side walls ? Is it brick, or roof tile ?
AudioTools is good !

Studio Six Digital – Professional audio analysis tools

studiosixdigital.com

 

[spiritofmusic]

Front wall is plasterboard battened to original brick. Eaves are Welsh slate/plasterboard. Side walls are plasterboard.

 

[Lagonda]

You probably have a solid bass re-enforcement from the front wall, and some level of suck-out from side walls. How high are your subs dialed up compared to your old room ?

 

[spiritofmusic]

I have them much less intrusively here.
45Hz and level 5/10 in London.
39Hz and 2.5/10 here.

 

[pjwd]

Yes, if you take out a lot of high frequency energy from the room , the bass will be more dominating. Don't forget that you have dialed in your subs for a different room response. You should measure your room before building bass absorbers, i am sure Bill could lend you proper equipment.

Hi lagonda
The reflectors marc has put in so far would only have a small absorbtive effect ... they are more to redirect the first and second reflections away from listener plus avoid noncorrelating reflections hitting the listner .. the bass traps are targeted at low frequency only and they are to reduce reverb times rather than change the bass response
Its possible that any part of the room envelope is acting as a membrane asborber and as I understand it not really possible to correct for...other than a rebuild
But you are right in that you dont want to enhace it by traps of the same frequency ... but again hard to target them precisely
So its a trade off as usual ... a modest quantity of bass trap will almost certainly clear up the reverb and if no suckouts are currently heard its pretty unlikely they will be heard after.
Measurement can be revealing.. or confusing .. you really have to know how to drive that stuff to isolate causes and avoid rabbitholes
But if Marcs up for it...

Phil

 

[spiritofmusic]

I'm not a measurements kinda guy. I prefer to play it by ear on a date rather than check the girl's CV lol.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I had been using the GIK absorber panels in conjunction with the new PETs install. Have just removed the GIKs, and a hint of over damping is eliminated. Looks like my GIK days are behind me.

 

[Lagonda]

I'm not a measurements kinda guy. I prefer to play it by ear on a date rather than check the girl's CV lol.

Always good to get a baseline for a room, with some measurements, you don't have do everything by measurement but don't forget that a lot of what is happening in the bass region has been adjusted by yourself by ear too.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Sure Milan, undoubtedly there's a lot of wisdom in your words. This room seems to really respond unambiguously good, or bad, to changes. As opposed to my old room that was in retrospect resolutely coarse sounding in many respects.
As things stand, I'm able to discern positives and negatives pretty easily by ear. I've spent my final budget for acoustics treatments now, and I'm confident I've got a good outcome. On the basis of dramatic uptick in bass upon filling my floor hatch a year ago, I'm super confident my forthcoming corner bass traps will be a success.
Blue58 has a standing invite here. He'll be the first to let me know if I'm totally deluded.

 

[Lagonda]

Sure Milan, undoubtedly there's a lot of wisdom in your words. This room seems to really respond unambiguously good, or bad, to changes. As opposed to my old room that was in retrospect resolutely coarse sounding in many respects.
As things stand, I'm able to discern positives and negatives pretty easily by ear. I've spent my final budget for acoustics treatments now, and I'm confident I've got a good outcome. On the basis of dramatic uptick in bass upon filling my floor hatch a year ago, I'm super confident my forthcoming corner bass traps will be a success.
Blue58 has a standing invite here. He'll be the first to let me know if I'm totally deluded.

I know from personal experience how adjustments to subwoofer made by ear alone can take you of course. Knowing what your room is adding or subtracting to the equation first helps a lot, sometimes its as simple as reinforcing a side wall with MDF. You know i have done some crazy stuff to my room, none of it really expensive

 

[spiritofmusic]

Milan, there's a definite possibility measurements could get me a better outcome. My main subs settings OCD was in my old apartment where I had to keep artificially boosting subs output to compensate for suck outs and harsh interfering reflections...a nearly square and cuboid space, cursed by acres of glass, concrete and hardwood, effectively 10 corners, meant an almost untreatable acoustic.
Here, despite my room size being unwieldy and descending eaves potentially being the joker in the pack, I've now got a moderate geometric space, figuratively a Rothko, to an apparent chaotic Pollock, or absolutely dire Tracey Emin "My Bed" lol.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Lockdown restrictions easing in UK.
That means two main positives
...getting down the pub with friends and family
...and meeting up with audiophile compatriots, to see how constructive they've been with their systems during the Age Of Isolation.

So, at the weekend I visit Blue58 to make my third audition of his Extreme-based system.
And next month I revisit Audiophile Bill to take in his further adventures with bespoke horns and a few analog surprises I know he'll throw in.

I feel really lucky to have them both as friends, both really interesting and generous people with great takes on the hobby as well, and both keep me on the straight and narrow when I become prone to too much self satisfaction with my sound. I really value their opinions.

 

[stretchneck]

Hi Marc - shared some discussions with you previously. Like you say, with lockdown easing there is definitely more opportunity to share listening with others.

I’d be happy to welcome others into my home for demos (Linkwitz lx521) and potentially take some of my equipment to other peoples houses so they can compare it in their own systems.

Is there a thread for people in the UK?

Did you ever manage to get a demo of the Holo May from your local dealer? (Who are?)

Gavin (Oxford, UK)

 

[spiritofmusic]

My streaming (mis)adventures on the back burner again. Not sure the best way to promote the idea of visits, I can't see myself visiting many systems in future, other than my nearest and dearest audio friends.

 

[pjwd]

Hi Marc - shared some discussions with you previously. Like you say, with lockdown easing there is definitely more opportunity to share listening with others.

I’d be happy to welcome others into my home for demos (Linkwitz lx521) and potentially take some of my equipment to other peoples houses so they can compare it in their own systems.

Is there a thread for people in the UK?

Did you ever manage to get a demo of the Holo May from your local dealer? (Who are?)

Gavin (Oxford, UK)

Hi Gavin
Great speaker!...... are you running minidsp , convolution filters in server or the the active linkwitz xover
Phil

 

[stretchneck]

Hi Phil - I use ASP as it makes it easier to choose whatever DAC you like beforehand.

I love the LX521’s, but the fact that they need 6-10 channels of amplification can be a real pain. I’d love a simple 2 channel solution, but so far the only speakers I’ve heard that give a similar experience would be something like Wilson Sasha DAW (££££!). I did try a pair of Watt / Puppy’s in my house, but the drivers where old / soggy and just couldn’t keep up with the newer seas units in the LX521.

I’d like some more experiences - listening to other peoples systems really helped me.

 

[pjwd]

Hi Phil - I use ASP as it makes it easier to choose whatever DAC you like beforehand.

I love the LX521’s, but the fact that they need 6-10 channels of amplification can be a real pain. I’d love a simple 2 channel solution, but so far the only speakers I’ve heard that give a similar experience would be something like Wilson Sasha DAW (££££!). I did try a pair of Watt / Puppy’s in my house, but the drivers where old / soggy and just couldn’t keep up with the newer seas units in the LX521.

I’d like some more experiences - listening to other peoples systems really helped me.

For what its worth I think going away from dipole will be hard once you are familiar with them and the LX521 is a pretty good example.
You could always get a secondhand pair of stereo amps and some hypex ncores for bass to improve quality.
A buddy has that speaker and is running acourate convoluted filters through a merging happi dac and it sounds spectacular. He is upgrading amps to all ncore with one amp per driver which should also improve it.
A bit of a learning curve and no analogue but aside from that jolly good.
Sorry for thread invasiom marc
Phil

 

[stretchneck]

Anyone here compared Hugo TT2 (my current DAC) against some of the other, perhaps slightly rarer examples. e.g Lab12?

 

[spiritofmusic]

Final acoustics change here, and its proved worth the wait. Just spent a couple of hours cutting pallets of sheep's wool/composite binder into 75mm slabs to build up 2 no. 1200x600x600 front corner bass traps to replace my existing GIK traps. These new traps faced w 1200x600x25 PET panels on room facing sides.
Initially I was a little unsure about the increase in bass extension that resulted. However it became apparent very soon that this wasn't an increase in bloat or fake hifi slam, but liberated articulation of bass lines and natural weight of bass. So more bass...more character, warmth and bassists' intent very apparent.
What has been a really pleasant uptick also is greater liberation of mids and treble energy and articulation.
Resulting in greater musical flow and transparency, just greater energy and joy in performances.
Yes, I'm making out more meaning in musical lines, but not in some fake hifi pinpoint way, just greater expression of the various tones and timbres in the music.
When I cast my mind back to how grey and monotone my system was back in London, a wall of sound type presentation, compared to how colourful, energetic and delicate my sound is today, I effectively have to blink and thank my lucky stars that a dream move to an idyll in the country, a fantastic blank canvas new room, has enabled me to engineer a whole new outcome, these final acoustics changes being the sweetest cherry on the cake I could ever have hoped for.

 

[pjwd]

Final acoustics change here, and its proved worth the wait. Just spent a couple of hours cutting pallets of sheep's wool/composite binder into 75mm slabs to build up 2 no. 1200x600x600 front corner bass traps to replace my existing GIK traps. These new traps faced w 1200x600x25 PET panels on room facing sides.
Initially I was a little unsure about the increase in bass extension that resulted. However it became apparent very soon that this wasn't an increase in bloat or fake hifi slam, but liberated articulation of bass lines and natural weight of bass. So more bass...more character, warmth and bassists' intent very apparent.
What has been a really pleasant uptick also is greater liberation of mids and treble energy and articulation.
Resulting in greater musical flow and transparency, just greater energy and joy in performances.
Yes, I'm making out more meaning in musical lines, but not in some fake hifi pinpoint way,
Final acoustics change here, and its proved worth the wait. Just spent a couple of hours cutting pallets of sheep's wool/composite binder into 75mm slabs to build up 2 no. 1200x600x600 front corner bass traps to replace my existing GIK traps. These new traps faced w 1200x600x25 PET panels on room facing sides.
Initially I was a little unsure about the increase in bass extension that resulted. However it became apparent very soon that this wasn't an increase in bloat or fake hifi slam, but liberated articulation of bass lines and natural weight of bass. So more bass...more character, warmth and bassists' intent very apparent.
What has been a really pleasant uptick also is greater liberation of mids and treble energy and articulation.
Resulting in greater musical flow and transparency, just greater energy and joy in performances.
Yes, I'm making out more meaning in musical lines, but not in some fake hifi pinpoint way, just greater expression of the various tones and timbres in the music.
When I cast my mind back to how grey and monotone my system was back in London, a wall of sound type presentation, compared to how colourful, energetic and delicate my sound is today, I effectively have to blink and thank my lucky stars that a dream move to an idyll in the country, a fantastic blank canvas new room, has enabled me to engineer a whole new outcome, these final acoustics changes being the sweetest cherry on the cake I could ever have hoped for.

Thats great Marc!
Its counter intuitive .. absorbing bass to get better bass but all you are doing is reducing the reverb time of very low fr ... hence cleaner bass and less masking of the remaining fr
Nice when practice matches theory
Phil