Visit to Marc C.'s (SpiritOfMusic's) House in England

[KeithR]

And I'd like to know what speakers can energise an 800 sq ft space off medium power SETs and sound full and saturated at lower volumes. I can't think of many other than my Zus except for horns or Voxativ full range Pi 9.87's.

Trenner & Friedl might be another idea and definitely SET friendly.

 

[KeithR]

Justin, it's Trios w BHs or no AGs in my room. Haven't you heard? Ked says anything less, and they're not horns.

iirc, he's never heard AGs with XD technology. its a whole new integration ballgame. the Duo Mezzos in particular for a room your size.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Keith, it doesn't matter to Ked. They're Duos, they're not Trios. End of.

 

[DaveyF]

DaveyF,
we're going to drag that dead horse past the finishing post to prove a point for Marc before sending them to the knacker's yard. Only then will he consider new speakers.

On the point of Mid-range density that Marc is enamoured with in the Zus, well, I just don't hear it and you are right in that there are many speakers that would be superior to Zu.
In fact a less efficient speaker would reveal less of the tube amp noise currently heard, albeit close up, with the Zu.

To add to Marc's woes is the constant buzz in the room from the 'giant' balanced transformer that I hear but Marc doesn't. I think my brain just notices these issues, I used to go crazy listening to CRT whine.

Cheers
Blue58

LOL!

Makes sense, I guess you guys on the other side of the pond have to pay an upfront charge to audition speakers in your home systems.
That’s the only thing I can think of that would make Marc hesitate to bring contenders into his room. Even IF the Harbeths aren’t to his taste, at least he could rule them out...and look for an alternative. Although, I strongly suspect that the 40.2’s may bowl him over. Many here have fallen prey to their charms.
Avant-garde, well not so much, lol.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Davey, auditions at home are hard. I remain sceptical that the Harbeths will saturate my space at low volumes, but I'm not averse to having my mind changed. Maybe it'll happen.

 

[DaveyF]

Marc, I guess it would depend on what you call 'saturate'? OTOH, the large Harbeths have easily filled a small concert hall with very impressive sound. That hall is far larger than your space. If anything, I would maybe question if these speakers are too large for your space! As to the ability to drive them with your NAT's...that is something you would have to try at home.
Have you ever heard Harbeth's? If not, even a quick trip to one of the several UK dealers might give you a very good insight; that's where I would start.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Davey, there's a dealer pretty convenient to me. Happy to check them out. I'll get back to you.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Also, when I say saturate, I mean the ability for the spkr not to sound blanched and castrated at late night listening levels.

I abs hate spkrs that have to be turned up to come alive.

I'm sure you can understand why Id feel an 86dB eff spkr in an 800 sq ft space off medium pwr tubes might not cut it in this regard.

I mean, a big reason I haven't gone further w Apogee considerations is their lowish efficiency as well.

 

[DaveyF]

Marc, great idea. BTW, do you happen to know what the actual power output is with your 211's? I know that with GM70's in your amp, the output is 60 watts/ch...more than sufficient to drive the Harbeth's. My friend drives the 40.2 to large room filling volume with 20 watts/ch. Nonetheless. this is something that you would need to consider..with any speaker in consideration. ( the synergy with your amps..unless you were to replace the amps )

 

[DaveyF]

Also, when I say saturate, I mean the ability for the spkr not to sound blanched and castrated at late night listening levels.

I abs hate spkrs that have to be turned up to come alive.

I'm sure you can understand why Id feel an 86dB eff spkr in an 800 sq ft space off medium pwr tubes might not cut it in this regard.

I mean, a big reason I haven't gone further w Apogee considerations is their lowish efficiency as well.

Apogee's... jeez were are talking about apples and oranges. Apogee's are a nightmare to drive! I wouldn't suggest Apogee's with your gear at all! The poor little NAT would be struggling to play without pure distortion...at a whisper- with those nasty things! Maybe if you owned a pair of huge weld able Krell's from the past..or maybe some other monster power ss amp, LOL. Harbeth's are like the easiest load in the world compared to Apogee's, LOL...and so are just about every other speaker ever made

 

[spiritofmusic]

Davey, I hear you, I hear you LOL.

 

[asiufy]

Marc,

If you want something substantially better than your Zus, then Harbeths are not it. They'll be pretty similar to your Zus, down to their obvious colorations and deficiencies. And they're inefficient to boot.

You're in Europe, so take advantage of that, and look for a used Avantgarde. I'm seeing Trios for 18k euro, and Duos for 11-12k. You will NOT find speakers more suitable to your musical taste than those, for these prices. And you'll still have all the flexibility in the world to choose your amps (or you might as well just keep the NATs).

Then, sell the Zus and invest some of that money with a dealer/acoustician, and have the Avantgardes properly installed/dialed to your room.

cheers,
Alex

 

[spiritofmusic]

Alex, say what you REALLY mean LOL.

I have had dozens of fantastic exposures to Duos over the last 4 years, culminating now w the exemplary Aqua Formula XHD/SGM.

So I know where you're coming from.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Re alternative amps, Pass Labs XA25 is right in the sweet spot.

 

[DaveyF]

Alex, I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I don’t think Harbeths sound at all like Zu’s...nor even close! While Harbeths, like all speakers have their faults, they are not particularly hard to drive and they are nowhere near as colored as Zu’s. I know you don’t like Harbeths, but for Marc and in his room with the kind of parameters that he is looking for, I think they are a definite option. Personally, you couldn’t give me a pair of the highly shouty AG’s at any price....perhaps you are right, Marc may like that sound. It sure is miles away from Zu’s, or for that matter Harbeths

 

[DaveyF]

Marc, if you have the budget, maybe go and listen to a pair of the new Alsyvox speakers. They are based on the Apogee theory ( a full range ribbon panel) and they are supposedly incredible. Much much easier to drive than the Apogee’s. I have personally not heard them, but a good friend, who’s ears I respect, thinks they are the best speaker he has ever heard!

 

[spiritofmusic]

Well Davey, I don't hear the AGs as shouty, or my Zus as particularly coloured.

I know my Zus v well, have got to know Barry's Duos pretty well too, and so will have good references to compare the Harbeths to.

I have my own personal reasons for not going down the Duos route more strongly despite liking a lot of what I hear at Barry's.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Davey, I'm afraid I haven't got €90k burning a hole in my pocket re Alsyvox.

And if Brexit pans out how I expect, I won't anytime soon.

Re Alsyvox, I've read a few comments now that the bass is a little recessed or reserved. This suggests that like Apogees, they need plenty of welly, despite having greater efficiency.

 

[asiufy]

Dave,

Even if I liked Harbeths, which I don't, they're not appropriate for the kind of music Marc enjoys. That's part of the reason why I don't like them, they don't do justice to 70s rock.

Marc,

Oh well, shame you have your personal reasons for not going AG, but all I can say is... your loss

cheers,
Alex

 

[DaveyF]

Dave,

Even if I liked Harbeths, which I don't, they're not appropriate for the kind of music Marc enjoys. That's part of the reason why I don't like them, they don't do justice to 70s rock.

Marc,

Oh well, shame you have your personal reasons for not going AG, but all I can say is... your loss

cheers,
Alex

Alex,
Agreed the smaller Harbeth models aren’t ideal for 70’s rock, but I think the big 40.2’s would be. Have you heard the current 40.2’s with rock?
Here’s another question, what’s truly ideal for 70’s rock?