Totaldac versus Rockna Wavedream?

[caesar]

You talking to me and my 101dB efficient spkrs, Caesar? Lol

Hi Spirit,
Not just you. Obviously, TotalDac is the DAC for the guy who has a taste for high-efficiency, emotional sound vs. the intellectualized, box speaker sound popular today.

But whereas Rockna would just "warm-up" the analytical box speaker system, I would also claim that TotalDac can go a long way of adding flesh and blood musicality to that type of system. YMMV

 

[spiritofmusic]

YMMV...has a phrase so summed up the high end?

 

[Skanda]

I have heard both Rockna and TotalDac in the same system. Don't remember the details or model numbers, possibly Rockna DreamWeaver and TotalDac 6.

Rockna has a nice warm sound. Guys looking for the lean-clean sound that is popular today among reviewers, who are pushing the flavor of the month, and those who want to hear every detail on the recording instead of the music should stay away from Rockna.

But for those who crave that emotionally wrenching quality from their high end audio listening experience, and enjoy high-efficiency speakers vs. audiophile vocabulary-laden, hard-to-drive box speakers with big SS and Lyra cartridges, TotalDac is a no brainer.

as a wavedream sig se owner, the totaldac is likely my next stop so this is great to read. @caesar , as a fellow symphonic line guy i know you got good taste! rockna + taiko + symphonic line is just a really amazing combination: "emotionally wrenching" and on magicos no less. i am lookinf forward to hearing the totaldac whenever i get a chance

 

[caesar]

as a wavedream sig se owner, the totaldac is likely my next stop so this is great to read. @caesar , as a fellow symphonic line guy i know you got good taste! rockna + taiko + symphonic line is just a really amazing combination: "emotionally wrenching" and on magicos no less. i am lookinf forward to hearing the totaldac whenever i get a chance

Hi Skanda,
Thanks. I am not usually a fan of box speakers, but Magico has really nailed it in the later generations. I have no doubt that your Magicos with Symphonic Line are a superb combination.

And yes, obviously listen to it if you get a chance, but I have no doubt that TotalDac will positively transform your system. I believe Wolf has the full TotalDac stack in his showroom.

 

[Skanda]

Hi Skanda,
Thanks. I am not usually a fan of box speakers, but Magico has really nailed it in the later generations. I have no doubt that your Magicos with Symphonic Line are a superb combination.

And yes, obviously listen to it if you get a chance, but I have no doubt that TotalDac will positively transform your system. I believe Wolf has the full TotalDac stack in his showroom.

without derailing this thread, do you have any experience with the lampi pacific? at it's price point and reputation it could offer a better alternative to the total dac as well

the rockna is really tough to beat esp because of the cost. i'd say, for my ears and my system, it does more than just warm up the sound - there's an air and fleshiness to the sound that wasn't there before. the taiko and SL build on this. the soulution preamp allows everything to remain dynamic and keeps from letting the image become too diffuse. now every part plays its role and works together so these isolated comments shouldnt be taken out of context - just how i "hear" and like to "break down" my system.

 

[lordcloud]

I have heard both Rockna and TotalDac in the same system. Don't remember the details or model numbers, possibly Rockna DreamWeaver and TotalDac 6.

Rockna has a nice warm sound. Guys looking for the lean-clean sound that is popular today among reviewers, who are pushing the flavor of the month, and those who want to hear every detail on the recording instead of the music should stay away from Rockna/QUOTE]

I've heard (read) almost exclusively the opposite when it comes to the Rockna. People that have heard it talk about its detail retrieval being on par with almost anything else they've ever heard, and above most in that regard.

 

[caesar]

Hi Lordcloud,

First, this is a subjective hobby, and no doubt some people will prefer Rockna to TotalDac; I wasn't one of them though.

And when I listened, I did not hear the Rockna model retrieve more detail than some of the popular analytical DACs that get raved about by intellectual-sound-liking reviewers and audiophiles. Based on what I heard, I would recommend those DACs instead of Rockna for their listening tastes, as I find Rockna very musical.

But detail retrieval aside, Rockna definitely did not have that wrenching emotional quality of the TotalDac. Among 4 or 5 guys listening, I don't think anyone chose Rockna over Totaldac. It was a wipe out.

 

[caesar]

without derailing this thread, do you have any experience with the lampi pacific? at it's price point and reputation it could offer a better alternative to the total dac as well

the rockna is really tough to beat esp because of the cost. i'd say, for my ears and my system, it does more than just warm up the sound - there's an air and fleshiness to the sound that wasn't there before. the taiko and SL build on this. the soulution preamp allows everything to remain dynamic and keeps from letting the image become too diffuse. now every part plays its role and works together so these isolated comments shouldnt be taken out of context - just how i "hear" and like to "break down" my system.

Hi Skanda,
Yes, Rockna is very good. I don't want to imply it's not....I have not heard the Lampi Pacific in my system. I'm kinda busy and it's a hassle to get one in house, and I don't want to deal with now.

Most other tube DACs I have heard provide a very rich, lifelike tone; but at times it may be too lush and syrupy - too much of a good thing. But tube dacs I have previously heard give up dynamics to non-tube DACs, big time.

I am very curious if this is the case with Lampi, maybe I'll try it one day... I actually started a thread on Lampi owners using reference SS preamps, similar situation as what you have, but no one bit on it...

I am a dynamics junkie, and I also need that lifelike tone for my realism triggers. So I wouldn't trade down on dynamics unless it's a small loss that an SS preamp can compensate for, and there are also a lot of other virtues, such as the lifelike tone...

The reality is that you should hear both the Lampi and TotalDac in your system. On some music you may prefer and one or the other... that's why the crazy guys in this hobby have multiple technologies to satisfy all of their fetishes...

 

[bonzo75]

"I am very curious if this is the case with Lampi, maybe I'll try it one day... I actually started a thread on Lampi owners using reference SS preamps, similar situation as what you have, but no one bit on it..."

Really? This has been covered so many times. Lampi users are using spectral, Soulution, and audionet stern plus Heisenberg. Audioquattr had dagostino with the Lampi and the TAD pre when he owned Magico, now he has moved to horns. Analog domain is the other one that works brilliant with it. Jazzhead and Howie have the Koda K10

 

[caesar]

I'm way behind on my reading and have not read those threads. Yes, I know, "search is my friend".

 

[dctom]

I use a Lampi GG with KR242s, they produce excellent dynamics. However the streamer/network can influence the sound including dynamics as much as the DAC. The GG has responded to bespoke streaming and network set up incredibly.

 

[bonzo75]

I use a Lampi GG with KR242s, they produce excellent dynamics. However the streamer/network can influence the sound including dynamics as much as the DAC. The GG has responded to bespoke streaming and network set up incredibly.

The Lampi with the 242 when done right has the highest dynamic range, nuance, inflection of any source that I have heard.

Currently the 242 is being used in systems with Ypsilon pre, lamm pre, audionet stern, Alieno, Koda k15, Soulution, and has also been used with analog domain, TAD, and Trinity preamps.

 

[Saleh84]

Caeser, I'm not sure which version of the rockna wavedream you have heard. Earlier they used to have an MSB manufactured r2r ladders. With the new 26 bit edition and the 27 bit signature ladder (like mine), i can assure you its not "warming things up", it just transparent as a clear window with lots of details, dynamics and dynamic range and spot on tonality. Coupled with NET, its many Notches better which speaks of source importance regardless which dac you are using. Recently according to skanda, with SGM extreme, its even much better.
I have not heard a total dac ever, but wish to know if the rockna you heard had the new in house modules or not (since few years back they took over the MSB ones). Inside it should say rd-1 for edition version, rd-0 for signature version, and even on screen at start up for a brief moment. The chassis has remained the same since wavedream launch by the way, with minor modifications. Its the guts which were upgraded, low profile kind of upgrade not in a big PR campaign style.
I might be biased to something that i already own, but prior to buying it, scattered all over the forums, I notice a general preference for rockna sound, the description seemed more like i wanted, an unbiased conversion from digital to analog. I wish to get to hear a total dac someday and compare, but the rockna was a very successful blind purchase for me at least ))

 

[Skanda]

i'm not going to mince words, what i'm currently hearing with the rockna and sgm extreme combo has a sense of density to the atmosphere and air that i've only heard on one system before: msb select 2 fed by an aurender -> ch l1 + x1 -> ch m1.1 -> stenheim alumine 3. to be honest that wasn't a set up i loved much but what i really noticed was that the air didn't just sound like a wide stage there was a palpability and thickness to the air between the instruments. it was pretty amazing and i'd been hunting after that for some time. i can confidently attribute this to msb as i've heard the msb before in a different system...that palpability wasn't the same but similar and i was earlier on in my audio journey so i don't think i was as drawn to it as i am now. at the time i was all about the details and ran away from gear described as rich - live and learn. (of course all parts of the system play a part and ch is exceptional at portraying the ambience, the msb was just adding that density and palpability)

on my system, rockna in NOS mode i.e. filter off gets there but i personally prefer the Hybrid filter more often for the extension and detail. it's great to be able to switch as when i want to listen to vocal heavy music and want to feel like the words are gut punching me with their density and delivery, i throw it on NOS mode. on some music it's too much of a good thing which is another reason why i use hybrid more often.

the rockna is an exceptional dac and easily bests any of the competitors in it's price range (DAVE comes to mind, for example). unfortunately, i haven't heard totaldac yet. msb is great but unless you're ponying up for a select 2 (or maybe the ref, i haven't had the pleasure of experiencing), i'd say save your dollars until you can spring for the big one. dcs, totally different sound, not really my preference but certainly high quality. i'd go so far as to say if you're after the dcs type sound, you'd probably prefer DAVE to rockna...but if you're after the select 2 type sound the rockna is a better bet. i'm biased to r2r it seems. lampi, specifically the pacific, is one i'd love to try as well.

 

[CKKeung]

i'm not going to mince words, what i'm currently hearing with the rockna and sgm extreme combo has a sense of density to the atmosphere and air that i've only heard on one system before: msb select 2 fed by an aurender -> ch l1 + x1 -> ch m1.1 -> stenheim alumine 3. to be honest that wasn't a set up i loved much but what i really noticed was that the air didn't just sound like a wide stage there was a palpability and thickness to the air between the instruments. it was pretty amazing and i'd been hunting after that for some time. i can confidently attribute this to msb as i've heard the msb before in a different system...that palpability wasn't the same but similar and i was earlier on in my audio journey so i don't think i was as drawn to it as i am now. at the time i was all about the details and ran away from gear described as rich - live and learn. (of course all parts of the system play a part and ch is exceptional at portraying the ambience, the msb was just adding that density and palpability)

on my system, rockna in NOS mode i.e. filter off gets there but i personally prefer the Hybrid filter more often for the extension and detail. it's great to be able to switch as when i want to listen to vocal heavy music and want to feel like the words are gut punching me with their density and delivery, i throw it on NOS mode. on some music it's too much of a good thing which is another reason why i use hybrid more often.

the rockna is an exceptional dac and easily bests any of the competitors in it's price range (DAVE comes to mind, for example). unfortunately, i haven't heard totaldac yet. msb is great but unless you're ponying up for a select 2 (or maybe the ref, i haven't had the pleasure of experiencing), i'd say save your dollars until you can spring for the big one. dcs, totally different sound, not really my preference but certainly high quality. i'd go so far as to say if you're after the dcs type sound, you'd probably prefer DAVE to rockna...but if you're after the select 2 type sound the rockna is a better bet. i'm biased to r2r it seems. lampi, specifically the pacific, is one i'd love to try as well.

Very nice sharing!
I am also a r2r fan.

 

[caesar]

Caeser, I'm not sure which version of the rockna wavedream you have heard. Earlier they used to have an MSB manufactured r2r ladders. With the new 26 bit edition and the 27 bit signature ladder (like mine), i can assure you its not "warming things up", it just transparent as a clear window with lots of details, dynamics and dynamic range and spot on tonality. Coupled with NET, its many Notches better which speaks of source importance regardless which dac you are using. Recently according to skanda, with SGM extreme, its even much better.
I have not heard a total dac ever, but wish to know if the rockna you heard had the new in house modules or not (since few years back they took over the MSB ones). Inside it should say rd-1 for edition version, rd-0 for signature version, and even on screen at start up for a brief moment. The chassis has remained the same since wavedream launch by the way, with minor modifications. Its the guts which were upgraded, low profile kind of upgrade not in a big PR campaign style.
I might be biased to something that i already own, but prior to buying it, scattered all over the forums, I notice a general preference for rockna sound, the description seemed more like i wanted, an unbiased conversion from digital to analog. I wish to get to hear a total dac someday and compare, but the rockna was a very successful blind purchase for me at least ))

Hi Saleh84,
Yes, I can try to find out which version it was. But the bottom line is what I heard from Rockna was excellent. Much better than other Euro Dacs I've heard before. And I am sure what you own is also excellent. However, as I mentioned, everyone who heard the comparo preferred the TotalDac sonic signature.. The owner of the Rockna will be getting a TotalDac when he saves enough sheckels...

But in the end, if you are enjoying what you got, keep enjoying it. But if you have the itch to try a TotalDac, definitely do.

It all comes down to if you are a sharpener or leveler. Here's a link to an excellent piece on these concepts: https://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/are_you_a_sharpener_or_a_leveler/index.html

Best of luck to you on your journey!

 

[skids929]

The question I have in all of this, is exactly how does a streamer add sonic benefits to a DAC over-and-above USB (properly implemented). Let's use Rockna as an example due to the obvious synergies in their streamers with their DACs. What is it about adding a streamer that improves the sonics of the dac? I am wrestling with whether to go up in the line and get a better version of a Rockna, or just add a streamer to a Wavelight DAC when it's released. Of the two options in consideration, want to learn the technical aspects of adding a steamer and benefits it provides over the widely used USB connection. I understand it removes the USB/Macbook from the chain, so ultimately am I just lowering the noise floor by adding the streamer and removing the Macbook? I also understand the easre of use a streamer can add and generally don't care about that since this is on my desk so streaming isn't a benefit here. I mainly want to know of the sonic benefits as a source component...Is it better than just moving up to a better dac (truly balanced for example) or are there considerable benefits to adding a complimentary streamer of the same brand as the dac.

I wish I could just audition this, but unfortunately don't have that opportunity to do that where I live with and due to the limited distribution of this brand.

 

[Saleh84]

As a general rule, almost any dedicated streamer would be better than your mac.
Also, its not the type of connection that makes the biggest difference, its the way the streamer is designed first. Its circuits, power supply, etc.

I have tried USB, AES, Spdif and I2s. From same streamer to same dac, they will sound slightly different. I stick with I2s with NET and wavedream dac as it sounded the best to my ears. From my own experience - and i could be worng, Usb tend to sound "bigger" than spdif/AES, but flatter and less 3d/ less focused. I2s kinda had the best of both worlds.

A streamer will have lower noise floor generally, correct. And that is not "noise" you could hear like static etc. It masks the music, like a smeared window sort of. A streamer will give u more music, less masking and a clearer window. Also, it will reclock, providing more musical, smoother playback. A laptop or a mac is only OK, but can't touch a dedicated streamer.

Hope that this helps!

 

[xcowdoc]

Hey Saleh,

I am glad that you chimed in. I was going to try usb between my Wavedream dac and NET server, but I got no sound from the dac. Is there something that you have to do in order to make usb work with the combo Rockna's? Thanks.

 

[Saleh84]

Certainly yes )
Usb in that case is coming from the PC board itself inside the NET. After you connect the USB cable, select USB input on the dac, go to roon sittings, audio tab. Select the USB output which must be showing by then as your active zone. Its different from the zone of other output on the FPGA board of the NET (you can see they are all grouped together except USB).