Totaldac d1-twelve VS CH Precision C1+X1

Thieliste

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Streaming high res files via ethernet on the Totaldac twelve and the CH combo, anyone compared ?
I know that some of you on this forum own the CH combo, any Totaldac d1-twelve owners ? please chime in.

Thieliste
 

jep123

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Streaming high res files via ethernet on the Totaldac twelve and the CH combo, anyone compared ?
I know that some of you on this forum own the CH combo, any Totaldac d1-twelve owners ? please chime in.

Thieliste

It is not easy to compare these solutions if you don't own them both or has heard them in the same system in the same room. I believe both are very good in their own way.

I have the CH D1, C1 and X1 and have no complaints :). But I cannot say that they are better than Totaldac. But if you are thinking about trading in your Hegel for any of these solutions I think you will experience a major upgrade. Nothing against Hegel of course, from what I have read they make excellent products.

JP
 

Thieliste

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Hi jep123 thanks for your response, well yes as you can see my system is very modest for now but hopefully this will change as i have the project to build a serious refefence system in a dedicated room like you have with acoustic treatment.
I will only keep the speakers and build a brand new system with them.
Gear that i'm considering are as follow : Aesthetix, Karan Acoustics, Dartzeel, Ypsilon and Dan D'agostino for the amp-preamp part.
For the source : Totaldac and CH Precision.

Can you please tell me how the CH sound ?
Isn't it too analytical ? or on the other hand transparent but smooth and liquid.
 

flyer

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Hello Thieliste, I used to have the Totaldac Twelve with integrated server and now own the Aries Cerat Kassandra with tube output stage. I didn't compare to CH though.

For your room acoustics, check out the SMT stuff. Do away with all the absorbers and reduce your volume up to 8 dB (i.e. more than four times less power required from your amps!) to get the same SPL + a true enveloping sound combined with excellent focus and natural timbres (if system allows of course).
 

Thieliste

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Hi flyer, what made you change from the Totaldac Twelve to the Aries Cerat Kassandra ?
Did you find the Kassandra much better ?
 

jep123

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Hi jep123 thanks for your response, well yes as you can see my system is very modest for now but hopefully this will change as i have the project to build a serious refefence system in a dedicated room like you have with acoustic treatment.
I will only keep the speakers and build a brand new system with them.
Gear that i'm considering are as follow : Aesthetix, Karan Acoustics, Dartzeel, Ypsilon and Dan D'agostino for the amp-preamp part.
For the source : Totaldac and CH Precision.

Can you please tell me how the CH sound ?
Isn't it too analytical ? or on the other hand transparent but smooth and liquid.

Great plans you have for Your system!
In my opinion and in my system the CH components sounds transparent and liquid, not at all too analytical or "cold". They are extremely revealing and honest, what you "feed them" with is what you get. My CD`s now sound differently and significantly better than ever before, my connection to the music is on a total different level. And I used to have an expensive dac before as well, no brand name revealed :). The CH Products are MUCH better, and even more expensive.... But I decided to go "all in".

I am not using the CH C1 with the Ethernet streaming option, I use it with the Aurender and the CH D1 CD/SACD transport. The Ethernet option is suppose to sound even better than the USB based system I am using, I will upgrade the C1 later. I am in no hurry. Build quality and feel is very high with the CH products and their CH app (Android) is very good as well. You can control all components with it.

This is not to say that CH is "better" than Totaldac, but this is based on my experience.

JP
 

flyer

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Great plans you have for Your system!
In my opinion and in my system the CH components sounds transparent and liquid, not at all too analytical or "cold". They are extremely revealing and honest, what you "feed them" with is what you get. My CD`s now sound differently and significantly better than ever before, my connection to the music is on a total different level. And I used to have an expensive dac before as well, no brand name revealed :). The CH Products are MUCH better, and even more expensive.... But I decided to go "all in".

I am not using the CH C1 with the Ethernet streaming option, I use it with the Aurender and the CH D1 CD/SACD transport. The Ethernet option is suppose to sound even better than the USB based system I am using, I will upgrade the C1 later. I am in no hurry. Build quality and feel is very high with the CH products and their CH app (Android) is very good as well. You can control all components with it.

This is not to say that CH is "better" than Totaldac, but this is based on my experience.

JP

Let me say that I had no difficulty switching from my Twelve to the Kassandra, on the contrary although I very much enjoyed the Twelve for a long time. The fact the latter does not have an output stage did penalize it somehow I felt when I started to listen to the Kassandra. Now Totaldac does offer an upgrade, adding an output stage making it the Twelve SE version, but that costs again 3000 EUR and the outcome was uncertain. Not mentioning the fact the Twelve SE would by then have costed almost double the cost of the Kassandra (although the latter does not have a server built-in I must admit).

Disclaimer: I am a distributor for Aries Cerat but, as you may have read in other posts, each component needs to 'deserve' its place in the chain, I don't adopt blindly nor lightly what I have in my system as I want to be able to look a customer in the eye and be convinced of what I am saying. Because I am doing the distributorship as an accessory to my normal job and hence it started as being done to 'lighten' the financial burden on my passion...
The fact that my whole chain is now composed of Aries Cerat (or will soon be), does not only mean that I had to take a lot of time and effort to do comparative analyses etc (which I actually hate doing), but it kinda confirms that Stavros Danos, the owner of Aries Cerat, is one of those genius in the audio world that seems to have so much skill and passion that everything he decides to take on, is an instant hit.

Having found a very good server at a very very decent price makes me have best of both worlds.
 

Thieliste

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flyer thanks for your input, i now understand why you went the Aries Cerat route.
jep123 i see that you have the Absolare int amp, which volume control do you use the one from C1 or the Absolare one ?
Usually with the C1 they say its better to connect directly to stereo amp or mono blocks and uses the C1's volume control.
By the way the Absolare is an outstanding int amp, i did audition it in Paris in november with the full Totaldac d1-twelve + server, it sounded very analog and organic.
 

jep123

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flyer thanks for your input, i now understand why you went the Aries Cerat route.
jep123 i see that you have the Absolare int amp, which volume control do you use the one from C1 or the Absolare one ?
Usually with the C1 they say its better to connect directly to stereo amp or mono blocks and uses the C1's volume control.
By the way the Absolare is an outstanding int amp, i did audition it in Paris in november with the full Totaldac d1-twelve + server, it sounded very analog and organic.

I use the Absolare amp as volume control. And yes, the amp is outstanding. I have the Signature edition. It sounds just like you are saying and it is very powerful as well. And I like the concept of an integrated amp. I think that the Absolare easily competes with a lot of expensive separates, it is that good.

JP
 

VPN

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Hi jep123 thanks for your response, well yes as you can see my system is very modest for now but hopefully this will change as i have the project to build a serious refefence system in a dedicated room like you have with acoustic treatment.
I will only keep the speakers and build a brand new system with them.
Gear that i'm considering are as follow : Aesthetix, Karan Acoustics, Dartzeel, Ypsilon and Dan D'agostino for the amp-preamp part.
For the source : Totaldac and CH Precision.

Can you please tell me how the CH sound ?
Isn't it too analytical ? or on the other hand transparent but smooth and liquid.

Hello Thieliste,

Considering your list of potential preamps, I suggest you include the CH L1 in your must audition list. I have read more than once that the CH C1 sounds best wth the CH L1 as the preamp, and that the CH L1 is one the the top preamps in existence.

Cheers,

VPN
 

Legolas

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Dec 27, 2015
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Streaming high res files via ethernet on the Totaldac twelve and the CH combo, anyone compared ?
I know that some of you on this forum own the CH combo, any Totaldac d1-twelve owners ? please chime in.

Thieliste

Did you ever resolve your choice? My view would be go for a good R-2R DAC with tubes like an Audio Note DAC 5 or the Kassandre DAC. It will IMO balance your system and you can tune the sound a bit with tube rolling in the DAC.

I have had all SS before and was never totally at ease / happy. I prefer tubes in the DAC or pre-amplifier for timbre and realism with a bit of warmth, solid state power amp for dynamics and bass extension.

Good luck.
 

Thieliste

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Aug 31, 2014
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Did you ever resolve your choice? My view would be go for a good R-2R DAC with tubes like an Audio Note DAC 5 or the Kassandre DAC. It will IMO balance your system and you can tune the sound a bit with tube rolling in the DAC.

I have had all SS before and was never totally at ease / happy. I prefer tubes in the DAC or pre-amplifier for timbre and realism with a bit of warmth, solid state power amp for dynamics and bass extension.

Good luck.

I will most likely purchase the Ypsilon combo : PST 100 MKll + Aelius ll monos hybrid design.
Therefore the CH Precision C1 + X1 should be a good choice.
But i will go audition the Aries Cerat Kassandra before making a final decision.
 

bonzo75

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I will most likely purchase the Ypsilon combo : PST 100 MKll + Aelius ll monos hybrid design.
Therefore the CH Precision C1 + X1 should be a good choice.
But i will go audition the Aries Cerat Kassandra before making a final decision.

3 of us preferred the AR Ref 10 to the Ypsilon PST Mk 1 - it wasn't even close. The Aelius has weak drive compared to good SS amps, and if you get the CH digital, let me know, I will come over with the Lampi for a compare
 

Legolas

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3 of us preferred the AR Ref 10 to the Ypsilon PST Mk 1 - it wasn't even close. The Aelius has weak drive compared to good SS amps, and if you get the CH digital, let me know, I will come over with the Lampi for a compare

You sure about the Aelius? Have you heard it. If yes, maybe the speakers were a bad match (not very efficient). The review below does rate the C1 and Ypsilon combo. I had a full day demo with the C1 on my Stax 009s and Carbon amp, and it is good, but a bit bright for my tastes, bit too cold and 'hifi'. Also the C1 really needs the Ethernet board (6K) to sound it's best, and the X1 lifts it higher, but then more money. I would hedge a best that the Kassandre is more my taste, though I have no idea how or when I will even hear it. If the Thiels are quite transparent then the C1 IMO might be a bad match? TBH maybe the Thiels would be a bottleneck on a 25K+ front end. Something to consider anyway.

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue75/ypsilon_aelius.htm
 

Thieliste

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The Aelius didn't have any trouble driving my CS 3.7's at all, they had a very good grip on them.
And just to let you know after my Ypsilon home demo the distributor went to another client's place to demo the Ypsilon combo on his Maggies 20.7 and suprisingly the Aelius dis awsome on the 20.7 and the client bought the Ypsilon combo.
I think there is no rules, you just have to try the gear on your own speakers to know if it will work out for you.
Concerning the CH C1 i will most probably try it out in my system before buying.
 

bonzo75

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The Aelius didn't have any trouble driving my CS 3.7's at all, they had a very good grip on them.
And just to let you know after my Ypsilon home demo the distributor went to another client's place to demo the Ypsilon combo on his Maggies 20.7 and suprisingly the Aelius dis awsome on the 20.7 and the client bought the Ypsilon combo.
I think there is no rules, you just have to try the gear on your own speakers to know if it will work out for you.
Concerning the CH C1 i will most probably try it out in my system before buying.

You have to compare - it sounds fine until you put it against a good compare.
 

bonzo75

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You sure about the Aelius? Have you heard it. If yes, maybe the speakers were a bad match (not very efficient). The review below does rate the C1 and Ypsilon combo. I had a full day demo with the C1 on my Stax 009s and Carbon amp, and it is good, but a bit bright for my tastes, bit too cold and 'hifi'. Also the C1 really needs the Ethernet board (6K) to sound it's best, and the X1 lifts it higher, but then more money. I would hedge a best that the Kassandre is more my taste, though I have no idea how or when I will even hear it. If the Thiels are quite transparent then the C1 IMO might be a bad match? TBH maybe the Thiels would be a bottleneck on a 25K+ front end. Something to consider anyway.

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue75/ypsilon_aelius.htm

Yes i heard it with the Soundlabs and compared it with Luxman m900u on the Vivid G1. Also heard it in another Vivid system I don't see the point of hybrids except for a tough load, so I tried them on tough loads. The bass and drive were lacking on ups and downs of the symphony

The Luxman was better on every parameter. Baritone chest, orchestral, fullness of instruments, soundstage, etc. The PST 1 was compared with Dartzeel and AR Ref 10 with Constellation power amp and Wilson Alexias by 3 of us
 

jep123

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The Aelius didn't have any trouble driving my CS 3.7's at all, they had a very good grip on them.
And just to let you know after my Ypsilon home demo the distributor went to another client's place to demo the Ypsilon combo on his Maggies 20.7 and suprisingly the Aelius dis awsome on the 20.7 and the client bought the Ypsilon combo.
I think there is no rules, you just have to try the gear on your own speakers to know if it will work out for you.
Concerning the CH C1 i will most probably try it out in my system before buying.

It is all about system matching. I use the CH gear with the Absolare and Kaiser Kawero speakers and I have no issues with "dry and hard " sound. I find the CH gear very neutral and musical and yes, the X1 does improve the sound of the C1 and D1. But used in the "right systems" the CH gear as far from cold and analytical. Then there must be issues in another parts of the chain.

But taste can of course not be discussed so a try out is mandatory.

JP
 

Legolas

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I will most likely purchase the Ypsilon combo : PST 100 MKll + Aelius ll monos hybrid design.
Therefore the CH Precision C1 + X1 should be a good choice.
But i will go audition the Aries Cerat Kassandra before making a final decision.

I would be most interested in your feedback on the Kassandre DAC v C1.
 

bonzo75

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I would be most interested in your feedback on the Kassandre DAC v C1.

Don't think he is comparing, is he? Reads like two independent auditions
 

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