tima's DIY RCM

[shadowlight]

I clean records in batch so it's possible that I might not get to the next batch until say two weeks from now. Should I leave the pump running so the water circulates or will I be ok to turn it off after I am done cleaning? What I have been doing so far is check the ppm, run the motor 30 minutes or so, check the ppm to make sure that solution is still good before cleaning the water.

Let me know if I can improve on my process.

 

[tima]

I clean records in batch so it's possible that I might not get to the next batch until say two weeks from now. Should I leave the pump running so the water circulates or will I be ok to turn it off after I am done cleaning? What I have been doing so far is check the ppm, run the motor 30 minutes or so, check the ppm to make sure that solution is still good before cleaning the water.

Let me know if I can improve on my process.

Hi - I turn on my pump/filter maybe 20-30 minutes before cleaning a batch of records, then turn it off when I'm done. If you're using the Little Giant pump, I don't think it is designed to run continuously for a week or two. Put a cover over your tank between cleanings.

I check the TDS before and after each batch and record that along with the number of records cleaned. When you fill a tank with fresh solution, note how clear it looks - along with low ppm that's what you want at the start of each session.

 

[shadowlight]

Thank you @tima

 

[tima]

There's been some discussion on using Hepistat or other quat to inhibit microbial activity in solution kept over time. I choose not to use such because Hepistat raises the TDS count in fresh solution. But - I learned something new about Ilford Ilfotol - it contains a biocide which should do that job. So Ilfotol has both anti-static and anti-biological properties.

 

[tima]

Neil Antin released the 2nd Edition of his compendium of information on cleaning vinyl records. As my understanding of ultrasonic cleaning grows, I used edition 1 as a aide and guide. This is a worthwhile document to peruse - it is long, somewhat technical and written by an ex-Navy expert. Highly recommended.

Precision Aqueous Cleaning of Vinyl Records - 2nd Edition
by Neil Antin

 

[dminches]

Tim, when can expect the Cliff Notes version?

 

[Hi-FiGuy]

Neil Antin released the 2nd Edition of his compendium of information on cleaning vinyl records. As my understanding of ultrasonic cleaning grows, I used edition 1 as a aide and guide. This is a worthwhile document to peruse - it is long, somewhat technical and written by an ex-Navy expert. Highly recommended.

Precision Aqueous Cleaning of Vinyl Records - 2nd Edition
by Neil Antin

thats insane!!! but i downloaded it lol

 

[Loheswaran]

Oh wow - brilliant - thanks. It reminds me of the thesis written by Bugge for professor Dinsdale for fluid damping - the precursor to the Townshend rock turntable

 

[Mikem53]

Good day Tim.. what a great write up! I haven’t owned a TT in over 2 decades, but enjoyed reading your experiences and DIY approach. I will pass this along to my vinyl addicted friends.

 

[advanced101]

My cheap Ultrasonic cleaner’s valve was corroding. Took the opportunity to move to an Elmasonic P60H, had to get a new filter too. Picked up a Watts 0.2 micron. I had to make a new stand for the rotisserie, used some scrap walnut and maple. Hopefully will have everything together in the next week and show the finished setup.

 

[tima]

My cheap Ultrasonic cleaner’s valve was corroding. Took the opportunity to move to an Elmasonic P60H, had to get a new filter too. Picked up a Watts 0.2 micron. I had to make a new stand for the rotisserie, used some scrap walnut and maple. Hopefully will have everything together in the next week and show the finished setup.

How cool is that! I'm very interested to see your finished unit, with tank, spindle and motor. An Elma P-series should be a good tank for you with its dual frequency cavitation. How many records do you plan to clean at the same time?

 

[tima]

Speaking of Elmasonic - they have two newer series of ultrasonic tanks available with prices lower than the P-series. There is the EP120H and the S120H. The EP-series is the economy version with a shorter warranty. Both have the same dimensions as the P120H and many of the same features (drain, timer, heater, etc.) but they both operate at a single frequency (37kHz). Both will work well with the excellent Kuzma RD rotisserie. In my experience all the Elmasonic tanks can be had for considerably less than msrp.

 

[advanced101]

How cool is that! I'm very interested to see your finished unit, with tank, spindle and motor. An Elma P-series should be a good tank for you with its dual frequency cavitation. How many records do you plan to clean at the same time?

The choice to go with the P60H, versus 120H, was due to my cleaning habits. I clean a batch of 10 or so records every 2 weeks. At that interval, I use fresh water every time. Since my wife does the food shopping she gets me distilled water. I wanted to keep the max I needed to under 2 gallons since it is easy for her to pick me up a 2 gallon jug. I usually clean one record at a time while manually pre-cleaning with AIVS fluids on my 16.5. I may start doing two records at a time since the P60H has dual frequencies. I am thinking of running 8 mins @ 37KHz and 8 minutes @ the higher frequency. My rotisserie operates at 0.5 rpm, so 8 minutes is 4 revolutions.

I am curious about the water temperature, something I will keep track of. The temperature with my older cleaner, which was around double the size rose to 34C. With the new smaller cleaner, and running dual cycles I will have to keep track of that. I am comfortable up to about 33-35C. If I go higher I will add a radiator, the water cooled computer type to the loop. Then I have to ensure I can maintain pressure through the system, fun stuff.

 

[tima]

The choice to go with the P60H, versus 120H, was due to my cleaning habits. I clean a batch of 10 or so records every 2 weeks. At that interval, I use fresh water every time. Since my wife does the food shopping she gets me distilled water. I wanted to keep the max I needed to under 2 gallons since it is easy for her to pick me up a 2 gallon jug. I usually clean one record at a time while manually pre-cleaning with AIVS fluids on my 16.5. I may start doing two records at a time since the P60H has dual frequencies. I am thinking of running 8 mins @ 37KHz and 8 minutes @ the higher frequency. My rotisserie operates at 0.5 rpm, so 8 minutes is 4 revolutions.

I am curious about the water temperature, something I will keep track of. The temperature with my older cleaner, which was around double the size rose to 34C. With the new smaller cleaner, and running dual cycles I will have to keep track of that. I am comfortable up to about 33-35C. If I go higher I will add a radiator, the water cooled computer type to the loop. Then I have to ensure I can maintain pressure through the system, fun stuff.

Thanks for the follow-up. I understand about the 2gal jug of distilled which goes with the ~1.5 gal P60H.

Where I am curious about the P60H is its internal tank height of 5.9 inches. Just thinking out loud... On the P120H the tank flares out about 1½ inches below the top. Where the flare starts might be called the the waterline; Elma says it is the maximum fill level with items immersed. To cover the grooved area I'm guessing the record will be ... what ... less than half-an-inch from the bottom of the tank? No doubt you have this worked out already. I don't think the Kuzma RD can be adjusted low enough for the P60H.

I do 10 minutes at each frequency; since you are pre-cleaning you can experiment.

Wrt temperature - I try not to go over 33° C. WBF member @dminches added a Thermaltake radiator to his system; it worked but iirc he removed it - see post # 66 in this thread. Since the ultrasonic action will naturally raise the water temperature independent of added heat and the lowest temp setting on the Elma is 30° C, I do not fully pre-heat the water. I'll appy heat maybe 60-90 seconds before starting the cycle.

 

[advanced101]

Oh yes, I was worried about that too.
The real limiter is the width of the tank before rubbing the sides. I have the height of the rotisserie set where the sides of the disc is 0.25” from the front and back of the tank. At that height the record is around 1” or so from the bottom.

 

[dminches]

Thanks for the follow-up. I understand about the 2gal jug of distilled which goes with the ~1.5 gal P60H.

Where I am curious about the P60H is its internal tank height of 5.9 inches. Just thinking out loud... On the P120H the tank flares out about 1½ inches below the top. Where the flare starts might be called the the waterline; Elma says it is the maximum fill level with items immersed. To cover the grooved area I'm guessing the record will be ... what ... less than half-an-inch from the bottom of the tank? No doubt you have this worked out already. I don't think the Kuzma RD can be adjusted low enough for the P60H.

I do 10 minutes at each frequency; since you are pre-cleaning you can experiment.

Wrt temperature - I try not to go over 33° C. WBF member @dminches added a Thermaltake radiator to his system; it worked but iirc he removed it - see post # 66 in this thread. Since the ultrasonic action will naturally raise the water temperature independent of added heat and the lowest temp setting on the Elma is 30° C, I do not fully pre-heat the water. I'll appy heat maybe 60-90 seconds before starting the cycle.

Tim, good memory. I removed it because it seemed as though there was some interaction between the tank fluids (distilled water, IPA and Ilfitol) and the radiator. The TDS meter had some high readings after just a couple of spindles of records so I pulled the radiator and pump.

 

[advanced101]

Tim, good memory. I removed it because it seemed as though there was some interaction between the tank fluids (distilled water, IPA and Ilfitol) and the radiator. The TDS meter had some high readings after just a couple of spindles of records so I pulled the radiator and pump.

Yea, metallurgy was a concern of mine regarding the radiators. I found one that is supposed to be 100% copper, was going to try that one.

 

[dminches]

Yea, metallurgy was a concern of mine regarding the radiators. I found one that is supposed to be 100% copper, was going to try that one.

This is the one I tried Thermaltake Pacific DIY Liquid Cooling System CL360 64mm Thick Copper Radiator CL-W191-CU00BL-A. I had not even considered the material interactions. I guess this is the downside of DIY.

On a side note, the metallurgy class I took at Lehigh was single most interesting class I took. Fascinating stuff!

 

[advanced101]

The idea behind choosing the one that is "Full Copper" is that at least they put some thought into the materials that they are using. My cheap Chinese cleaner said that valve was brass (which I couldn't remove) but I know that quality brass does not corrode that way. I should have performed X-Ray Fluorescence of the valve to get a break down of the elements and post that here. Would have been educational for the group, especially when choosing a cleaner. I inspected all my other brass fittings and those oxidized as expected, but I still swapped them out for plastic fittings (All but one for now).

My advice for anyone choosing a cleaner is to make sure that if the ultrasonic cleaner has a valve, you can remove it. Chances are you are going to want to replace it with a quality piece.

Here is the radiator I was looking at: https://www.frozencpu.com/products/..._Dual_120mm_Radiator_14157.html?tl=g30c95s160

For the Elmasonic drain fitting, I went with a 90 degree Elbow. My thinking is that I can angle that down 45 degrees to allow the low point of that section of the system to be the connected tubing rather than the tank itself.

 

[advanced101]

Attached is the end result. Finished the base with 4 layers of Tung Oil and progressive sanding in-between coats.

With a comfortable gap between the record and front/ back of tank, the record is approximately 1.25” from the bottom. I will also be approx. 1" from the max fill height. Getting the height of the side posts took some trial and error. I first built them around where I thought they should be, then removed another 0.25", then another 0.125" until it was near perfect. If I want to get a sliver higher I could always raise the tank up but I think I hit the best balance of variables.

On the bottom of the stand I glued 6 Herbie's Grungebuster Dots that I had in the closet to create adhesion between the stand and my plastic mat, to prevent the stand from potentially sliding around.

The motor base is another scrap piece of walnut (0.75" thickness) on top of your standard rubber/ cork vibration pad. I have the motor screwed from the top through the walnut down to the vibration pad. The motor is nearly silent.

I have a small C clamp that I previously used to secure the outlet tubing to the side of the tank, may get fancier there.

Still need to do a little cable management but need to mount my power strip in a more convenient location.