The sound of one tube??

[DaveyF]

In the current S'phile, MF writes an interesting article on the new Ypsilon Aelius amp. In the article, MF notes that the amp that is delivered to him for review is using a 6C45PiEH tube and that this tube is typically spec'd for european delivery. MF goes on to say that he was unaware of the fact the expected tube ...a Siemens C3g tube, was not in use. He also comments on how the amp sounds with the EH tube in place....and he is not very enthusiastic about the sound. Then, upon realizing that the US spec tube ( the C3g tube) is not in place, replaces the EH with the Siemens and all is now right with the amp!
The amp apparently takes on a new sound that is supposedly more musical, punchier and " tightens the screws on the musical framework, producing a punchier, more direct, more insistent sound". The single tube replacement has seemingly transformed this amp!
Having read this article, I am left with a couple of thoughts....1) Can a single tube replacement make that much of a difference? ( IME, tube rolling can be VERY advantageous, but one tube??) and 2) If, or since, a single tube change can make that big a difference in our gear, think of all of the other parameters that are possible....tube aging comes to mind among other things.
I also read JA's technical findings of this amp...it would seem the replacement tube was perhaps not that big a change on the bench...interesting.

 

[cjfrbw]

Sometimes I think critics state straw man reservations only so that they can anchor credibility as a prelude to more lavish praise. Yeah, a good driver tube could make a difference, but night and day? Could just be preferring one over the other.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I havent read /bought any magazines for years .

 

[microstrip]

Changing the type of tube in a device can produce large sound differences - and as far as I could see the curves of these tubes are different.
A friend of mine owned the the first version of the VTL 7.5 preamplfier, that had high gain and could sound noisy in some systems. Some people tried to solve the noise problem replacing the the 12ax7 with the 12au7 (as far as I know, a non approved VTL change) that had lower gain, but has a compatible pin out. He tried it and it completely changed the sound of the preamplifier - a night and day change as audiophiles like to say.

 

[cjfrbw]

I think it is very risky substituting a 12ax7 with a 12au7 without circuit modifications. I would imagine it would make the 12ax7 circuit sound a LOT different, but really low probability that it would be optimal.

 

[Peter Breuninger]

I have the Ypsilons (they came from Michael Fremer's) and yes the tube substitution is dramatic. The Siemens C3g tube produces a more exacting image with an illumination of the 1200 to 2500 frequencies. The 6C45PiEH tube is a little blurry in comparison. The Siemens tube gives the amp more perceived extension at the frequency extremes as well. It's a little more hifi sounding but also a lot more magical. The Siemens tube breathes life into the music, an Ypsilon trademark. I had the Yips on the MBLs and now on the Sonja's and it is a very dramatic amplifier, it draws you at first to the sound and then suddenly, and without notice, you become captivated with the music- as if you are part of it. It's like your mind does a hop and a skip.

 

[zztop7]

??? C3g = 6C45 ???

Question: C3g & 6C45 are both octal [8 pin], but the C3g has a large center post >>> Is the octal layout physically & electrically identical on both tubes [and thus the socket wiring]???
The S.. Mag wrote that they were able to just swap a 6C45 out of the C3g SOCKET, and then insert a C3g tube. Is anyone able to confirm this compatibility of these two tubes?

And to comment on the sound of one tube: the Right tube in the Right place leads to huge differences; bad & good.

Thanks for any assistance,
zz

 

[JackD201]

My Lamm M1.2s and M2.2s all use one tube each per channel. I have the stock tubes, Mullard CVs, Telefunken Red Tips and Valvos. Yes, each tube type is different. Lamm himself says stay with stock, my preference right now with the existing system make and set up is the Valvos.

I've no experience with a 6c45 or C3g, I don't think I've ever even seen them so I can't comment about those but yes, I think one tube can (depending on the circuit) make a big difference.

 

[zztop7]

8 pin tube into a 9 pin loctal socket

Correction of my Post #7
6c45 is a 9 Pin [not an Octal 8 pin]
Therefore, they are swapping an 8 pin tube into a 9 pin loctal socket.
??? Who makes that socket ???
zz

 

[microstrip]

I have the Ypsilons (they came from Michael Fremer's) and yes the tube substitution is dramatic. The Siemens C3g tube produces a more exacting image with an illumination of the 1200 to 2500 frequencies. The 6C45PiEH tube is a little blurry in comparison. The Siemens tube gives the amp more perceived extension at the frequency extremes as well. It's a little more hifi sounding but also a lot more magical. The Siemens tube breathes life into the music, an Ypsilon trademark. I had the Yips on the MBLs and now on the Sonja's and it is a very dramatic amplifier, it draws you at first to the sound and then suddenly, and without notice, you become captivated with the music- as if you are part of it. It's like your mind does a hop and a skip.

Peter,

The Aelius are in the top positions of the list of amplifiers I would love to listen in the Aida's. Unfortunately, although they are manufactured in Europe, they are not distributed in my country. Witch preamplifier and cables are you using with them?

I am attaching an internal picture taken from a test carried by the german magazine Audio.

 

[Peter Breuninger]

I'll take a pic... Demetris does a mod on the tube pin. Gotta love this hobby. We are all nuts

Correction of my Post #7
6c45 is a 9 Pin [not an Octal 8 pin]
Therefore, they are swapping an 8 pin tube into a 9 pin loctal socket.
??? Who makes that socket ???
zz

 

[Peter Breuninger]

Peter,

The Aelius are in the top positions of the list of amplifiers I would love to listen in the Aida's. Unfortunately, although they are manufactured in Europe, they are not distributed in my country. Witch preamplifier and cables are you using with them?

The Ypsilon pre and Tara Labs top shelf. RCA interconnects are required. Sound to die for. You should find a way to arrange a demo or just go for them. They are that good.

 

[microstrip]

For the technical inclined people - a triode driving an inverting transformer driving a Circlotron type output stage using MosFets. Also taken from audio.de

 

[DaveyF]

Peter, how do you think the Aelius compares to the Ayon's that you reviewed/ listened to a while back?

 

[cjfrbw]

That looks like an interesting circuit, but I suppose you could argue that in addition to the tube/transformer coupled input, transformer coupling the output might also be beneficial, albeit doubling the cost and weight of the circuit.

Seems transformer coupling transistor circuits might be the next fashion trend.

 

[BTS]

I havent read /bought any magazines for years .

Me too, I don't care about what other people can hear. It's for no use at all in my ears.

 

[microstrip]

That looks like an interesting circuit, but I suppose you could argue that in addition to the tube/transformer coupled input, transformer coupling the output might also be beneficial, albeit doubling the cost and weight of the circuit.

Seems transformer coupling transistor circuits might be the next fashion trend.

As far as I could understand, the designer thinks that having no output transformer is an advantage.
A good friend of mine owns the king of the transformer coupled amplifiers - the Marantz Project T-1 tube amplifier. It sounds great!

 

[andromedaaudio]

Besides that , i think the golden years of hifi design were around 2000 : ML 33(h) 32 Wilson X series kharma exquisite avalon eidolon halcro zanden Boulder amps continuum rockport , those were daring/ innovative designs besides magico i havent seen /heard much innovation , maybe i should also mention devialet pretty innovative also
I will not even start about sources , a lot of expirienced audiophiles/producers still consider tape as being the superiour medium so regarding sources the sixties /seventies were the golden years , what a joke if you think of it
what were the golden years of rock?? also sixties/ seventies

Me too, I don't care about what other people can hear. It's for no use at all in my ears.

 

[andi]

Correction of my Post #7
6c45 is a 9 Pin [not an Octal 8 pin]
Therefore, they are swapping an 8 pin tube into a 9 pin loctal socket.
??? Who makes that socket ???
zz

Hi zz,

the 6c45 is soldered to a custom made 8 pin adapter plate.

BG
Andreas

 

[zztop7]

Thank you - knowledge

Thank you Andreas for your knowledge.

Thank you Peter Breuninger for your knowledge.

Best to you,
zz.