...looks like it...please read.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2012/07/science-music?test=babbage
http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2012/07/science-music?test=babbage
The Science of music - same old song?
- Thread starter flez007
- Start date
I think we saw that article recently. Talent has gone down and the volume has gone up. I can't stand the pop crap that is being passed off for music. Everybody is singing through a box because they can't really sing and they all sing the same annoying crap.
What I found interesting is the cold fact around the beat count, lyric structures and tune format that a large proportion of "new" music recovers from the 50s and 60s, it is no longer a guess but a measure of back data.
The thing I've noticed happening with modern 'indie' music is a drift towards tunelessness where the song is performed with attitude, and the rhythm is played with great sincerity, but the backing chords and notes are really just 'markers' - smudges of sound that occur at the right time but have no real contribution to a melody as such. Just had a quick look at Youtube at some of the usual suspects, and I think this one by Snow Patrol sums it up from the opening chords:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk1Q9y6VVy0&feature=relmfu
The oh-so-dramatic ending is just a barely-better-than-random step through some chords that could have been selected by mouse in a sequencer package and kind-of edited simply to avoid any overt clashes with the oh-so plaintive vocal line. No identifiable structure as such; no hint that the melody leads and the backing echoes and reinforces it (or vice versa). I'm not saying that songs have to have a certain kind of structure or anything like that, but it would be nice for there to be a 'hook' or a 'riff' or even a novel sound that can carry the listener's interest. But oh! The sincerity!
My deep suspicion is that most fans of fashionable music (at any time) are not really into the music all that much anyway. I don't think that many people could really express an opinion on any music they haven't heard associated with 'a scene' or the clothes or what their friends were also into at the time. Play them a track they haven't heard by their supposed favourite band or in their favourite genre (without telling them what it is) and you'll get a blank stare most of the time. All those minor bands from the 60s, 70s and 80s who did create small masterpieces of music in the right place and at the right time were probably better than they needed to be, and once their fashionability had worn off, it wouldn't matter how good their subsequent music was; they were never going to make it after that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk1Q9y6VVy0&feature=relmfu
The oh-so-dramatic ending is just a barely-better-than-random step through some chords that could have been selected by mouse in a sequencer package and kind-of edited simply to avoid any overt clashes with the oh-so plaintive vocal line. No identifiable structure as such; no hint that the melody leads and the backing echoes and reinforces it (or vice versa). I'm not saying that songs have to have a certain kind of structure or anything like that, but it would be nice for there to be a 'hook' or a 'riff' or even a novel sound that can carry the listener's interest. But oh! The sincerity!
My deep suspicion is that most fans of fashionable music (at any time) are not really into the music all that much anyway. I don't think that many people could really express an opinion on any music they haven't heard associated with 'a scene' or the clothes or what their friends were also into at the time. Play them a track they haven't heard by their supposed favourite band or in their favourite genre (without telling them what it is) and you'll get a blank stare most of the time. All those minor bands from the 60s, 70s and 80s who did create small masterpieces of music in the right place and at the right time were probably better than they needed to be, and once their fashionability had worn off, it wouldn't matter how good their subsequent music was; they were never going to make it after that.
I think Myles posted this study when it was released. If pop music followed the basic rock and roll formula that developed from the 50's, which was pretty simple, it is going to be pretty basic. Blues isn't much different and they share some of the same roots. Hard rock followed the same template and modern country is in many ways like 70's rock.
If you go back before WWII, and shortly after, up to 'Elvis,' what was 'popular' was big band music, which was a little more involved musically, based on songwriting as well a orchestral arrangements.
There were still great somewriters in the 60's and 70's -think about Carole King, Stevie Wonder, our friend Janis Ian or Jimmy Webb. Some of this was very mainstream- hugely popular in any sense of the word, and far from 3 note stuff.
I think the more recent popularity of somebody like Amy Winehouse or Adele in the last few years points to the value of a song, not just an amorphous drone.
Rap, hip-hop, etc. is not me, politically or culturally, and I think its appeal had less to do with music than with a then emerging sense of urban black issues- sorta similar to the black power movement in the late 60's-early 70's. So, I'm going to discount that and not get into any discussion about how 'rap' ain't music. ('The Revolution Will not be Televised').
Neo-Soul and the use of autotune does drive me to distraction.
I'd rather listen to Disco Inferno, which is actually a great song.
Or check out 'Strawberry Letter #23' from the Bros Johnson, for those of you who don't know it- a classic 70's soul piece.
I do find the new bands derivative and for the most part uninteresting. I got the Gaslight Anthem record- it's ok, but I'm not swooning. Same thing with Alabama Shakes-plus the hype annoys me.
I think part of this is a new generation discovering something we heard. I am continually amused by the fact that kids can still dig Led Zep as fresh and cool.
Or the Allman Bros Live at the Fillmore as a cool fusion of southern rock and jazz.
I turned a 20-something on to Spirit's Dr. Sardonicus recently- he was absolutely blown away. (And those guys could do it all, and had a couple of huge hits back in the day- Led Zep opened for them early on).
PS: I generally agree with Raffles about music as fashion, but there are music lovers of all types and at all levels. This is the great dilemma about getting success in the music business, isn't it? (FWIW, I think Spirit was one of those bands that was way 'overqualified' to be popular and is kind of forgotten today).
If you go back before WWII, and shortly after, up to 'Elvis,' what was 'popular' was big band music, which was a little more involved musically, based on songwriting as well a orchestral arrangements.
There were still great somewriters in the 60's and 70's -think about Carole King, Stevie Wonder, our friend Janis Ian or Jimmy Webb. Some of this was very mainstream- hugely popular in any sense of the word, and far from 3 note stuff.
I think the more recent popularity of somebody like Amy Winehouse or Adele in the last few years points to the value of a song, not just an amorphous drone.
Rap, hip-hop, etc. is not me, politically or culturally, and I think its appeal had less to do with music than with a then emerging sense of urban black issues- sorta similar to the black power movement in the late 60's-early 70's. So, I'm going to discount that and not get into any discussion about how 'rap' ain't music. ('The Revolution Will not be Televised').
Neo-Soul and the use of autotune does drive me to distraction.
I'd rather listen to Disco Inferno, which is actually a great song.
Or check out 'Strawberry Letter #23' from the Bros Johnson, for those of you who don't know it- a classic 70's soul piece.
I do find the new bands derivative and for the most part uninteresting. I got the Gaslight Anthem record- it's ok, but I'm not swooning. Same thing with Alabama Shakes-plus the hype annoys me.
I think part of this is a new generation discovering something we heard. I am continually amused by the fact that kids can still dig Led Zep as fresh and cool.
Or the Allman Bros Live at the Fillmore as a cool fusion of southern rock and jazz.
I turned a 20-something on to Spirit's Dr. Sardonicus recently- he was absolutely blown away. (And those guys could do it all, and had a couple of huge hits back in the day- Led Zep opened for them early on).
PS: I generally agree with Raffles about music as fashion, but there are music lovers of all types and at all levels. This is the great dilemma about getting success in the music business, isn't it? (FWIW, I think Spirit was one of those bands that was way 'overqualified' to be popular and is kind of forgotten today).
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Does anyone think that there might be anything to the idea that all the best tunes have been written already? I'm certainly not of the school that says that there is an infinite pool of 'good' musical permutations and that we have only just scratched the surface.
There was a guy that sued all the major motion picture studios a number of years ago, claiming that he had developed a sort of 'story-o-tron' that basically created every possible story line that could be conceived; he then listed movies that were allegedly developed based on his scheme, and was able to draw parallels between films as diverse as Armistad and Star Wars. On a very general level, I suppose you could say that 'everything has been done,' but I hardly think so. That's what's so delightful about discovering a new song. For example, and you may think less of me for it, but I thought what Green Day did on American Idiot, while it was very much in the mold of some great anthem rock, cut some new ground and was pretty tasty. "New" in the sense of completely innovative- hardly, but well done. It hit the buttons. That might be the subject of a good thread, or part of this one, though: good new songs for their intrinsic musical beauty, leaving aside the performance, if you can. (Sometimes, it's hard to separate them, which is a reason why some singer/songwriter things don't work well but when the song is 'covered' it kicks ass).
There are certain simple, generic, infantile chord progressions that get past people's critical radar, it seems to me. Can anyone spot any similarity between these two songs delivered with total sincerity as though they're life-changing masterpieces by these two songstresses?
The sainted 'Adele'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCF9EXolHBo
'Jessie J'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnw0mn_eYLM
The sainted 'Adele'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCF9EXolHBo
'Jessie J'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnw0mn_eYLM
I am witnessing some back-to-the-basics music structure, mostly acoustic foundation of simple instruments in the alterntive/pop/world genres - I will feel unsafe saying that all music has been invented, but truth is that we are holding to original tunes and re-discovering musical pieces from that 50-60'era that the essay mentions. I have confidence that Indy groups will bring back some innovation in this regard (sorry to re-post the article, I think I missed Myles original one).
YES! The similarity is that both songs suck and they are both sung with FAKE sincerity!
This was the first time ever I heard Adele, and quite frankly, I don't think her voice has any redeeming qualities.
I don't know what popular music is coming to. At least in early rock/popular music, the performers, I hesitate to call some of them artists, at least didn't make any pretense that their music had any earth shattering significance like many do today.
Reading all the replies ... I can only wonder what the reaction of most of the public tuned to Western Classic music might have been to Jazz in the beginning ... Not defending the use of so many artifices to make some performers listenable but simply that music is evolving and changing .. For the best I don't know. I am keeping my mind open and do listen to a fair number of new performers some of them surprisingly good ... Frank Ocean comes to mind ... or Jill Scott .. ... I like Marron 5 and their songwriting. List is longer than that and popular music is not just American or Western pop music .. Quite a bit is happening elsewhere though some of it influenced by Western Pop .. T0 have an interesting idea do have listen at the Idan Raichel Project, maybe the most accessible is "Within my Walls" ... or to what is now called MPB (Música Popular Brasileira) artists like Ana Caram, Rosa Pasos, Djavan, etc or the work of an American trained singer: Marta Gomez, wonderful voice. She has an album on HD tracks by the way, well recorded and a voice the Pop scene hasn't known for a long time ... the Album is "Entre Cada Palabra" .. She is also interestingly featured on 2 songs from the Idan Raichel "Within my Walls" album ...
By the way have never heard a song by Adele, may have to brush up on her
By the way have never heard a song by Adele, may have to brush up on her
Reading all the replies ... I can only wonder what the reaction of most of the public tuned to Western Classic music might have been to Jazz in the beginning ... Not defending the use of so many artifices to make some performers listenable but simply that music is evolving and changing .. For the best I don't know. I am keeping my mind open and do listen to a fair number of new performers some of them surprisingly good ... Frank Ocean comes to mind ... or Jill Scott .. ... I like Marron 5 and their songwriting. List is longer than that and popular music is not just American or Western pop music .. Quite a bit is happening elsewhere though some of it influenced by Western Pop .. T0 have an interesting idea do have listen at the Idan Raichel Project, maybe the most accessible is "Within my Walls" ... or to what is now called MPB (Música Popular Brasileira) artists like Ana Caram, Rosa Pasos, Djavan, etc or the work of an American trained singer: Marta Gomez, wonderful voice. She has an album on HD tracks by the way, well recorded and a voice the Pop scene hasn't known for a long time ... the Album is "Entre Cada Palabra" .. She is also interestingly featured on 2 songs from the Idan Raichel "Within my Walls" album ...
By the way have never heard a song by Adele, may have to brush up on her
By the way have never heard a song by Adele, may have to brush up on her
Franz- I'm by no means a musicologist, but I suspect that some forms of 'jazz' whether they were 'band music' ala Sousa, Dixieland, or the early blues attributed to W.C. Handy, were outgrowths of mainstream music that didn't shock the sensibilities. I'm also thinking Cotton Club legacy here. Very much popular music. Although there were cultural and racial divides in the U.S. The more avant-gard stuff probably did shock the sensibilities and was the probably the province of the beatniks and cool cats that chewed up all those old jazz records Myles can't find in good condition.Reading all the replies ... I can only wonder what the reaction of most of the public tuned to Western Classic music might have been to Jazz in the beginning ... Not defending the use of so many artifices to make some performers listenable but simply that music is evolving and changing .. For the best I don't know. I am keeping my mind open and do listen to a fair number of new performers some of them surprisingly good ... Frank Ocean comes to mind ... or Jill Scott .. ... I like Marron 5 and their songwriting. List is longer than that and popular music is not just American or Western pop music .. Quite a bit is happening elsewhere though some of it influenced by Western Pop .. T0 have an interesting idea do have listen at the Idan Raichel Project, maybe the most accessible is "Within my Walls" ... or to what is now called MPB (Música Popular Brasileira) artists like Ana Caram, Rosa Pasos, Djavan, etc or the work of an American trained singer: Marta Gomez, wonderful voice. She has an album on HD tracks by the way, well recorded and a voice the Pop scene hasn't known for a long time ... the Album is "Entre Cada Palabra" .. She is also interestingly featured on 2 songs from the Idan Raichel "Within my Walls" album ...
By the way have never heard a song by Adele, may have to brush up on her
Adele doesn't bother me. She is part of that blue-eyed soul school that Amy Winehouse came out of, not as gritty, maybe, but you can trace her back to Dusty.
PS: I like the song 'Secret' by Maroon 5. Guilty pleasure, perhaps.
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