The musician amongst us....weigh in.

[DaveyF]

Tim, it would be stupid for me to argue what you listen to or for as you play, but i was thinking of improvisation and where it comes from- sure, you know the licks, and you can finesse them to death, but when you are at your most creative, where does it come from? Is it technical, or something from inside that you are translating to music, almost unconsciously? Maybe this doesn't have anything to do with hi-fi, which is largely a passive sport, although we like to be engaged as listeners.....

Bob, I LOVE your posts in this thread. You are saying EXACTLY what I am thinking.
I've been playing guitar on and off (mostly on) since I was nine years old. ( Nope I'm not telling anyone how old I am, BUT suffice it to say it gives me just a few years of experience). I originally was trained in classical guitar in the methods of Segovia until I was about eighteen. I taught at the local colleges for about ten years and I can tell you, most of the kids I taught never kept with the instrument. Why, because I think that most of the heavy rote that I taught was the wrong thing to do ( BTW, this is exactly the same method that is still taught today). When I went on and did private lessons, I branched into far more improvisation....my thinking had changed, now I wanted my students and myself to be able to bring the music that all of us have inside..out. So much more refreshing than simply learning to play covers or variations of covers ( what I call variations on a theme). Interestingly, almost ALL of my former private students are still playing and making great music.
The other day, a friend asked me to name the top guitar players ever....well guess what, almost none of them had any formal training. Like I said before in my OP, we all LOVE music so much on this forum, I'm pretty sure that many of you would get GREAT pleasure from picking up an instrument, if you haven't already, and making your own music.....I know I did, way back when.

 

[DaveyF]

Being a mastering engineer, I'm finding it harder and harder to just sit down and listen (enjoy) music without being critical.

Bruce, that's not a good thing, IMHO. Maybe you should step back and listen to music for what it is .... a lifting of the soul.

 

[astrotoy]

Bruce, that's not a good thing, IMHO. Maybe you should step back and listen to music for what it is .... a lifting of the soul.

One very good thing that happened this year was that my wife recommended that I go back to playing the piano, which I had learned from age 9 through 18. So at 66, now 67 I have gone back to play some of the pieces I played at that time. I started with a Bach Prelude and Fugue from the Well Tempered Clavier Book I (in Bb major). Surprisingly it has come back quite well after 50 years of neglect. I've gone on to play other old pieces: a Mozart Sonata (in F major K300) and a Brahms Rhapsody (in g minor). I tried but cannot play the great Chopin Ab Major Polonaise (Op.53) which I played at my high school senior recital - don't know how I ever played it way back when. We are fortunate to have a Bosendorfer 225 grand that my wife picked out at the factory in Vienna in 1987 (when the US dollar was the highest in history).

Playing music brings me great joy, but quite different from listening. I can't play Bach like Andras Schiff or Angela Hewitt, but there is something special about the music emerging from my own fingers.

Larry

 

[treitz3]

Good morning, musicians. Even though I sang at church, in choruses nationwide and even sang for the President, twice? If you gave me an actual instrument, I couldn't hold a note if you stuffed it in my pocket and zipped it up. Perhaps this is why I love listening to the music others make so much. An utmost respect kind of thing.

Tom

 

[Keith_W]

I started with a Bach Prelude and Fugue from the Well Tempered Clavier Book I (in Bb major).

Larry, I know that one like the back of my hand. It just so happens that I was discussing this very fugue with a friend the other day, and recommended this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNVduEaQb-4

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Being a mastering engineer, I'm finding it harder and harder to just sit down and listen (enjoy) music without being critical.

I often find myself deconstructing music as I'm listening to it, looking for arrangements in my head that fit whatever my current playing situation is. And it does become less pleasant than just listening for joy. It's ok, though, I get my joy playing...



Tim

 

[Bill Hart]

Bob, I LOVE your posts in this thread. You are saying EXACTLY what I am thinking.
I've been playing guitar on and off (mostly on) since I was nine years old. ( Nope I'm not telling anyone how old I am, BUT suffice it to say it gives me just a few years of experience). I originally was trained in classical guitar in the methods of Segovia until I was about eighteen. I taught at the local colleges for about ten years and I can tell you, most of the kids I taught never kept with the instrument. Why, because I think that most of the heavy rote that I taught was the wrong thing to do ( BTW, this is exactly the same method that is still taught today). When I went on and did private lessons, I branched into far more improvisation....my thinking had changed, now I wanted my students and myself to be able to bring the music that all of us have inside..out. So much more refreshing than simply learning to play covers or variations of covers ( what I call variations on a theme). Interestingly, almost ALL of my former private students are still playing and making great music.
The other day, a friend asked me to name the top guitar players ever....well guess what, almost none of them had any formal training. Like I said before in my OP, we all LOVE music so much on this forum, I'm pretty sure that many of you would get GREAT pleasure from picking up an instrument, if you haven't already, and making your own music.....I know I did, way back when.

Davey: You should pick up that book i mentioned to MEP, 'The Perfect Wrong Note,' which addresses all of this, admittedly from the standpoint of a piano, not a guitar. I agree with Tim that the guitar and other stringed instruments are more difficult than a keyboard instrument. But, having started on the piano, I always thought that's why it was easier for me.
We have a friend who is one of those natural multi-instrument talents, guy is just incredible- basically a woodwind player who is a well-known session guy and has toured a fair amount. He decided to teach himself pedal steel. Insane.
When we were in Nashville last year, he sat in with a Western Swing band at Bob's Western World. Played Duke Ellington.
Look him up. Jim Hoke. Good guy. Incredible player.
Bill

 

[mep]

There is a wonderful book called, i think 'The Perfect Wrong Note,' or something like that (I can look it up), which says the strict adherence to learning to play accurately by rote actually denies you the ability to tap into the music and really learn- it's a neat read, and the philosophy about learning from and 'going with' your mistakes has broader applicability. I can find the book for you if you want to read it.

I NEED that book!

 

[DaveyF]

Bill, I have a suspicious feeling that whoever wrote that book isn't been taken too seriously by the music/teaching establishment. The status quo on the method of teaching has been in place for at least one hundred years and I don't think it's likely to change anytime soon When I have discussed this matter with other teachers and pros, almost all of them look at me as IF I'm from another planet. All the while, we see an ENORMOUS burn-out with kids at the schools and elsewhere due, IMHO,to the "accepted" method. A VERY SAD thing....

Anyhow, back to playing my music.

 

[Bill Hart]

Book readily available on Amazon. I found it at MIT bookstore, which is sort of interesting, because I don't think MIT has a music school- but the whole concept of chaos theory is right up their alley, scientifically speaking.

 

[astrotoy]

Larry, I know that one like the back of my hand. It just so happens that I was discussing this very fugue with a friend the other day, and recommended this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNVduEaQb-4

Keith, wow. Thank you so much. What a coincidence and treat to hear Tureck's explanation. Larry

 

[NorthStar]

I often find myself deconstructing music as I'm listening to it, looking for arrangements in my head that fit whatever my current playing situation is. And it does become less pleasant than just listening for joy. It's ok, though, I get my joy playing...

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Tim

---- Tim, I assume that the great looking guy at the center is you? :b