TAS' Peter Breuninger Reviews LL1 Signature Preamp and ML3 Signature Mono Amps

[Steve williams]

From the December issue of TAS

http://lammindustries.com/reviews/ML3 LL1 review TAS dec 2010.pdf

 

[mep]

Steve-I assume you said a big "Amen" when you read this review. I thoroughly enjoyed reading it.

 

[Steve williams]

There was never a doubt in my mind Mark

 

[RBFC]

I don't think Steve needed the review at all. After spending a huge portion of one's life in the audio world, you tend to know when you get it right.

Sounds like incredible gear!

Lee

 

[mep]

Lee-I know that Steve didn't need the review-that was never my point. All I meant was that Steve would basically agree with what Peter wrote. That's it. Nothing more implied or intended.

 

[RBFC]

Wasn't really replying to you, Mark... After the incredible parade of blown-away guests, AND knowing Steve's anal nature about sound, I would never believe he'd care what a review said. Sorry if you took it wrong.

Lee

 

[amirm]

That was a very enjoyable read. I really liked that he spent fair amount of time explaining the technology at hand and Lamm's approach to it. I was expecting a bunch of verbiage resembling wine review and while some of that exists, the meat of the review was nice and objective. So much so that I put a link to this article in our WBF Amp Library thread as I think it is a good overview of what it takes to build good transformer based tube amps.

I also liked the contrast between two amps.

Steve, do you run with any feedback? And what output impedance do you use? Are you running your speakers with wires crossed as it says and if so, is your sub set to 180 degree phase shift just the same?

 

[Steve williams]

I use no feedback. In fact when I spoke to Vladimir about it he laughed and told me not to use it. He said he put it in for people to play with but says the sound is better with no feedback

 

[MylesBAstor]

I use no feedback. In fact when I spoke to Vladimir about it he laughed and told me not to use it. He said he put it in for people to play with but says the sound is better with no feedback

Steve:

Did you experiment though with the amp's feedback (and I assume it's local rather than global)? Zero feedback preamplifiers definitely seem to work but not always with amplifiers. I've played with a few amplifier over the years with the ability to vary feedback by say up to 8dB; I always found the amps to sound slightly better with a slight, judiciously used, amount of feedback. And of course, the use of feedback will greatly depend upon the speaker, whether the amp is used full range, etc.; a small amount might be required to ensure amplifier stability.

 

[mep]

Amir-I agree with you that it was a very enjoyable read. I certainly enjoyed it. This review was the polar opposite for me with regards to another member on this forum that I picked on for his reviews being very painful to read (at least to me-and if you don't want to call it painful, it damn sure wasn't enjoyable). Great job on Peter's part for telling us a story and taking us along for the ride.

 

[microstrip]

As you, I find it enjoyable and entertaining, but not objective for me - sorry Amir .
The review is made exclusively with a speaker I have never heard - and have only read the critic by the same reviewer in TAS 209 now. It would be interesting to know how it sounds with other speakers.
The technical side does not explain why it sounds so much better than any other single ended amplifier - all of them share the referred characteristics.

I think that the reviews of Soundstage and Theaudiobeat have much more information and give a better picture of Valdimir Lamm masterpieces.

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/lamm_ml3_signature.htm

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/equipment/lamm_ll1_signature.htm

After reading the review of the Coincident Pure Reference Extreme in TAS 2009 the question seems now to be: what is better a Lamm ML2.2 with Wilson X2 or the ML3 with the Coincidents?

Steve, please do not give us a political correct answer ...

 

[amirm]

What I call "objective" is speaking of factual things independent of opinion. So space given to how amps are designed and components within, are objective. What he heard is subjective.

Just because something is objective, doesn't mean it is convincing. An amp measured and written to be to have 50% distortion is objective. It doesn't mean one has to rush out and buy it .

 

[Steve williams]

As you, I find it enjoyable and entertaining, but not objective for me - sorry Amir .
The review is made exclusively with a speaker I have never heard - and have only read the critic by the same reviewer in TAS 209 now. It would be interesting to know how it sounds with other speakers.
The technical side does not explain why it sounds so much better than any other single ended amplifier - all of them share the referred characteristics.

I think that the reviews of Soundstage and Theaudiobeat have much more information and give a better picture of Valdimir Lamm masterpieces.

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/lamm_ml3_signature.htm

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/equipment/lamm_ll1_signature.htm

After reading the review of the Coincident Pure Reference Extreme in TAS 2009 the question seems now to be: what is better a Lamm ML2.2 with Wilson X2 or the ML3 with the Coincidents?

Steve, please do not give us a political correct answer ...

actually for me the greater interest lies in a shootout between the Lamm LL1 Signature and the Audio Research 40th Anniversary

 

[MylesBAstor]

actually for me the greater interest lies in a shootout between the Lamm LL1 Signature and the Audio Research 40th Anniversary

I'd have to also say that the cj GAT (with Wave Kinetics footers underneath) deserves a listen along with the two aforementioned line stages

 

[jazdoc]

OR...
You could go with the Experience Music Kahn LCR two-box phono stage built to your specifications: http://jeffreywjackson.com/kahnLCR.htm

AND get the matching two box DHT line stage

AND get your choice of SET amplification

AND have a whole lot of money to spend on other things...like music!

 

[microstrip]

actually for me the greater interest lies in a shootout between the Lamm LL1 Signature and the Audio Research 40th Anniversary

Steve,
I think such a shootout of preamplifiers does not have any meaning per si. But listening to an optimized system using the ARC Audio Research 40th Anniversary with the ARC REF610Ts and your, equally optimum system, would be enlightening ...

I think we should listen to systems, not to individual pieces of equipment - and I believe synergy is much more than an electrical attribute.

BTW, did you ever listen to the Coincident Pure Reference Extreme ?

 

[Steve williams]

Careful when you use that word "synergy" as I did here and it opened a whole can of worms

I have not heard the CPRE speakers. FWIW, I ran a pair of ARC Ref 600 Mklll amps with an ARC Ref3 before I went the SET route and I loved the sound but with 70 tbes you needed to wear a bathing suitin my room before I added a 3rd central AC for my house dedicated only to my room

 

[microstrip]

I have not heard the CPRE speakers. FWIW, I ran a pair of ARC Ref 600 Mklll amps with an ARC Ref3 before I went the SET route and I loved the sound but with 70 tbes you needed to wear a bathing suitin my room before I added a 3rd central AC for my house dedicated only to my room

I think the price difference between the ARC Ref 610T and the ML3 will be much less than the cost of the central AC, even if you include electrical power for 10 years use.

Do you know if Lamm has a recommended list of speakers compatible with the ML3 in medium and large rooms? May be we should have a thread on this topic. I find curious that I have never seen reports of horn speakers being demonstrated with Lamm amplifiers.

 

[LL21]

I'd have to also say that the cj GAT (with Wave Kinetics footers underneath) deserves a listen along with the two aforementioned line stages

Hi Myles,

Could you describe what the Wave Kinetics have done for the GAT? i have used isopods and now HRS nimbus couplers with the HRS damping plates (and which are my favorite to day)...but am very intriguted by Jonathan Tinn's latest product. Your description (ideally comparison to any other products you've used) woudl be appreciated. (If you prefer to PM, i understand.) thanks for any guidance on Wave Kinetics.

Lloyd