Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Johnny Moondog]

That is my understanding as well. It will be a proprietary product for the Extreme. Taiko please correct me if I'm wrong.

Well apparently I've mixed fact with fantasy... Just did a quick search on this thread and only see discussion of a future router, switch, and network card for the Extreme. I accidentally added a DAC into the mix, and will edit my Chord DAVE listing to remove reference to a Taiko DAC. Sorry for the confusion!

Here is evidence of that fantasy in action! Apparently I should cut back on Negroni cocktails.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...cut back on cocktails? What are we, savages?!

 

[Malcng]

Just to clarify......IIRC Taiko is not releasing a stand alone DAC but rather an internal board to the Extreme that provides analog out. Someone from Taiko please correct me if Im wrong

This is very interesting and I like the idea as it would remove a DAC, power cable, Ethernet and USB cable from the mix which could potentially be very beneficial for SQ. It would also free up a shelf in the rack which could also be very beneficial - or not if you are the type that immediately wonders what they could buy to put in the space created!

 

[Zeotrope]

This is very interesting and I like the idea as it would remove a DAC, power cable, Ethernet and USB cable from the mix which could potentially be very beneficial for SQ. It would also free up a shelf in the rack which could also be very beneficial - or not if you are the type that immediately wonders what they could buy to put in the space created!

Unfortunately, there are no free lunches. If you look at the size of any high-end DAC, you'll see why it's impossible to match the performance with a much smaller footprint. It just won't work. You would still need a separate power supply as you wouldn't want to share the Extreme's power, etc...

 

[matthias]

You would still need a separate power supply as you wouldn't want to share the Extreme's power, etc...

The internal Taiko DAC needs most certainly not much more power than the USB card, which you can remove in this case.

Matt

 

[microstrip]

Although after I got the Taiiko Extreme I became lazy to try network tweaks and was very happy with my Netgear 108 with a linear power supply, when I read a Mike Lavigne post about the Nordost net products - Qnet , Qsource and QSource dedicated DC cable - a few months ago I decided to to try them, in part because of the system simplicity - just router, power source and DC cable. I first got the Qnet, that includes a small switched mode plug power supply, and it become resident - I found it preferable to my old router.

I also ordered the DC custom cable, but due to some confusion - the Lemo cable terminations for the Qpoint's are not the same as those for the Qnet, holidays and an extremely filled schedule I only assembled the complete system a week ago. The jump in performance was remarkable - more music, better definition of nuance and detail, keeping the usual smoothness. Listening to Janet See interpretation of the Vivaldi Flute Concertos the harpsichord sounds more real, strings have more "color", everything is more in my room. I tried now tried switching between router/ no router and there is no doubt - in my system (Taiko Extreme /dCS Vivaldi APEX stack) using a 200Mbps netwrork feed the Nordost system is a nice improvement.

 

[Steve Williams]

There has been a lot of positive buzz recently on WBF regarding the sonic improvement a DC cable makes. I assume it’s between the DCS power supply and DAC?

it’s always nice to read about these newly discovered pearls

 

[microstrip]

There has been a lot of positive buzz recently on WBF regarding the sonic improvement a DC cable makes. I assume it’s between the DCS power supply and DAC?

it’s always nice to read about these newly discovered pearls

No - it is between the Nordost Qsource power supply and the Nordost Qnet (switch) .

Fortunately the dCS units do not have separate power supplies - four large units is enough!

 

[Malcng]

Whilst all the feedback about XDMS is very interesting, I was listening to the best music I have ever heard by a long way in my house last night using Roon and would be perfectly happy to call it a day right now. I find it hard to imagine where/how things could be improved but will certainly be happy if XDMS proves me wrong.

In the early part of this year, I tried out a number of different items of equipment with the aim of finally hitting an endpoint with my main system. I am not in the same equipment testing league as @romaz, but it was quite a challenge and took some considerable amount of time and effort. Every single item was re-assessed and compared with the exception of my speakers and headphones. When I reached what I considered to be my optimal setup, I then reconstructed my original system and the difference was staggering. After what I had got used to, it was actually hard to listen to my old setup which was sounding thin and hard by comparison. I then decided to rebuild what I had considered as the optimal combination piece by piece in order to try and quantify how much each item was contributing to the whole and, what was really quite surprising, was to discover that the Extreme accounted for by far the largest portion of the improvement. I had four DAC’s at one point and whilst the differences between them could be heard, the differences and degree of uplift achieved was not as significant as that contributed by Extreme. This might seem a bit of an extreme comment, but I consider the improvement lent by adding the Extreme to be about on par with that achieved by my adding a new DAC, preamp and power amp together. Hard to believe and certainly not what I was expecting, but it did make the cost of adding the Extreme to be far easier to accept.

 

[John T]

Whilst all the feedback about XDMS is very interesting, I was listening to the best music I have ever heard by a long way in my house last night using Roon and would be perfectly happy to call it a day right now. I find it hard to imagine where/how things could be improved but will certainly be happy if XDMS proves me wrong.

In the early part of this year, I tried out a number of different items of equipment with the aim of finally hitting an endpoint with my main system. I am not in the same equipment testing league as @romaz, but it was quite a challenge and took some considerable amount of time and effort. Every single item was re-assessed and compared with the exception of my speakers and headphones. When I reached what I considered to be my optimal setup, I then reconstructed my original system and the difference was staggering. After what I had got used to, it was actually hard to listen to my old setup which was sounding thin and hard by comparison. I then decided to rebuild what I had considered as the optimal combination piece by piece in order to try and quantify how much each item was contributing to the whole and, what was really quite surprising, was to discover that the Extreme accounted for by far the largest portion of the improvement. I had four DAC’s at one point and whilst the differences between them could be heard, the differences and degree of uplift achieved was not as significant as that contributed by Extreme. This might seem a bit of an extreme comment, but I consider the improvement lent by adding the Extreme to be about on par with that achieved by my adding a new DAC, preamp and power amp together. Hard to believe and certainly not what I was expecting, but it did make the cost of adding the Extreme to be far easier to accept.

This obsession of ours can be maddening. I too at times thought Roon is certainly tolerable and sounds pretty damn good. I've been involved in several intense projects lately so I kept my settings on Roon for easy access for almost a month. When things slowed down and I could pay more attention Roon sounded flat and lifeless. I never recall it sounding this bad? Switched back to TAS and the life of the music returned. I may venture to XDMS after fiber is installed and the Horizon is settled in. I can't explain why Roon morphed like this? Nothing changed in my system. Its been back on TAS and I'm enjoying my music again. I also think Roon can vary from system to system.

 

[Christiaan Punter]

This obsession of ours can be maddening. I too at times thought Roon is certainly tolerable and sounds pretty damn good. I've been involved in several intense projects lately so I kept my settings on Roon for easy access for almost a month. When things slowed down and I could pay more attention Roon sounded flat and lifeless. I never recall it sounding this bad? Switched back to TAS and the life of the music returned. I may venture to XDMS after fiber is installed and the Horizon is settled in. I can't explain why Roon morphed like this? Nothing changed in my system. Its been back on TAS and I'm enjoying my music again. I also think Roon can vary from system to system.

I feel that 2.0 sounds slightly more rounded/less incisive than 1.8, but opinions on this may well vary. The main thing is that Roon SQ is always in flux. It changes, sometimes subtly, sometimes less subtly, with each software update. This is one of the reasons for Taiko to develop XDMS, and to have it entirely under our control.

 

[Malcng]

This obsession of ours can be maddening. I too at times thought Roon is certainly tolerable and sounds pretty damn good. I've been involved in several intense projects lately so I kept my settings on Roon for easy access for almost a month. When things slowed down and I could pay more attention Roon sounded flat and lifeless. I never recall it sounding this bad? Switched back to TAS and the life of the music returned. I may venture to XDMS after fiber is installed and the Horizon is settled in. I can't explain why Roon morphed like this? Nothing changed in my system. Its been back on TAS and I'm enjoying my music again. I also think Roon can vary from system to system.

I agree. I recently felt similarly about Roon sound quality after a recent FW update so I checked all of my settings and found that the settings under ‘Device Setup’ had changed from where I had set them. Also, certain things like DSP options had been re-instated - I had removed them. Roon is apparently not supposed to impose changes of that type, but I know how I had it set and once I reset it to where I had it, it sounded very good again. I do wonder if this may be one of the reasons why there appears to be such a diversity of reaction to Roon updates. Fortunately, the latest FW sounds great and no changes were made to my advanced settings.

As Christiaan says, XDMS should put all that behind us.

 

[Christiaan Punter]

I agree. I recently felt similarly about Roon sound quality after a recent FW update so I checked all of my settings and found that the settings under ‘Device Setup’ had changed from where I had set them. Also, certain things like DSP options had been re-instated - I had removed them. Roon is apparently not supposed to impose changes of that type, but I know how I had it set and once I reset it to where I had it, it sounded very good again. I do wonder if this may be one of the reasons why there appears to be such a diversity of reaction to Roon updates. Fortunately, the latest FW sounds great and no changes were made to my advanced settings.

As Christiaan says, XDMS should put all that behind us.

Good point about Roon resetting certain settings upon updating it. I know about it but this often still slips under my radar! It can also affect your view settings. So, it's good to always check your settings.

 

[Taiko Audio]

This obsession of ours can be maddening. I too at times thought Roon is certainly tolerable and sounds pretty damn good. I've been involved in several intense projects lately so I kept my settings on Roon for easy access for almost a month. When things slowed down and I could pay more attention Roon sounded flat and lifeless. I never recall it sounding this bad? Switched back to TAS and the life of the music returned. I may venture to XDMS after fiber is installed and the Horizon is settled in. I can't explain why Roon morphed like this? Nothing changed in my system. Its been back on TAS and I'm enjoying my music again. I also think Roon can vary from system to system.

I don't think Roon sounds "bad". It's just that TAS is considered to sound better. And XDMS is considered to sound better then TAS again. The audiophile curse is once you've heard "better" it's very hard to go back to previous as that all of a sudden sounds "terrible". You can upgrade a power cord, USB cable, power strip, or any component and suddenly feel your system has become "horrible sounding" using the previous. Obviously, it's interesting software can make a large difference, but it will always still be a sum of all parts, and from that perspective TAS and XDMS are "just" upgrades you can choose to apply or ignore. If you like Roon, by all means keep using it and upgrade something else if that desire exists. We have, IMHO, several very considerable upgrades coming up, I'm using them already and find the Extreme "unlistenable" without, however keep the second sentence of this post in mind, they're "just upgrades", not "must haves".

 

[Steve Williams]

I don't think Roon sounds "bad". It's just that TAS is considered to sound better. And XDMS is considered to sound better then TAS again. The audiophile curse is once you've heard "better" it's very hard to go back to previous as that all of a sudden sounds "terrible". You can upgrade a power cord, USB cable, power strip, or any component and suddenly feel your system has become "horrible sounding" using the previous. Obviously, it's interesting software can make a large difference, but it will always still be a sum of all parts, and from that perspective TAS and XDMS are "just" upgrades you can choose to apply or ignore. If you like Roon, by all means keep using it and upgrade something else if that desire exists. We have, IMHO, several very considerable upgrades coming up, I'm using them already and find the Extreme "unlistenable" without, however keep the second sentence of this post in mind, they're "just upgrades", not "must haves".

We are going to rename you Master Tease

 

[John T]

I don't think Roon sounds "bad". It's just that TAS is considered to sound better. And XDMS is considered to sound better then TAS again. The audiophile curse is once you've heard "better" it's very hard to go back to previous as that all of a sudden sounds "terrible". You can upgrade a power cord, USB cable, power strip, or any component and suddenly feel your system has become "horrible sounding" using the previous. Obviously, it's interesting software can make a large difference, but it will always still be a sum of all parts, and from that perspective TAS and XDMS are "just" upgrades you can choose to apply or ignore. If you like Roon, by all means keep using it and upgrade something else if that desire exists. We have, IMHO, several very considerable upgrades coming up, I'm using them already and find the Extreme "unlistenable" without, however keep the second sentence of this post in mind, they're "just upgrades", not "must haves".

"Bad" was not the best choice of words. I think our sensory responses become polluted and overworked. Constant evaluation of sound is very similar as tasting wines. When you taste too many varietals your taste sensation becomes dull, devalued, distinguishing nuances become blurred and more difficult to ascertain...

 

[Malcng]

The audiophile curse is once you've heard "better" it's very hard to go back to previous as that all of a sudden sounds "terrible".

This is true of many things and, once you have experienced a higher level of quality, it is generally hard to go back to the previous. My father taught me from a young age that, if something is important to you, always get the very best that you are able. My wife came to inherit this point of view over time and often says that I have ruined her because she always had simple taste in things. It’s a double edged sword for sure.

 

[Steve Williams]

This is true of many things and, once you have experienced a higher level of quality, it is generally hard to go back to the previous. My father taught me from a young age that, if something is important to you, always get the very best that you are able. My wife came to inherit this point of view over time and often says that I have ruined her because she always had simple taste in things. It’s a double edged sword for sure.

I have yet to read of any XDMS user who prefers Roon over XDMS. You can’t unring a bell

 

[Malcng]

I have yet to read of any XDMS user who prefers Roon over XDMS. You can’t unring a bell

I certainly do look forward to hearing it for myself in due course.

 

[gleeds]

Hi All,

Steve was kind enough to invite me over yesterday to hear the latest incarnation of his system using XDMS since I'm considering adding a Taiko Extreme server to my demonstration system. We listened to a range of Steve's reference tracks, many of my long time favorites, and compared files between Qobuz in 16/44 and 24/96 hard files. Three takeaways:

1. This was the best digital I have heard, and not by a small margin and

2. The XDMS software accurately reveals what is on each recording, including all its majesty and all its faults. Tonal difference, particularly on male vocals are especially revealing

3. The blackness of the background, placement of instruments in space and attack and decay are remarkable!

No doubt the quietness of Steve's room and superb cabling and components contributed to my ability to hear XDMS in the most revealing manner. Note: those with high-resolution systems, be prepared to hear heretofore undetectable weaknesses in your system.

Thanks, Steve for the illuminating day of music and congratulations Emile and the Taiko development team for continuing to push the boundaries of digital replay. Bravo!