Symphonic Line

[Skanda]

Hey guys, I wanted to get a thread started on symphonic line. There's a few of us here who own and absolutely love these amps. Is it possible to get a manufacturer subforum open so others who are interested can learn more?

I'll post detailed impressions of my kraft 300 mk3 once we get things up and running.

 

[Steve Williams]

Hey guys, I wanted to get a thread started on symphonic line. There's a few of us here who own and absolutely love these amps. Is it possible to get a manufacturer subforum open so others who are interested can learn more?

I'll post detailed impressions of my kraft 300 mk3 once we get things up and running.

Simple answer is "no" unless the forum gets countless threads on the product I might be inclined to move them to a dedicated subforum but this is not happening now. Start your thread(s) in either the general audio forum or the amplifier forum. A dedicated subforum is not necessary at this time

 

[Skanda]

Thanks for the clarification. I agree that right now its not necessary, just wanted to make sure I was going about it the right way.

 

[caesar]

I have had many of the hyped up brands In my house. Got blood and scars and a bad back to prove it.


Symphonic line is the most organic SS ever made.

Guys who like Luxman , pass xa, gryphon, and the class a sound should like it. But symphonic line is even less hifi sounding than those brands. Yet the market has spoken: audiophiles really like the hifi, frequently analytical , intellectualized sound of the d’gastinos, classe, ayre, Pass x series, Brysto, krell etc.

 

[sidvee]

I have had a kraft 250 for past 6-7 years, many amps. came and went during this period, but this one stayed. Currently also using a Luxman m-700u, but the Kraft 250 handles bass better with my Wilson Sabrina's.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[caesar]

I believe people also have had great success using these amps with Vivids, B&Ws, Magicos, and other hard-to-drive box speakers. Guys who thought that these popular audiophile box speakers are analytical when driven by the popular, quickly changed their minds after hearing them with Symphonic Line.

And, of course, Symphonic line is the only non-MBL amplifier that can make the power-hungry MBLs sound like music. On the MBL, every other amp sounds like drek, despite the pedigree of the designer or their measurements.

 

[Alrainbow]

I have had a kraft 250 for past 6-7 years, many amps. came and went during this period, but this one stayed. Currently also using a Luxman m-700u, but the Kraft 250 handles bass better with my Wilson Sabrina's.
Cheers,
Sid

Luxman is not known for drive so not surprised ...

 

[AudioLibertarian]

Hey guys, I wanted to get a thread started on symphonic line. There's a few of us here who own and absolutely love these amps. Is it possible to get a manufacturer subforum open so others who are interested can learn more?

I'll post detailed impressions of my kraft 300 mk3 once we get things up and running.

Skanda,

When will you be posting your impressions of the Kraft 300mk3? I ve been contemplating on buying this particular model for the last couple of years, yet only can purchase it without audition, as there are practically no dealers in the USA stocking& demoing it, so your observations would be most helpful and provide some insight. I have had an extensive experience with their SL RG-4 mono blocks and those are sublime! Thanks!

 

[Skanda]

Skanda,

When will you be posting your impressions of the Kraft 300mk3? I ve been contemplating on buying this particular model for the last couple of years, yet only can purchase it without audition, as there are practically no dealers in the USA stocking& demoing it, so your observations would be most helpful and provide some insight. I have had an extensive experience with their SL RG-4 mono blocks and those are sublime! Thanks!

hey @AudioLibertarian, I'm hoping to get to it this weekend. i have a ton on my plate right now so have a backlog of stuff i need to write up. but even weekends are pressed for time now. gotta work 7 days a week to afford this gear hahah.

i was in a similar position but having an odyssey kismet + working with klaus bunge, i trusted his rec. i was very interested in ch and soulution and i could acuqire some of their pieces but some of the comments klaus had made about the SL along with the fact that i was just blown away by the kismet encouraged me to go for it. absolutely no regrets and if i move to a bigger place i'm hella keen on monos. i run my magicos with the kraft300 and as @caesar mentioned earlier, hard to drive box speaker + kraft is a great match. on paper the s5mk2 isn't crazy hard to drive but it absolutely eats up the extra power and the midrange tone is hands down the best i've heard from any amp (on the magicos at least). i think if you like the SET tone but listen to more modern music and have more demanding speakers it's a great option. however, i'm hesitant to full draw that comparison because i don't want to imply that bass and highs are not extended. they are: everything is so well balanced - it's a masterful performance every time.

 

[AudioLibertarian]

hey @AudioLibertarian, I'm hoping to get to it this weekend. i have a ton on my plate right now so have a backlog of stuff i need to write up. but even weekends are pressed for time now. gotta work 7 days a week to afford this gear hahah.

i was in a similar position but having an odyssey kismet + working with klaus bunge, i trusted his rec. i was very interested in ch and soulution and i could acuqire some of their pieces but some of the comments klaus had made about the SL along with the fact that i was just blown away by the kismet encouraged me to go for it. absolutely no regrets and if i move to a bigger place i'm hella keen on monos. i run my magicos with the kraft300 and as @caesar mentioned earlier, hard to drive box speaker + kraft is a great match. on paper the s5mk2 isn't crazy hard to drive but it absolutely eats up the extra power and the midrange tone is hands down the best i've heard from any amp (on the magicos at least). i think if you like the SET tone but listen to more modern music and have more demanding speakers it's a great option. however, i'm hesitant to full draw that comparison because i don't want to imply that bass and highs are not extended. they are: everything is so well balanced - it's a masterful performance every time.

THANKS!

 

[jonaiken]

Hi Guys, I own the full line of Symphonic Line electronics, all of the current versions, including the latest Kraft 300 Mono-blocks, which are phenomenal amplifiers. The 300’s are true to the music and allow the music to flow or be presented as recorded. I get unbelievable transparency with 3D-dimensionality that is wide and deep with multiple layers within in the soundstage that allows you to pinpoint the exact position of the musicians. The amps are ballsy (dynamic) with great inner detailing that draws you into the music to discover things you never heard before. The tonal balance is right on with powerful, deep and detailed bass, providing a palatable midrange with detailed and delicate high frequencies. The sound of my system is holographic, organic and musical and the Kraft 300’s are key to maximizing my listening experience. The Krafts are far better than my old amps, Audio Research Ref. 250SE’s and easily compete with the higher echelon amplifiers in the marketplace today at a fraction of the cost. I will say with the full loom of Symphonic Line electronics I get great synergy that rewards me with great sound. Skanda, it will be interesting to hear your opinion of the 300’s.

 

[AudioLibertarian]

Hi Guys, I own the full line of Symphonic Line electronics, all of the current versions, including the latest Kraft 300 Mono-blocks, which are phenomenal amplifiers. The 300’s are true to the music and allow the music to flow or be presented as recorded. I get unbelievable transparency with 3D-dimensionality that is wide and deep with multiple layers within in the soundstage that allows you to pinpoint the exact position of the musicians. The amps are ballsy (dynamic) with great inner detailing that draws you into the music to discover things you never heard before. The tonal balance is right on with powerful, deep and detailed bass, providing a palatable midrange with detailed and delicate high frequencies. The sound of my system is holographic, organic and musical and the Kraft 300’s are key to maximizing my listening experience. The Krafts are far better than my old amps, Audio Research Ref. 250SE’s and easily compete with the higher echelon amplifiers in the marketplace today at a fraction of the cost. I will say with the full loom of Symphonic Line electronics I get great synergy that rewards me with great sound. Skanda, it will be interesting to hear your opinion of the 300’s.

Jonaiken,

Thanks for chiming in! What amplifiers did you consider and compare the SL Kraft before settling on them? Also, are yours the most recent MK3 version , or a previous ? Do amps require usage of the 20 Amp electrical outlet? Thanks again!

 

[jonaiken]

Jonaiken,

Thanks for chiming in! What amplifiers did you consider and compare the SL Kraft before settling on them? Also, are yours the most recent MK3 version , or a previous ? Do amps require usage of the 20 Amp electrical outlet? Thanks again!

Yes my Kraft 300‘s, which were manufactured earlier this year, are the latest MK3 Version. I used them on a dedicated 20 amp circuit. There were two pairs of mono-block amplifiers I considered before purchasing the 300’s including Tidal Audio’s Ferios Mono-blocks and D’Agostino Momentum 400 Mono-blocks. Both excellent amplifiers. The Tidal Ferios amplifiers with my Tidal Agoria speakers was one of the best combinations I ever heard to date. Over a year ago I borrowed a pair of D’Agostino M400’s from my local dealer and will state the M400’s are some of the most musical, dynamic and detailed amplifiers I have heard in my system. How do the the Kraft 300’s compare with the two. Hard to say because my system has evolved with the addition of the Taiko Audio Extreme Server, SR Powercell SX Power Conditioners and host of other upgrades which brings my system on par or close to what I heard from the systems with the two amplifiers. The Tidal Ferios and D’Agostino M400 are some of the best amplifiers you can buy for the money but at almost double the price of the Kraft 300’s. I would contend the Kraft 300’s are in their class or slightly below and a very good compromise if you don’t want to spend the money on the two other amplifiers. They provide over 300 watts pure Class A, can drive any speaker, and allow the emotion of the music to come through forcing you to be engaged with what you hear. On the negative side they don’t have the beauty, build quality and complexity of the Tidal and D’Agostino products but they can bring the music to you. Add the Symphonic Line RG3 MK5 Line Stage and Phono Reference HD Mk3 Phono Preamplifiers with the Turbo Power Supplies to the Kraft 300’s ......Magical

 

[AudioLibertarian]

Yes my Kraft 300‘s, which were manufactured earlier this year, are the latest MK3 Version. I used them on a dedicated 20 amp circuit. There were two pairs of mono-block amplifiers I considered before purchasing the 300’s including Tidal Audio’s Ferios Mono-blocks and D’Agostino Momentum 400 Mono-blocks. Both excellent amplifiers. The Tidal Ferios amplifiers with my Tidal Agoria speakers was one of the best combinations I ever heard to date. Over a year ago I borrowed a pair of D’Agostino M400’s from my local dealer and will state the M400’s are some of the most musical, dynamic and detailed amplifiers I have heard in my system. How do the the Kraft 300’s compare with the two. Hard to say because my system has evolved with the addition of the Taiko Audio Extreme Server, SR Powercell SX Power Conditioners and host of other upgrades which brings my system on par or close to what I heard from the systems with the two amplifiers. The Tidal Ferios and D’Agostino M400 are some of the best amplifiers you can buy for the money but at almost double the price of the Kraft 300’s. I would contend the Kraft 300’s are in their class or slightly below and a very good compromise if you don’t want to spend the money on the two other amplifiers. They provide over 300 watts pure Class A, can drive any speaker, and allow the emotion of the music to come through forcing you to be engaged with what you hear. On the negative side they don’t have the beauty, build quality and complexity of the Tidal and D’Agostino products but they can bring the music to you. Add the Symphonic Line RG3 MK5 Line Stage and Phono Reference HD Mk3 Phono Preamplifiers with the Turbo Power Supplies to the Kraft 300’s ......Magical

Thanks so much again! Do amps specifically require 20 Amp outlet, or you just had 20 Amp outlets installed for your dedicated audio room? ( The reason I ask is because I live in pre war NYC apartment building, where installing such a 20 AMP outlet is very complex&problematic to say the least). As far as the DAgostino, I ve compared the non Kraft series SL Rg-4 monoblocks to many Krells, and the RG-4 was always "better' sounding than any krell, imho. I've met Rolf Gemein, the SL designer on one ocassion and he is a brilliant mind in general, not just in audio... How long did it take to build a pair of the monoblocks? Also, these are not the FULL Class A 300 watts design, (for that much class A power they probably would weigh 300 pounds each! I d say run about first 25-30 sublime watts in Class A, then amps switch to the class AB, but in most of listening we generally use first few watts , so you most likely seldom hear A/B .... I will probably get a single stereo unit Kraft 300, should be plenty. In any event an awesome SL combo you ve gotten for yourself !

 

[jonaiken]

Thanks so much again! Do amps specifically require 20 Amp outlet, or you just had 20 Amp outlets installed for your dedicated audio room? ( The reason I ask is because I live in pre war NYC apartment building, where installing such a 20 AMP outlet is very complex&problematic to say the least). As far as the DAgostino, I ve compared the non Kraft series SL Rg-4 monoblocks to many Krells, and the RG-4 was always "better' sounding than any krell, imho. I've met Rolf Gemein, the SL designer on one ocassion and he is a brilliant mind in general, not just in audio... How long did it take to build a pair of the monoblocks? Also, these are not the FULL Class A 300 watts design, (for that much class A power they probably would weigh 300 pounds each! I d say run about first 25-30 sublime watts in Class A, then amps switch to the class AB, but in most of listening we generally use first few watts , so you most likely seldom hear A/B .... I will probably get a single stereo unit Kraft 300, should be plenty. In any event an awesome SL combo you ve gotten for yourself !

The amps do not require a 20 amp outlet and will work on a 15 amp outlet. I upgraded the circuit after purchasing the amplifiers. I was told the Krafts were a full class A design but will send Rolf an email to get clarity on the design. Never the less getting a Kraft 300 Stereo is an excellent choice and should be an awesome sounding unit. Much success

 

[AudioLibertarian]

The amps do not require a 20 amp outlet and will work on a 15 amp outlet. I upgraded the circuit after purchasing the amplifiers. I was told the Krafts were a full class A design but will send Rolf an email to get clarity on the design. Never the less getting a Kraft 300 Stereo is an excellent choice and should be an awesome sounding unit. Much success

HAve you had a chance to try the SL brand power cords and the speaker cables? Rolf claimed these were as "good" as any brand at any price, and go well with Krafts.....

 

[jonaiken]

HAve you had a chance to try the SL brand power cords and the speaker cables? Rolf claimed these were as "good" as any brand at any price, and go well with Krafts.....

No I have not but will inquire to try one

 

[jonaiken]

Also, these are not the FULL Class A 300 watts design, (for that much class A power they probably would weigh 300 pounds each! I d say run about first 25-30 sublime watts in Class A, then amps switch to the class AB, but in most of listening we generally use first few watts , so you most likely seldom hear A/B ....

AudioLibertarian, I did confirm with Rolf they are not full Class A and operate as you explained. Thanks

 

[Skanda]

Thanks so much again! Do amps specifically require 20 Amp outlet, or you just had 20 Amp outlets installed for your dedicated audio room? ( The reason I ask is because I live in pre war NYC apartment building, where installing such a 20 AMP outlet is very complex&problematic to say the least). As far as the DAgostino, I ve compared the non Kraft series SL Rg-4 monoblocks to many Krells, and the RG-4 was always "better' sounding than any krell, imho. I've met Rolf Gemein, the SL designer on one ocassion and he is a brilliant mind in general, not just in audio... How long did it take to build a pair of the monoblocks? Also, these are not the FULL Class A 300 watts design, (for that much class A power they probably would weigh 300 pounds each! I d say run about first 25-30 sublime watts in Class A, then amps switch to the class AB, but in most of listening we generally use first few watts , so you most likely seldom hear A/B .... I will probably get a single stereo unit Kraft 300, should be plenty. In any event an awesome SL combo you ve gotten for yourself !

@jonaiken, thank you for adding your experience. mine were manufactured earlier in the year too and I agree with the comments regarding dynamics, inner detailing, and soundstage. i hope to share a write up soon but i've been working 15hrs/day 6 days a week recently so i havent had time for much else. however, as things ease up i will deff put my thoughts together. also, in my experience, the taiko and sl have this crazy synergy (very unexpected and odd given server and amp - maybe its just letting more through to the amp or something) - as a fellow owner of the combo, would you agree? i feel the extreme brings that same type of sound to a system.

@AudioLibertarian i'm also in nyc. my unit isnt prewar but installing 20amps is still a pain (an electrician quoted me $800). for various other reasons i bought a torus avr unit. not their big in wall or in floor unit but one of the standalone ones thats a model below it or so. i'm able to run the kraft as well as most of my other gear (due to space/set up the taiko is a bit farther away on a separate outlet) through it with no sense of dynamic compression or anything like that. it lowered the noise floor quite nicely and i would reccommend it to a lot of my fellow city dwellers. it was certainly an upgrade over some hospital grade extrension chords i was using at the time, though my system had different gear back then. happy to answer more questions about that

 

[Skanda]

@jonaiken, i had been talking to klaus about the rg3 with turbo. what pre did you have before and how would you describe the synergy. i'm currently using a soulution 721 and love the pairing. trouble with SL here is that i have to buy blind so I haven't had a chance to experience the rg3