SS Amp Performance Characteristics

[Audiohertz2]

Go

I found some Musical Fidelity retailers in Oregon. I am driving through for Thanksgiving. I will call a few and see if any have a repair shop that can put the amp on a bench and test it for functionality.

Test bench , Good luck with that …. !

 

[Kingrex]

Go

Test bench , Good luck with that …. !

What do you mean? Isn't is a sound idea to at least test the amp to know if its functionally correct. I don't want to be that guy who unloads it onto another person if it does not work properly. I am not that person. Never will be. That's low character. If its broken, I can discuss with the seller. And would probably well it as parts only. I would at least note the issues.

That is part of the issue with the Audion. The amp was brought up to current spec and design. But, the Fing tech in Portland Oregon that worked on it decided to only make on of the 2 fully current. He decide the 2nd one was close enough and tested good enough. If I throw another $1000 at it, I can have the second one make current. That created a bid dilemma for me as I can not sell the amps in good conscious. Yet bringing the second up to match the first will never pay off the investment. So I am stuck.

 

[Audiohertz2]

I meant finding a dealer with a test bench…

 

[Al M.]

Practically everyone one I know with high sensitivity speakers has a SET on them...they have the funds to buy what they want and they don't choose PP tube or SS amps...

Of course, that's what you are "supposed to have" for high-sensitivity speakers. But have they tried all low- or medium-watt PP tube amps?

 

[morricab]

Wasn't one of you tearing Peter a new one over peak power being drawn from his amps, and he has 106db efficient speakers. My speakers are 96db. Far less than his. I am using a 40 watt amps. Maybe a touch more as I have a KT120 tube in it.

They person that made my amp also makes very fine SET. But he felt a SET did not have enough power to properly push my speakers. So I opted for the PP.
He did say he can make me a PP811. That would have more body. But currently my amps are monoblocks and weigh 78 lbs each. He said he would have to make larger amps that weighed even more.
Or he could go the other way and make EL34 amps like Jazdocs. Those are a little more lush than mine. Mine are more muscular. He could also put a Hashimoto output transformer in to replace the Monolith. They are also warmer but loose some detail. Amps seem to have trade off's.

It wasn't me, Peter's amp has plenty of shove for his, or your speakers for that matter. A PP 811 amp might be interesting because PP triode can sound quite good. BTW, a really good SET is never super lush...this is a symptom of either an inadequate output transformer, inadequate driver stage (845s are quite hard to drive compared to say a 211 or 300B), weak power supply or all of the above.

 

[morricab]

So Deaf people have money , discovery ?

It was precisely those people who could hear who made the move away from conventional speakers and SS amps...

 

[morricab]

Of course, that's what you are "supposed to have" for high-sensitivity speakers. But have they tried all low- or medium-watt PP tube amps?

It has absolutely nothing to do with "supposed to". It has to do with trying different things and finding what works the best. We have tried all manner of amps...every type you can imagine. I have tried PP SS, PP tube OTL, Class D on my horns and none sound as good as the SETs I have owned. As I told you once before, a friend of mine had Octave monoblocks with the super black box power supply addon. They were hard and glassy sounding by comparison to the good SET amps we tried after. One friend uses SET on his Apogee Studio Grand panels...42 watts is plenty for them (it's a rather beastly Amplifon SET 42SE GM70 amp where the tube is run to the limit).

VAC used to make some good PP triode amps using 300B. A bit on the warm side of neutral but with real grunt and slam and lovely tone. They still didn't beat the SETs that came after I sold it. We compared the CAT JL2 Signature, one of the better PP tube amps ever made against 211 based NAT SE2SEs on Apogees (Grand panels with Diva crossover) and the NATs were better.

The only amps that sonically were interesting against SETs were some of the OTLs I have owned/heard. I had Silvaweld OTL monos (100 watts per mono, 4 x 6C33C per mono) that sounded glorious when they held bias (which was rare) but got WAY too hot. Since they were just impractical I sold them. One other interesting amp was a NAT Symbiosis SE, which was a true tube, single ended transistor hybrid. It ran hot as the devil as well because the one output transistor per channel also had a voltage regulator transistor that ran just as hot! It could sound otherworldly good but only after playing for 2 hours...too impractical, so I sold it too. Neither sounded better than a really good SET like Aries Cerat...just different but clearly better than the PP tube and SS amps of this world.

 

[Kingrex]

I meant finding a dealer with a test bench…

Yea, I sort of doubted that too.

 

[Kingrex]

It wasn't me, Peter's amp has plenty of shove for his, or your speakers for that matter. A PP 811 amp might be interesting because PP triode can sound quite good. BTW, a really good SET is never super lush...this is a symptom of either an inadequate output transformer, inadequate driver stage (845s are quite hard to drive compared to say a 211 or 300B), weak power supply or all of the above.

Agree. Scott says it needs a 300B driver and a beter output trans. Lets throw another $8k at it. YAHOOO

 

[Al M.]

It has absolutely nothing to do with "supposed to". It has to do with trying different things and finding what works the best. We have tried all manner of amps...every type you can imagine. I have tried PP SS, PP tube OTL, Class D on my horns and none sound as good as the SETs I have owned. As I told you once before, a friend of mine had Octave monoblocks with the super black box power supply addon. They were hard and glassy sounding by comparison to the good SET amps we tried after. One friend uses SET on his Apogee Studio Grand panels...42 watts is plenty for them (it's a rather beastly Amplifon SET 42SE GM70 amp where the tube is run to the limit).

VAC used to make some good PP triode amps using 300B. A bit on the warm side of neutral but with real grunt and slam and lovely tone. They still didn't beat the SETs that came after I sold it. We compared the CAT JL2 Signature, one of the better PP tube amps ever made against 211 based NAT SE2SEs on Apogees (Grand panels with Diva crossover) and the NATs were better.

The only amps that sonically were interesting against SETs were some of the OTLs I have owned/heard. I had Silvaweld OTL monos (100 watts per mono, 4 x 6C33C per mono) that sounded glorious when they held bias (which was rare) but got WAY too hot. Since they were just impractical I sold them. One other interesting amp was a NAT Symbiosis SE, which was a true tube, single ended transistor hybrid. It ran hot as the devil as well because the one output transistor per channel also had a voltage regulator transistor that ran just as hot! It could sound otherworldly good but only after playing for 2 hours...too impractical, so I sold it too. Neither sounded better than a really good SET like Aries Cerat...just different but clearly better than the PP tube and SS amps of this world.

I was not talking about your experiences, but of those of other people who often seem to go with SETs on high-efficiency speakers, because that's what you're supposed to do.

***

BTW, if those Octave monoblocks were hard and glassy sounding, that's because of system mismatching and/or lack of proper setup. When my old Pass buffered passive preamp was driving my Octave power amp, the amp had stock power cords and my room was not yet sorted out, it could also sound hard and glassy. In my current configuration (see signature) that is not the case.

As you know, Octave can sound very good. You said so yourself recently upon experience of an Octave V40 integrated.

 

[morricab]

I was not talking about your experiences, but of those of other people who often seem to go with SETs on high-efficiency speakers, because that's what you're supposed to do.

***

BTW, if those Octave monoblocks were hard and glassy sounding, that's because of system mismatching and/or lack of proper setup. When my old Pass buffered passive preamp was driving my Octave power amp, the amp had stock power cords and my room was not yet sorted out, it could also sound hard and glassy. In my current configuration (see signature) that is not the case.

As you know, Octave can sound very good. You said so yourself recently upon experience of an Octave V40 integrated.

I am talking LOTs of people's experience...not just my own... As for the Octave, well it was ok for what it was...

 

[microstrip]

Practically everyone one I know with high sensitivity speakers has a SET on them...they have the funds to buy what they want and they don't choose PP tube or SS amps...

We often move between people who have the same preferences as us and take notice of those who own similar gear. By far the current more successful high efficiency brand in my country is AvantGarde and the best sound I have listened from them was always using solid state.

If we do a casual search on Avantgarde reviews in the net we see that most of them are carried with SS or pushpull amplifiers. The same way for the Klipsh, very popular in the US.

 

[wil]

We often move between people who have the same preferences as us and take notice of those who own similar gear. By far the current more successful high efficiency brand in my country is AvantGarde and the best sound I have listened from them was always using solid state.

If we do a casual search on Avantgarde reviews in the net we see that most of them are carried with SS or pushpull amplifiers. The same way for the Klipsh, very popular in the US.

As a former Avant-garde owner, I ended up preferring solid state amplifiers after being told over and over that only sets would do.

 

[morricab]

We often move between people who have the same preferences as us and take notice of those who own similar gear. By far the current more successful high efficiency brand in my country is AvantGarde and the best sound I have listened from them was always using solid state.

If we do a casual search on Avantgarde reviews in the net we see that most of them are carried with SS or pushpull amplifiers. The same way for the Klipsh, very popular in the US.

The only time I have heard Avantgarde with SS is their own amps or Itron and both sounded bad. The best I have heard Avantgarde sound is with SETs, either Thomas Mayer 211s or AudioPax M50s (I think that was the model) and recently the new Uno G3 with WestEnd Audio 300B amp. Marslo here on the WBF uses Ayon SET, first with his Duo Mezzo XD and now Trio XDs.

I demoed the Klipsch AL5 in Indiana a few years ago at a dealer and they were using a SET on it. I owned La Scalas back in the day and then I had SS amps on them but it wasn't a very good sound...just played loud, so good for parties.

 

[morricab]

As a former Avant-garde owner, I ended up preferring solid state amplifiers after being told over and over that only sets would do.

Well, every time I have heard them with SS amps it just takes their worst tendencies and cranks them up to 11.

 

[microstrip]

The only time I have heard Avantgarde with SS is their own amps or Itron and both sounded bad. The best I have heard Avantgarde sound is with SETs, either Thomas Mayer 211s or AudioPax M50s (I think that was the model) and recently the new Uno G3 with WestEnd Audio 300B amp. Marslo here on the WBF uses Ayon SET, first with his Duo Mezzo XD and now Trio XDs.

I demoed the Klipsch AL5 in Indiana a few years ago at a dealer and they were using a SET on it. I owned La Scalas back in the day and then I had SS amps on them but it wasn't a very good sound...just played loud, so good for parties.

Ok, we know you are a SET lover ...

We had threads on this particular subject before, no need to go over it again

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/avantgarde-loudspeakers-solid-state-or-tube-amps.33855/

 

[Al M.]

Ok, we know you are a SET lover ...

Who likes to drive the most unlikely speakers with SETs...

 

[DasguteOhr]

When you need low watt se or class a amps,there is no way around them

Valvet | Maxmedia

www.maxmedia.com.au

 

[Kingrex]

$199 just to test it. You know its headed too, spend more than it cost to make it sound, maybe better.

Sometimes I hate audio. It's all to often a disappointment.

 

[DasguteOhr]

$199 just to test it. You know its headed too, spend more than it cost to make it sound, maybe better.

Sometimes I hate audio. It's all to often a disappointment.

when you try out digital amplifiers, get a temple audio bantamgold amp sounds pretty nice

Temple Audio Bantam Gold. High Quality Digital Stereo Amplifier. Made in the UK

www.templeaudio.net