Spectral Amps - Without MIT Cables

[preachmtl]

Hi all,

This is my first post on WBF. I have been interested in Spectral Audio gear for years. However, the whole "guaranty is void" if used without the MIT Spectral cables have been somewhat of a turn off.

I was looking at a Spectral European dealer's website (apologies, the website is in French only) yesterday and it indicates that it isn't required to use the MIT-Spectral cable anymore.

Is anyone able to confirm this information? And does this apply only to the newer models?

This would be a game changer.

Regards,

D.

 

[GaryProtein]

Just get something else.

There is plenty of terrific equipment out there.

Screw Spectral.

 

[ack]

Hi all,

This is my first post on WBF. I have been interested in Spectral Audio gear for years. However, the whole "guaranty is void" if used without the MIT Spectral cables have been somewhat of a turn off.

I was looking at a Spectral European dealer's website (apologies, the website is in French only) yesterday and it indicates that it isn't required to use the MIT-Spectral cable anymore.

Is anyone able to confirm this information? And does this apply only to the newer models?

This would be a game changer.

Regards,

D.

Unable to confirm and fairly certain not true, call the factory for real information. They will also sound wrong with other cables, as others who have tried it and eventually converted to MIT can attest. I'd say, the brand is not for you.

 

[rallan]

I have had Spectral for many years and think it is some of the best out there and for fear of the Spectral police coming to my house and taking my equipment, I have used various cables that for the money and my ears sounds better than MIT. I suspect I would have to spend X2-3 times to get the same. It is my understanding that MIT's roll of the highs, so if you think you have bright sound speakers, you might try some other cables. Just don't tell any other Spectral owner! Unlike ack, I have not intention of returning to MIT.

 

[Steve Williams]

I have had Spectral for many years and think it is some of the best out there and for fear of the Spectral police coming to my house and taking my equipment, I have used various cables that for the money and my ears sounds better than MIT. I suspect I would have to spend X2-3 times to get the same. It is my understanding that MIT's roll of the highs, so if you think you have bright sound speakers, you might try some other cables. Just don't tell any other Spectral owner! Unlike ack, I have not intention of returning to MIT.

what cables do you use at present in lieu of MIT

 

[MadFloyd]

I have had Spectral for many years and think it is some of the best out there and for fear of the Spectral police coming to my house and taking my equipment, I have used various cables that for the money and my ears sounds better than MIT. I suspect I would have to spend X2-3 times to get the same. It is my understanding that MIT's roll of the highs, so if you think you have bright sound speakers, you might try some other cables. Just don't tell any other Spectral owner! Unlike ack, I have not intention of returning to MIT.

Old MIT cables might have rolled off the highs but I don't think current ones do (the ones I have certainly did not - they were the most extended cables I've ever heard).

 

[ack]

What madfloyd said. Moreover, I have all the treble energy I could ever hope for.

 

[rallan]

what cables do you use at present in lieu of MIT

Cardas and Morrow

 

[Maz65]

I was the author of another thead about Spectral and relative cabling, and I was more or less the same starting point of you.
What to say... maybe old MIT legends can be true, but recent matrix Spectral/MIT cables, not necessary the expensive ones, give to my system the most accurate tonal balance if compared to a mix of my old cables I tried (Cardas Clear, Kubala Sosna , Kimber).
This is my lesson learned.
Note that I recently upgraded my speakers fron Sonus Faber to Wilson (opposite phylosophy I can guess): no need to change cables, everything was fine at the first shot. Surprisingly for me because, in the old times before Spectral, changing cables after an equipment change was the everytime rule and not the exception....
-Max

 

[acousticsguru]

Hi all,

This is my first post on WBF. I have been interested in Spectral Audio gear for years. However, the whole "guaranty is void" if used without the MIT Spectral cables have been somewhat of a turn off.

I was looking at a Spectral European dealer's website (apologies, the website is in French only) yesterday and it indicates that it isn't required to use the MIT-Spectral cable anymore.

Is anyone able to confirm this information? And does this apply only to the newer models?

This would be a game changer.

Regards,

D.

PLEASE contact the factory as this is not what they told me last time I talked to the tech department there at all! Not sure what "Noir & Blanc" is up to making these claims. They're not listed as official importer on Spectral's web site, those are still Audio Graffiti in Italy (AFAIK the first/oldest in Europe), Audio Components in Germany, More Music in the Netherlands and PS Audio in Denmark. Also, the bass boom and treble roll-off of the earlier MIT/Spectral cables are now a thing of the past: the Ultralinear 3/MIT Matrix series generation no longer appear to detract from the sonic excellence of the Spectral components in any way whatsoever (= to say I'm happy with the upgrade would be an understatement - I could always see what MIT was trying to achieve, but not without noticing the drawbacks, whereas now, I've been listening for months, and no longer have any complaints). Note I'm personally using MIT Oracle Matrix 50 (a step up from the Spectral/MIT UL-350 Ultralinear III which corresponds to the MIT Matrix 36) and Matrix HD 60 (equivalent to Spectral/MIT UL-60 HD Ultralinear III), but the point is to use Spectral-approved cabling because the choke that would normally be part of the output circuitry of a power amp is integrated in the loudspeaker cable network box(es) (hence the term "terminator" used for the large(r) box in older models, as the circuitry otherwise lacks termination). Add to that, since the loudspeaker cables are not a low-inductive design to make up for the capacity of the interconnect, but both IC and SC are designed to preserve time- and phase-coherence, and the filters used to achieve this goal cannot feasibly be optimized in any other way than to make each and every cable sound neutral on its own (I used to design phase-shifting filters for different purposes, i.e. loudspeakers), in an MIT cable setup, the IC and SC do not compensate for each other (one might say the price one pays using phase-shifting filters is there's no predictable compensation for each other's deficiencies, as compensation affecting the frequency response will cause group delay problems and thus defeat the very purpose of net-working) - which is why it's pointless to use standard/non-networked LF (low-frequency) cables in conjunction with MIT (nothing to do with power cabling and digital - those may well be by another brand), as the frequency response will then be affected by the other cable (that is, a non-MIT loudspeaker cable may sound as if it had a treble roll-off, while in reality that treble roll-off is in fact due to the capacity of the non-networked IC etc.). In other words, the recommendation to use MIT LF cables in conjunction (again, nothing to do with digital or power cabling) has nothing to do with compensation - on the contrary, that's what "normal", i.e. non-networked cabling does (selected to compensate rather than be built for the purpose: standard LF cable combinations are random by comparison). In short, there is no mystery to what Spectral and MIT do: they're trying to build gear that does what it's supposed to do predictably (which philosophically speaking can be feasibly achieved only/most easily by emphasizing the neutral/flat behavior of each and every link in the chain).

I fail to see in what respect Spectral without MIT cabling, which already existed (the so-called "Universal" models, which Spectral fans agree sound inferior) would be a "game changer"? From a purely financial perspective? It's true that the amps would seem spectacularly competitive if it were not for the necessity of having to acquire MIT cables along with them - but sonically? I guess that depends upon one's definition of "perfection". I used to design/build loudspeakers, so perfection in cabling and amplification to me is no addition nor detraction to the signal (and I don't buy into all those attributes to the effect that Spectral sounds e.g. "fast" - it doesn't, it's merely that most amps have a more diminishing effect on reality). I wish I knew of a more affordable alternative that achieves this goal anywhere near the degree of perfection that Spectral does - but I don't.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

[bonzo75]

Hi David, what is the rest of your system - speakers, source, and which spectral amps/pre are you using?

 

[mullard88]

I've been using MasterBuilt ultra PC and SC with my DMA360. I've also used MasterBuilt ultra IC to feed my DMA 100S; and MasterBuilt signature from the DMA 100S to the speakers. They work very well. The sound is very detailed, natural, effortless, and so beautiful to my ears. I'm sharing this for those who wish to use their Spectral amplifiers with cables other than MIT and like me are willing to void the Spectral warranty.

 

[ack]

Sam, that's great and encouraging. A couple of questions:

1) The ramifications of not using MIT cables are to be evaluated over long periods of time, and are usually effected by the operating temperatures of the amps, as far as I recall. So did you amps run hotter that normal?
2) What MIT cables were you using?

 

[acousticsguru]

I've been using MasterBuilt ultra PC and SC with my DMA360. I've also used MasterBuilt ultra IC to feed my DMA 100S; and MasterBuilt signature from the DMA 100S to the speakers. They work very well. The sound is very detailed, natural, effortless, and so beautiful to my ears. I'm sharing this for those who wish to use their Spectral amplifiers with cables other than MIT and like me are willing to void the Spectral warranty.

I've used Audioforum (unbranded, of course) cables with older Spectral before, same source as I was told (I was "beta-testing" at the time, as some of those wires are made here - unfortunately I was never invited to visit the premises, all deemed "top-secret"), ultra-wide-band aerospace cabling, sound quality was fantastic (amazing time- and phase-coherence for a non-networked "just cable"), the sheer velocity a marvel to behold (people would spontaneously start chuckling in amazement), as was the soundstage (depth and height in particular), but I had a power amp oscillate and blow on me, now a burnt child, never again. Also, the technically safe combination of Oracle Matrix 50 and Matrix HD 60 sounds great, less wide-band perhaps, but more ample, perhaps larger-scaled, with greater emphasis on timbre, and as Tasos (aka "Ack") once pointed out, the way this combination puts the bass into the soundstage (or as I'd call it: the whole spectrum from top to bottom now emanates from where each one of the instruments is placed within the soundstage, something earlier generations of MIT cables weren't yet able to do in the bottom octaves) is unique. Some give and take, admittedly, but the bottom line is, I'm equally as happy with the sound I'm getting now, and confident in not blowing an amp again (thank goodness there was no harm to the speakers, my own design, seven years of relentless work and pondering, not to mention sleepless nights!). Also noticing an amp will barely run hand-hot to the touch with the latest generation MIT, i.e. cooler even than with Spectral Ultralinear II generation cables (whose bass and slight grain in the mids I remember were disappointing next to the last generation of aerospace cables). It may seem logical to use megahertz amps with ultra-wide-band cabling, but as far as I'm concerned, not going to take the risk anymore.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

[ack]

the whole spectrum from top to bottom now emanates from where each one of the instruments is place within the soundstage

Indeed, that's entirely true as far as I am concerned.

 

[mullard88]

ack,

1) No, the longest continuous listening time I had with the DMA 360 S2 was 9 hours. The amps' temperature were normal.
2) interconnect was the Oracle V 2.2. Speaker cable was the Oracle V 1.

 

[alecm]

The amps' temperature were normal.

What is the normal temperature? How to evaluate it?

 

[microstrip]

What is the normal temperature? How to evaluate it?

As far as I could understand people use the temperature to check for ultrasonic oscillating behavior of the amplifiers. IMHO it will only show extreme cases - if the oscillation level is in the class A zone the temperature should decrease.

 

[mullard88]

Hi David (acousticsguru),

On your post #10, may I ask which model(s) of Spectral electronics are you using?

 

[mullard88]

Hi David (acousticsguru),

On your post #14, I am sorry to read that your power amp oscillated and blew on you. May I ask what power amp is this that oscillated and blew on you?