Source or speakers?
- Thread starter DaveyF
- Start date
The thread is slowly evolving. We were asked what is more important, now people are answering what makes more difference, something completely different (and an important change)
Should we debate what are the important differences and then try to find the more efficient way of achieving them? IMHO most people enjoy what we simply call a well balanced sound. Easy to name, not so easy to define.
i took the meaning as; speakers\room are more important because they make the most difference.
ideally i would start with the room to be put in use, then choose speakers based on that room and based on my particular preferences for coloration. from there select components that will allow the speakers to perform to their full potential in that room. in reality, i'm a speaker-head and have always chosen speakers first and done what i could with optimization in whatever room they ended up in.
I believe in room acoustics, no matter how good the rest of the system is, you will never get it to sound as good as it could without acoustics.
Invest in your room first everything else comes second.
Invest in your room first everything else comes second.
+1.
However, assuming that the room is not to be considered as a component ( not sure we can do that, BUT!!) then it gets back to my belief that what is lost at the source cannot be regained later down the stream. So, in my way of thinking and in IT's ( who made some good money on this theory) that is what's most important. OTOH,If I were in the biz of selling all kinds of gear, I might think differently; as I wouldn't want my speaker manufacturer's or other gear manufacturer's to suffer by me selling front end gear as a primary, or by pushing this philosophy. Not saying that anyone here would do that of course!
If there was significant loss happening in modern source components, if there was variation in response between source components that was even in the same ballpark as the variation that's common, even among speakers in the same price range, this would make sense. But there's not. This is like saying the wheels are the most important component in a car, because if the wheels aren't round, no amount of suspension and drive train refinement can make up for that. True, of course. But there are no oval wheels, no squares or rectangles or pentagons; not on a Kia, not on a Bentley. Are they the same quality of wheels? No, but they are functionally identical compared to the things that really define the difference between a Kia and a Bentley.
Tim
Tim, sorry but I have to disagree...I believe there are still large differences between source components. Take the UHA RtoR deck as an example...compare that to your typical iPod or other "typical" ( or even high-end) digital source component and I believe you would hear a HUGE difference.
Even among analog front ends, there are many variables and abilities. IMHO.
And I disagree with you. Even something like an iPod in good dock or a cheap CD player will sound very decent over good speakers. But if you connect a Vivaldi set-up to a set of big box store speakers it will sound cheap.
I spent about 18 months on this subject visiting other systems and trying a variety of equipment here to work out where I felt I'd want to focus on my system for the future.
My conclusion, get a Room/Speaker/Amp synergy and it'll be musical and engaging with nigh on any source, albeit not always the highest fidelity. Get something wrong with the former and no matter what source you put in front it'll sound wrong. Just my experience
My conclusion, get a Room/Speaker/Amp synergy and it'll be musical and engaging with nigh on any source, albeit not always the highest fidelity. Get something wrong with the former and no matter what source you put in front it'll sound wrong. Just my experience
Is this conversation limited to tape? If so you've just excluded nearly all valid opinions.
Raise your hand if you have experience with big reel to reels. The four of you are welcome to continue discussing the importance of sources over speakers.
May be I'm tonedeaf, but the changes in SQ in my room resulting from major changes in electronics are of the same magnitude as changes in speaker. I would go as far as saying that inserting all shunyata power cabling wrought as much of a change as moving from Avalon Eidolon to Evolution Acoustics MM3.
Additionally, impact of difference in recording quality are of the same magnitude as well. So, yes everything matters, and speakers are but one component in the chain that make a difference.
Additionally, impact of difference in recording quality are of the same magnitude as well. So, yes everything matters, and speakers are but one component in the chain that make a difference.
I don't think so. That's not what Davey said, he just used tape as an example.
You are on the wrong forum to make that statement. My hand is raised and there are more than 4 other people here that will raise their hand.
The differences among analog source components are larger than digital, as they contain analog transducers (the big challenge). But the differences between good quality (and I'm not talking expensive, "high end") source components, even the difference between a good tape deck and an iPod, pales compared to the measurable, demonstrable and clearly audible differences from Martin Logans to Magicos to Wilsons, etc. These comparisons are not even in the ballpark. I suspect even the difference between JBLs and Revels - same company, same basic design goals - would be obvious compared to the autible differences between digital front ends. We can argue over the semantics of what "what's important" means, but you'll have a hard time coming up with any evidence that shows that competent source components, from midfi up, are even as variable as the best high-end speakers.
Tim
Let me make sure I'm clear: You're saying that changing power cable has a similar sonic impact as a change in recording quality?
Tim
We (a few friends and me) had an old Meridian 800 v2 and an Audio Research CD8 in my system, used with either the SoundLabs or the Alexia's. IMHO , the difference between the CD players was larger than that of the speakers in this case. Why? Because both speakers sounded great with the CD8 and both speakers sounded slow and boring with the Meridian 800 compared with the Audio Research player.
In "Asterix chez les Bretons" when Asterix tells his cousin Anticlimax that his boat is small he replies : "It's smaller than the garden of my uncle, but larger than the pen of my aunt." High-end audio does not seem so easy to measure.
We (a few friends and me) had an old Meridian 800 v2 and an Audio Research CD8 in my system, used with either the SoundLabs or the Alexia's. IMHO , the difference between the CD players was larger than that of the speakers in this case. Why? Because both speakers sounded great with the CD8 and both speakers sounded slow and boring with the Meridian 800 compared with the Audio Research player.
In "Asterix chez les Bretons" when Asterix tells his cousin Anticlimax that his boat is small he replies : "It's smaller than the garden of my uncle, but larger than the pen of my aunt." High-end audio does not seem so easy to measure.
I suppose isolated cases are possible, but I'd have to hear it for myself, unsighted, to really believe. And then I'd see if I could figure out which CD player was broken and performing way off spec.
Tim
Both CD players were performing faultless - the Meridian 800 sounded very decent in other systems.
There is a pretty wide range in variability between CD players and DACs. At the outputs you can have spec'ed lows of 1v to highs of 6v. This alone can change the gain staging of the entire system. One need not be broken to sound different. Given a particular system one would sound less wrong or more right depending on one's point of view. This without even going into discussions about things like filter implementation,architecture, etc.
I think what micro said above is very much my experience. Great source and you will still hear a reasonable sound from even marginal/poor speakers. Great speakers and a poor source, you won't have a clue what the speakers can do. BTW, I was using tape as an example ONLY. The UHA deck is IMHO one of the best, IF not the best, source that I have heard. BUT this conversation is certainly NOT limited to tape...vinyl and digital are also included.
Only way to hear a source at all is through speakers
No source and not much sound out of the speakers
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