Robert Koda K160 Amps are on their way finally!

[LL21]

To do this the amp
Is then leaving Class A earlier. I would not switch to the higher power setting unless you really need it.

HI Morricab,

Interesting...just so I am understanding correctly:
- the High setting enables the units to draw 550 watts per mono from the wall (instead of 400)
- the High setting moves 8ohm Class A rating from 150 watts to 230 watts
- I believe the High setting moves the 4ohm setting from 150 watts to 230 watts
- I believe the High Bias puts 120 Class A watts into 2 ohms (ie, half of the 4ohm 230Watt Class A rating)

As for the 2ohm load...i would imagine you still want High Bias.

The only time you would not switch on High Bias is if the speaker load is, for example, 8 ohms and 95db efficient and not calling for much power?

Is there something in your post which I am missing...would appreciate knowing if I am. You've got a lot more knowledge than I do about these things.

 

[morricab]

Hi Morricab,

Thank you. It is interesting...the Gryphon was filigreed, pure and of course muscular in its overall foundational sense of space, bass and power/dynamic capability. What is interesting is that in comparing it to great tubes, all sorts of other differences of course appear (and often I favored the Gryphon).

HOWEVER, when one compares the RK with the Gryphon, both being SS, that comparison reveals something I was not expecting. There now is clearly a nearly invisible rigidity to the Gryphon (NOT and I mean for me definitively NOT hardness to sound)...but more of a more rigid way with music.

The Robert Koda has a sense of suppleness even when its attack is frighteningly fast and loud. I have to let the amps break in and spend more time with the amps to understand better what I am hearing. I have not heard this before with an amp that can do both.

But I suppose this suppleness is where perhaps some of the purist cognoscenti of SET, etc would perhaps appreciate with greater experience than I.

Just out of curiosity, you mention “great tubes”, which amps might those be? You have never tried a SET or OTL on your speakers or on the X1s, right?

 

[morricab]

HI Morricab,

Interesting...just so I am understanding correctly:
- the High setting enables the units to draw 470 watts per mono from the wall (instead of 400)
- the High setting moves 8ohm Class A rating from 150 watts to 230 watts
- I believe the High setting moves the 4ohm setting from 150 watts to 230 watts

As for the 2ohm load...i would imagine you still want High Bias.

The only time you would not switch on High Bias is if the speaker load is, for example, 8 ohms and 95db efficient and not calling for much power?

Is there something in your post which I am missing...would appreciate knowing if I am. You've got a lot more knowledge than I do about these things.

Well perhaps I am not understanding the amp design correctly. Normally the power supply capacity is fixed and let’s say you can get 100 watts Class A power with it. If you now adjust the bias points on the transistors, you can get a lot more power by sacrificing how much is still in Class A. So if you drop to, say 10 watts class A then you might get 500 watts AB from the same basic amp. You are saying the power supply increases capacity, which implies they are limiting it perhaps to reduce power consumption when you don’t need the extra power. Do you think your speakers need more than 150 watts??

 

[LL21]

Just out of curiosity, you mention “great tubes”, which amps might those be? You have never tried a SET or OTL on your speakers or on the X1s, right?

I have heard a variety of ARC, CJ, Pathos, VTL, VAC over the years...and in terms of the ones that stick out in my memory (and may qualify)

- Ypsilon SET 100 - their reference SET monos
- Zanden Ref Monos (older generation) - push-pull, not SET?
- Shindo many, many years ago but cannot remember which one - SET generally?
- Kronzilla DX...many, many years ago on an SF Strad

I have heard some of these on big Wilsons and/or speakers I knew...but not all. As for 'at home'/'in system'...I have never been inspired enough by what I have heard to bring something home. In truth, I have never spent real time with SETs to feel like I have a good handle on them. And I am not sure I have ever heard OTL (Berning or Atmasphere are the only 2 I am aware of...and I have not heard either.)

 

[LL21]

Well perhaps I am not understanding the amp design correctly. Normally the power supply capacity is fixed and let’s say you can get 100 watts Class A power with it. If you now adjust the bias points on the transistors, you can get a lot more power by sacrificing how much is still in Class A. So if you drop to, say 10 watts class A then you might get 500 watts AB from the same basic amp. You are saying the power supply increases capacity, which implies they are limiting it perhaps to reduce power consumption when you don’t need the extra power. Do you think your speakers need more than 150 watts??

Thank you. Yes, that is correct...by switching to high, the units draw more power from the wall itself. So you are actually generating more power. And for now, Absolute Sounds have said to use it, as did Robert Koch himself when discussing our system. For now as we let it break in, I will leave everything...they are coming back in 10 days anyway to check in to see how things are going and possibly tweak the XLFs to calibrate more closely to the sound.

 

[LL21]

It has been a month since I got the Robert Koda K160 Monos after installing them i started burning them gently (cooking) for two weeks, the first two weeks on "normal power", after two weeks in "high power" mode and in the third third week I received my new power cords from wall two power strip and from power strip to K160 s first day when I installed the new Stealth Audio power cords the sound was spectacular at the picks that's possible in terms of dynamic contrast explosive potential in complex passages of Symphonic Music and Jazz specially well recorded Big Band music such as very good LPs from Duke Ellington Band or Johny Hodges with Billy Strayhorn or lets say CSO Conducted by Fritz Reiner Mussorgsky pictures at a exhibition... But on the second and third day the sound collapsed and became restless and days following the sound was changing all the day from bright to dark and cliché fright of every (experienced) Audiophile who know that cables and electronics sound very good from the start mostly and sound can turn into worst in a few days but it comes always better than it has started.

Know a month later last three days sound became stable no changes anymore maybe very micro in the coming few weeks but no big jumps and sound character and first time i feel i can write my findings on this master pieces.

For me the low and is very important its the foundation of music when Bass is not powerful fast articulated and in correct size whit the rest of the sound spectrum the music will not sing and flow like water the first thing i notice about the sound of K160 is the Bass the lowest octaves they are very fast powerful tuneful but articulated the Double Bass or Japanese Koda Drums or Timpani of a Symphonic orchestra are all tuneful powerful and in shape of the rest of instruments in Jazz music the Double bass comes from down under deep articulated and just whit the perfect size of energy and tight but not overly tight.

The Midrange is indispensable for the magic of music the midrange of K160as at least as good as the best SE amplifier pure open natural warmth (not tubby).The Midrange resolution on lower midrange and higher midrange is unheard.

The higher frequencies are lightening fast and have a slenderness that is full bodied the Cymbals sound like Cymbals you can feel the coper and tin.

The general sound is very very fast also the resolution is unbelievable high whit out loosing soul and musicality.The K160 are the highest resolution amps that i have heard they are very powerful on High-power mode you got 220 watt of pure class A but whit all those characteristics same time it remains intimate and keeps the single ended sound character on midrange and that makes it in my opinion so special and different than others....


I must admit whit this amps in my setup i hear now more than before the shortcomings of my setup and room and feel that i have to work more on my room acoustics and fine tuning of my system because i am pretty sure i didn't got the full potential of this creation there is still so much room for progression and whit the K160 in the hart of my system i have a long road to go the K160 amps will not forgive when its not right but when its definitely it will please.....

Hey Amadeus,

As you can imagine...I have gone STRAIGHT to this post as we now enter the 2nd day after 12 hours of listening yesterday well into the late hours...thanks for taking the time to write a little bit about your experiences during burn in. Yes, the 2nd day it has changed...just as you described...what a relief to read your posts!

 

[marty]

Hi Marty,

Certainly something you might wish to consider...230 watts into a speaker like yours I suspect...but effortless beyond effortless.

...more to come...

LLoyd,
My wife told me NOT to invite you over for dinner anytime soon.....
Seriously, I'm thrilled they are performing beautifully for you. Enjoy!
Marty

 

[gshelley]

Hi Lloyd,
Congratulations! Very exciting to see how the Kodas are performing In your system. You are a dedicated audiophile for sure. Dedicated to the best musical performance possible. Thanks for sharing the journey. I continue to learn from you and others here. Great stuff!

 

[LL21]

LLoyd,
My wife told me NOT to invite you over for dinner anytime soon.....
Seriously, I'm thrilled they are performing beautifully for you. Enjoy!
Marty

Fair enough! Thanks!

 

[Lagonda]

Well perhaps I am not understanding the amp design correctly. Normally the power supply capacity is fixed and let’s say you can get 100 watts Class A power with it. If you now adjust the bias points on the transistors, you can get a lot more power by sacrificing how much is still in Class A. So if you drop to, say 10 watts class A then you might get 500 watts AB from the same basic amp. You are saying the power supply increases capacity, which implies they are limiting it perhaps to reduce power consumption when you don’t need the extra power. Do you think your speakers need more than 150 watts??

My MBL 9011 have 3 power switches on the back, each activating its own set of transformers and capacitor banks. With high efficiency speakers you can run on 1 set of transformers.

 

[LL21]

Hi Lloyd,
Congratulations! Very exciting to see how the Kodas are performing In your system. You are a dedicated audiophile for sure. Dedicated to the best musical performance possible. Thanks for sharing the journey. I continue to learn from you and others here. Great stuff!

Hi GShelley,

We are all dedicated...otherwise, we would not be here! Look forward to updating at the next major burn in!

 

[LL21]

I was only referring to our online interactions

These are products worth waiting for. I’m looking forward to receiving the K-15 EX myself early next year.

/ Marcus, www.perfect-sense.se

By the way, Marcus, I just checked out your website again...it has been a while. W-O-W! You have E-X-P-A-N-D-E-D!!! Congratulations - had I known you were selling Riviera...I would been tempted to ask you about their magnificent headphone amp. In some respects, I am glad I did not...I know how much they cost!!! Quote a collection you have built up there of fantastic designs/brands...well done!

 

[Lagonda]

By the way, Marcus, I just checked out your website again...it has been a while. W-O-W! You have E-X-P-A-N-D-E-D!!! Congratulations - had I known you were selling Riviera...I would been tempted to ask you about their magnificent headphone amp. In some respects, I am glad I did not...I know how much they cost!!! Quote a collection you have built up there of fantastic designs/brands...well done!

He is very active on facebook too ! And has a great selection of used gear, those Swedes change gear like others change underwear !

 

[LL21]

I will have to check out the 2nd hand selection then for future reference! Thanks!

 

[LL21]

UPDATE: 40 Hours
- Well, we clearly broke thru some ground
- Bass arrived, went and came back
- But resolution has opened up remarkably...
- the comparison of the uplift from D'Agostino Progression to Gryphon Mephisto being the same again from Gryphon Mephisto to Robert Koda K160 I think may not be quite fair to the Robert Koda K160...the Robert Koda appears to be pulling away from the Mephistos in performance at quite a startling rate this evening and this means the difference in its performance above the Gryphon Mephisto may be even greater...

SAMPLE
- Eric Clapton Unplugged, 4th Track: Tears in Heaven (regular CD, not remastered)
- There is a keyboard waaaay in the background, you hear it during the capitulation or other moments in the song...for the first time EVER, I can sit back and listen to the keyboard all the way thru the whole piece. For my experience, that is great levels of resolution...it is playing its own lyrical trill of notes up and down throughout the song as a kind of counterpoint in harmony to the strings. I never even knew that constant trill of notes throughout the piece even existed

As for bass...well, I am still going to reserve judgment given that the Mephisto is renown for its foundational bass. However, early signs were good...last 48 hours not so much...and then suddenly last 5 hours remarkably promising...

...more to come...

 

[nickif]

Congrats Lloyd! This is a keeper for life assuming m that you can tame your curiosity along the way

 

[joaovieira]

UPDATE: 40 Hours
- Well, we clearly broke thru some ground
- Bass arrived, went and came back
- But resolution has opened up remarkably...
- the comparison of the uplift from D'Agostino Progression to Gryphon Mephisto being the same again from Gryphon Mephisto to Robert Koda K160 I think may not be quite fair to the Robert Koda K160...the Robert Koda appears to be pulling away from the Mephistos in performance at quite a startling rate this evening and this means the difference in its performance above the Gryphon Mephisto may be even greater...

SAMPLE
- Eric Clapton Unplugged, 4th Track: Tears in Heaven (regular CD, not remastered)
- There is a keyboard waaaay in the background, you hear it during the capitulation or other moments in the song...for the first time EVER, I can sit back and listen to the keyboard all the way thru the whole piece. For my experience, that is great levels of resolution...it is playing its own lyrical trill of notes up and down throughout the song as a kind of counterpoint in harmony to the strings. I never even knew that constant trill of notes throughout the piece even existed

As for bass...well, I am still going to reserve judgment given that the Mephisto is renown for its foundational bass. However, early signs were good...last 48 hours not so much...and then suddenly last 5 hours remarkably promising...

...more to come...

Good tip. I went to listen this Eric Clapton track and the keyboard is very much present starting at 56s.

 

[LL21]

Good tip. I went to listen this Eric Clapton track and the keyboard is very much present starting at 56s.

Wow...you were more specific than I was! Now I need to go back and check!

 

[LL21]

Good tip. I went to listen this Eric Clapton track and the keyboard is very much present starting at 56s.

Excellent! Thanks for your very specific work...I went back. So the startling part (for me anyway) was where the keyboard starts at 2:18 and then carries on clearly thru 2:35 and beyond...particularly during the slight crescendo at 2:31. I heard the keyboard playing along on its own very delicately, and I admit I was pleasantly surprised because in all these years of using it as a test CD and test track, I had never heard that before where I could ignore the crescendo and hear the keyboard. Hope that helps...my extra little listening note/reference.

 

[amadeus]

Dear Lloyd congratulations whit your amps finally you have them!

The burn-inn of the K160 s will take some time in my experiences if you live them on every day minimum 5 hours they really need one full month the break inn.

High power mode is sounding better on k160 s even if you do not need this added power also when you play in moderate levels the tonality and fluidity is just better on high power than on low power!
Let me explain it this way if i where using the K160s on very high sensitivity horn loudspeakers by example where you will need only 12 pure class A watts i would use it still on High power mode....

-Did you connect your K160s to the Tripoint because it really makes the k160 a better amp if you do!
-Also the K160 is very sensible to power cords what power cords are using?