Robert Koda K160 Amps are on their way finally!

[andromedaaudio]

If i would seriously spend 100-200 K on amplifiers im certainly not letting my self be restricted /influenced by one certain individual .

 

[LL21]

View attachment 105248

So I received the review today and read thru it...will no doubt re-read to glean some of the more detailed commentary from Alan. Overall, his summary "the best and most powerful single-ended triode ever made" that does not happen to use any sort of triodes.

At 235 watts/channel pure Class A into a 4ohm load (the XLFs more or less), that is an interesting way to describe this amp.

Overall, as I have gotten to know this amp over the last year or so, I will say this:
- Prior to the Robert Koda K160, we had 12 years of consecutive ownership of Gryphon amps...also pure Class A into anywhere from 150-175 watts into an 8ohm load
- I have also spent time with the [much older] Boulder 2060 and the much much much older Forte 4, and a few others that focused on Class A amplification designs

The Robert Kodas do not give off the persona of the all-out brute amplifiers of the Gryphon/Boulder class which exude that all-out tectonic power. Instead, the Robert Koda K160 forte is:
- a remarkably unassuming and effortless purity; all the detail, balance, nuance is there in far greater amounts than the mighty Mephisto...but it comes across as 'just ordinary course of business'...no bombast, no heightened senses...just there.
- yes, a significant amount of on-tap power to drive volumes of sensitive speakers well into the range of beyond on dynamic passages without any sense of 'peak limits'...which is strange because when you DO hit loud passages and dynamic power, you find yourself pleasantly surprised when it happens because during softer/moderate levels, all of the dynamics, nuance and control come across as uncannily unassuming, truly down-to-earth.
- But with 235 watts on tap for 4ohms, it is fun to hear dinosaurs roaming during film passages.

I do not have that much experience with single-triodes, never having had speakers that could do them real justice...even the 95db, easy load X1/Grand SLAMMS loved soaking up high quality power so I did not dabble in SETs with them though I probably could have.

But from my understanding of the SET ethos of purity through simplicity of circuitry, Alan Sircom's summation seems entirely consistent to me.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I do not have that much experience with single-triodes, never having had speakers that could do them real justice..

I dont think you missed much , my guess is the only one worth investigating would be LAMM .

so I did not dabble in SETs with them though I probably could have.

There is probably a reason for it you didnt , it seems to me that " getting the SET thing " is merely a way for reviewers to express their high standards .
Its outdated imo , many high power tube designs these days have the tube magic and then some .
Besides the CAT ( that i like ) , i think of Octave Jubilee, ARC Ref 160 M , Zanden 9600.
Best bang for buck SOTA amplification,..... the ARC and Zanden can be had for 20 K second hand

I think your Robert kodas might have more definition , tubes have a tendency to smooth things over bit

 

[LL21]

I dont think you missed much , my guess is the only one worth investigating would be LAMM .


There is probably a reason for it you didnt , it seems to me that " getting the SET thing " is merely a way for reviewers to express their high standards .
Its outdated imo , many high power tube designs these days have the tube magic and then some .
Besides the CAT ( that i like ) , i think of Octave Jubilee, ARC Ref 160 M , Zanden 9600.
Best bang for buck SOTA amplification,..... the ARC and Zanden can be had for 20 K second hand

I think your Robert kodas might have more definition , tubes have a tendency to smooth things over bit

From my limited experience with Zanden 9600 amps (which are very special), I would say yes the Robert Kodas probably are much more resolved, more resolute and more powerful. That is extremely hard to do when aiming for purity and ultimate ease. The premium of design, build (and cost) goes way up. But as you have heard with the Gryphon Apex, the extraordinary measures that certain designers will go to can be well worth the effort for those who treasure it.

 

[andromedaaudio]

If all goes well i ll be going to Munchen again in may .
I am gonna try to investigate the high $$ , SS versus Tube topic some more .

 

[andromedaaudio]

From my limited experience with Zanden 9600 amps (which are very special), I would say yes the Robert Kodas probably are much more resolved, more resolute and more powerful. That is extremely hard to do when aiming for purity and ultimate ease. The premium of design, build (and cost) goes way up. But as you have heard with the Gryphon Apex, the extraordinary measures that certain designers will go to can be well worth the effort for those who treasure it.

Sure , but unless i have had the Robert Koda / Gryphon APEX in my system for a certain amount of time , i really can t make any definitive statements as to them being more natural / better then my CAT .

When i spin a Acoustic sounds tape like Hugh masekela on my telefunken machine , i miss absolutely nothing ( for a fraction of the price .)
Experimenting with this kind of high $$ gear can easily turn into a bad deal , im quit conservative

 

[LL21]

Sure , but unless i have had the Robert Koda / Gryphon APEX in my system for a certain amount of time , i really can t make any definitive statements as to them being more natural better then my CAT .

When i spin a Acoustic sounds tape like Hugh masekela on my telefunken machine , i miss absolutely nothing ( for a fraction of the price .)
Experimenting with this kind of high $$ gear can easily turn into a bad deal , im quit conservative

Fair enough!

 

[andromedaaudio]

Plus i m also an investor ( money in gear is dead money )
But that might change a bit , may be next year

 

[Lagonda]

If i would seriously spend 100-200 K on amplifiers im certainly not letting my self be restricted /influenced by one certain individual .

Time to put your money where your mouth is Dutchy, Gryphon of Denmark is waiting for your Apex order. The Danish tax department needs some extra income !

 

[LL21]

Time to put your money where your mouth is Dutchy, Gryphon of Denmark is waiting for your Apex order. The Danish tax department needs some extra income !

I remember someone saying something similar to me (Spirit, I believe) after I got the Robert Koda K15EX...and then started asking about K160. And the rest is history!

 

[spiritofmusic]

Lloyd, talk is cheap, whereas Koda amps are, um, well...

 

[LL21]

Lloyd, talk is cheap, whereas Koda amps are, um, well...

...dear, I think is the word! They are, but they are also exceptional. I would genuinely not use them with all-out power hungry monster speakers...never tried so I could be flat out wrong. But anything else, and these would drive them extraordinarily well...and sensitive speakers, absolutely.

Interestingly, AudioExotics in HK use them to drive the 98-db efficient Divin Majestic which is monstrously big...7.5 feet tall, 31 inches wide (dual 18 woofers per channel, D'Appolito configuration) and 45 inches deep.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Time to put your money where your mouth is Dutchy, Gryphon of Denmark is waiting for your Apex order. The Danish tax department needs some extra income !

200 KG stereo amp / heavy lifting versus 2 easy to lift 45 KG R Koda amps .
Also you need a special wall socket for the Gryphon afaik.

I wanted to hear the Gryphon Apex again at Ultimate audio Lisbon , but at the time i was there the gryphon amp had already left ( Boulder 3060 instead )
I hope to hear both the R Kodas and Gryphon again in Munchen.

But as a sheer Class A all out power assault on the senses i reckon the Gryphon takes the prize

 

[LL21]

200 KG stereo amp / heavy lifting versus 2 easy to lift 45 KG R Koda amps .
Also you need a special wall socket for the Gryphon afaik.

I wanted to hear the Gryphon Apex again at Ultimate audio Lisbon , but at the time i was there the gryphon amp had already left ( Boulder 3060 instead )
I hope to hear both the R Kodas and Gryphon again in Munchen.

But as a sheer Class A all out power assault on the senses i reckon the Gryphon takes the prize

Knowing the Antileon, Colosseum and Mephisto well, my gut says for all out power assault, I would agree the Gryphon Apex takes the prize. And as someone for whom detail is not a primary focus and who by contrast loves effortlessness and deep propulsive bass, Gryphon sound is a remarkable sound for me. Powerful, effortless, tonally quite rich and with loads of capability to separate, delineate and enable details to spring forth. If you like the sound it is also a set it and forget it amp, mainly because that signature is so engrained, it powers through the entire system chain.

With the right speaker load, the Robert Kodas present a simple purity (deceptively simple) that is absolutely startling in a side by side comparison...and at least in comparison to the Mephisto, allow far more nuance, detail to float up into the room from the music. It was the first amp EVER after several months which recalibrated my ear and still had me wondering 'who was right' in the reproduction of music. In the end, I made my choice that the Robert Koda's level of nuance, subtlety of inflection and the ability not to 'balance' lots of complex orchestral work (because balance suggest the amp is actively doing something to the music)...but instead the amps' ability to somehow amplify all the complexity in such a way that all the individual music themes and strands come OUT of the amp exactly the way they came IN to the amp from the (also exceptional) Robert Koda K15EX preamp was what was compelling and decisive winning factor about the Robert Kodas.

As for all-out assault power, with 235 watts of pure Class A power (into 4ohms) on the Robert Kodas, I was not sure exactly what to expect on 'pure grunt capability' which was my only quandry when they first came in for audition. What surprised me was that on tracks like Dark Knight (soundtrack by Hans Zimmer), the Robert Kodas went very noticeably DEEPER than the Mephisto with GREATER power. Where the Gryphons battled back was in the upper and mid bass and lower mids they present a more deep, powerful and dense music flow which breathes life into music in a very special way. The question (for the first time ever for me) was whether relative to the all out purity of the Robert Koda I actually started to question whether that touch of life from the Gryphon was a stylistic design touch or not. I am not sure I know the answer, and if I still had the Gryphon...I am not sure I would care. It sounds great.

But in the end, the Robert Kodas are exceptional and pure in so many ways, I think Alan Sircom's recent sum up that it was the world's most powerful SET triode amp (without tubes) is probably the way I think about it. And that sounds pretty good to me.

Do let us know what you think about the Apex and Koda K160 when you hear them in Munich!

 

[andromedaaudio]

Do let us know what you think about the Apex and Koda K160 when you hear them in Munich!

Off course !

Nice sum up by the way , i was watching an interview with robert koda where he stated that he likes to make products which will stand the test of time , iow looks and Sound quality that will grow on the listener over time .
Simple and classic looks / efficient design.

He also stated the K10 was probably his favorite design due to a certain design/ circuit simplicity. he could achieve in that product

 

[LL21]

Off course !

Nice sum up by the way , i was watching an interview with robert koda where he stated that he likes to make products which will stand the test of time , iow looks and Sound quality that will grow on the listener over time .
Simple and classic looks / efficient design.

He also stated the K10 was probably his favorite design due to a certain design/ circuit simplicity. he could achieve in that product

Thank you. Interesting about Robert...and certainly sounds consistent with the sound his designs make and my own personal 'voyage of discovery' as i have gotten to listen more and more.

 

[marty]

Gotta admire the Koda gear. What I would love to see is their superb K15EX pre-amp...with a damn remote control!
Is that too much to ask??

 

[marmota]

Gotta admire the Koda gear. What I would love to see is their superb K15EX pre-amp...with a damn remote control!
Is that too much to ask??

+1
I would love to see an integrated with trickled down tech from the K160 and the K10-15 preamps, with remote control too and at a lower price point (around 20-30k, like other high end integrateds from ie Vitus or Dartzeel to name a few). That would be awesome.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Knowing the Antileon, Colosseum and Mephisto well, my gut says for all out power assault, I would agree the Gryphon Apex takes the prize. And as someone for whom detail is not a primary focus and who by contrast loves effortlessness and deep propulsive bass, Gryphon sound is a remarkable sound for me. Powerful, effortless, tonally quite rich and with loads of capability to separate, delineate and enable details to spring forth. If you like the sound it is also a set it and forget it amp, mainly because that signature is so engrained, it powers through the entire system chain.

Agreed you could well be right since you have much more expericience then i have with Gryphon and R koda ,but the Antileon, Colosseum and Mephisto are not a class A monster like the New Apex .
Gryphon probably has applied new circuitry as well in the new design

The Gryphon did have me rethink the whole power issue again in a positive sense

 

[John T]

Knowing the Antileon, Colosseum and Mephisto well, my gut says for all out power assault, I would agree the Gryphon Apex takes the prize. And as someone for whom detail is not a primary focus and who by contrast loves effortlessness and deep propulsive bass, Gryphon sound is a remarkable sound for me. Powerful, effortless, tonally quite rich and with loads of capability to separate, delineate and enable details to spring forth. If you like the sound it is also a set it and forget it amp, mainly because that signature is so engrained, it powers through the entire system chain.

With the right speaker load, the Robert Kodas present a simple purity (deceptively simple) that is absolutely startling in a side by side comparison...and at least in comparison to the Mephisto, allow far more nuance, detail to float up into the room from the music. It was the first amp EVER after several months which recalibrated my ear and still had me wondering 'who was right' in the reproduction of music. In the end, I made my choice that the Robert Koda's level of nuance, subtlety of inflection and the ability not to 'balance' lots of complex orchestral work (because balance suggest the amp is actively doing something to the music)...but instead the amps' ability to somehow amplify all the complexity in such a way that all the individual music themes and strands come OUT of the amp exactly the way they came IN to the amp from the (also exceptional) Robert Koda K15EX preamp was what was compelling and decisive winning factor about the Robert Kodas.

As for all-out assault power, with 235 watts of pure Class A power (into 4ohms) on the Robert Kodas, I was not sure exactly what to expect on 'pure grunt capability' which was my only quandry when they first came in for audition. What surprised me was that on tracks like Dark Knight (soundtrack by Hans Zimmer), the Robert Kodas went very noticeably DEEPER than the Mephisto with GREATER power. Where the Gryphons battled back was in the upper and mid bass and lower mids they present a more deep, powerful and dense music flow which breathes life into music in a very special way. The question (for the first time ever for me) was whether relative to the all out purity of the Robert Koda I actually started to question whether that touch of life from the Gryphon was a stylistic design touch or not. I am not sure I know the answer, and if I still had the Gryphon...I am not sure I would care. It sounds great.

But in the end, the Robert Kodas are exceptional and pure in so many ways, I think Alan Sircom's recent sum up that it was the world's most powerful SET triode amp (without tubes) is probably the way I think about it. And that sounds pretty good to me.

Do let us know what you think about the Apex and Koda K160 when you hear them in Munich!

Very nice comprehensive evaluation...