Robert Harley's Room

[Lee]

If I may. First get the bones right. Get dedicated 20 amp lines for the outlets to be used for the gear in the room. Have that isolated from all electrical devices such as dimmers etc. Make sure that the HVAC is quiet and will not interfere. I suggest linear diffusers. Your HVAC guy will know what that is. Do you have the dimensions of the completed space including windows doors etc? You can take those and have computer modeling of the room done and have an idea of what will be required for treatment. THis is not expensive particularly if you are working with a dealer to do your project. This will give you a good start. Best of luck

To expand on Elliot’s good advice, Vicoustic offers a 200 euro room analysis service that I found to be valuable.

 

[JiminGa]

Welcome to WBF! That sounds like a very exciting project!

My personal view is that whatever sonic equation professional acousticians are solving for it usually, if not always, results in over-damped, slightly lifeless listening rooms.

It doesn't make sense to me to outfit fully with acoustic treatment a dedicated listening room without hearing and measuring how one's actual loudspeaker system in the context of one's actual audio system actually sounds subjectively and performs objectively in that room. Full acoustic treatment in advance makes even less sense to me if one does not know which loudspeakers one will be installing in the room.

I think it makes sense to build solid, rigid and structurally sound walls and floor and ceiling. I think natural brick and natural hardwood are good interior wall materials. But I am glad I did not build into the walls, floor and ceiling, and bake irreversibly into the cake, a lot of absorption.

Absolutely correct !

 

[microstrip]

To expand on Elliot’s good advice, Vicoustic offers a 200 euro room analysis service that I found to be valuable.

Can we have more details on what you have been delivered?

 

[microstrip]

Building a home right now. Will have a room that is for listening and having glasses of wine with my wife. I have found including her in the process has increased my buying power on my new equipment. I am new to the hifi game. I started out from an educational perspective below novice and now maybe a little above novice. I really get a lot from reading all the post on here. Have dedicate line to the room with subpanel in closet next to the room. Doing the Isowall system in the room. My worry is too much treatment in the room and thus when the home is completed and the new purchases are moved into the room, I am going to do no treatments and work from there. Actually will try to some corner traps just because of the geometry of the room. Maybe set a few things on shelves for reflection points as well. My question is how do you add acoustics to the room as far as listening quality. I mean with cables there seems to be an order of importance that many agree upon. Do u just do a sweep of the room and then adjust to your preference or any other advice you may have. TIA.

Until you have a room built read and listen as much as you can about the subject. It is a contradictory subject where everyone loves to be an expert - muself inclusive.surely - be prepared for nigh and day opinions. My advice is just after having the room built have it measured by an independent acoustician or meanwhile get a calibrated microphone, a decent soundcard and REW to get these measurements. They will not teach you how to treat the room but they will get you a good insight of its general acoustics and any particular issues that can need acoustic correction.

 

[microstrip]

(...) My personal view is that whatever sonic equation professional acousticians are solving for it usually, if not always, results in over-damped, slightly lifeless listening rooms. (...)

I would fully agree with you if was not for the generic "usually, if not always" ,
Although this is the case for for acosuticians that are mostly involved in professional acoustics and studios, we have many reports of excellently treated rooms and competent people able to do it.

But surely people usually choose their doctors, audiophile should choose their acousticians. I know many I would avoid ...

 

[Elliot G.]

Every room I’ve experienced done by acousticians has been very poor , dead and lifeless . My room vendor will do computer modeling of the room and provides complete graphs charts and completed 3 d renderings
I have done almost a dozen of these and everyone sounded great

 

[gleeds]

Elliot will confirm once the room is done, add treatment slowly, and seek advice from a capable dealer. Audio is very different from home theatre. So make sure you consult with an audio dealer with deep experience who won't sell you more treatment than you need. Elliot, do you know someone that fits the description

Someone know which cables (Speakers, Interconnect) are used in the RH system?

Audioquest topline, with digital connections being Wadax optical for streamer and CD player. For grounding he uses Shunyata.

 

[microstrip]

Every room I’ve experienced done by acousticians has been very poor , dead and lifeless . My room vendor will do computer modeling of the room and provides complete graphs charts and completed 3 d renderings
I have done almost a dozen of these and everyone sounded great

Just almost a dozen great sounding rooms in a lifetime ... Aren't you being too demanding in your assessment?

 

[Audiohertz2]

Designing listening rooms can be a huge can of worms , no thank you ..!

BTW , Jay is learning it all about now

 

[Stevet]

Building a home right now. Will have a room that is for listening and having glasses of wine with my wife. I have found including her in the process has increased my buying power on my new equipment. I am new to the hifi game. I started out from an educational perspective below novice and now maybe a little above novice. I really get a lot from reading all the post on here. Have dedicate line to the room with subpanel in closet next to the room. Doing the Isowall system in the room. My worry is too much treatment in the room and thus when the home is completed and the new purchases are moved into the room, I am going to do no treatments and work from there. Actually will try to some corner traps just because of the geometry of the room. Maybe set a few things on shelves for reflection points as well. My question is how do you add acoustics to the room as far as listening quality. I mean with cables there seems to be an order of importance that many agree upon. Do u just do a sweep of the room and then adjust to your preference or any other advice you may have. TIA.

Wise man to include your Wife from the beginning. Many of us do not do as good of a job with that as we could, but we learn.

You might want to consider getting some advise from an acoustician. There are acousticians out there who will not over damp your room, but still offer some key and important advise. For example, I have been to Bob Vineyard's studio (Rhapsody dealer in Portland, Oregon) and the acoustician he used did a great job of listening to Bob and advising him and not over damping the room.

Regarding learning content, there is a lot on You Tube as well. And of course there are some really good dealers out there to assist you. And you can learn a lot from attending an audio show or two, even though the sound of many rooms is not up to par for a number of reasons. Some, but certainly not all, manufacturers are also very welcoming and have a lot to offer.

Finally, I think it is good to avoid the temptation of starting from the top and instead starting with a very good basic system and then build up/replace from there. There is a lot to be learned in doing so.

Finally, while it is really ideal to have a purpose built room, it is also good to be thinking about a second, perhaps more modest, system in a more multipurpose type room which perhaps provides for more socialization and multi-tasking, obviously with the Wife's input and consent.

 

[Stevet]

If I may. First get the bones right. Get dedicated 20 amp lines for the outlets to be used for the gear in the room. Have that isolated from all electrical devices such as dimmers etc. Make sure that the HVAC is quiet and will not interfere. I suggest linear diffusers. Your HVAC guy will know what that is. Do you have the dimensions of the completed space including windows doors etc? You can take those and have computer modeling of the room done and have an idea of what will be required for treatment. THis is not expensive particularly if you are working with a dealer to do your project. This will give you a good start. Best of luck

While you are at it and have the flexibility to do it, I would also advise at least two 30 amp dedicated lines. There is equipment, especially some of the higher powered amps, which really benefits from or in fact needs 30 amp lines. Think Boulder 2100 and especially the 3000 series amps for example. And stay away from aluminum wire and instead go with good stout copper wire. Having the best reasonably possible electricity to feed your equipment is super beneficial.

 

[Lee]

Can we have more details on what you have been delivered?

I’m on vacation but there is a nice 3D render of my room which I can share later. If the report is on my ipad, I may be able to share it.

It’s a multi-page acoustics report that includes graphs of current performance and expected performance improvements after suggested treatments.

The report is done after all the details of the listening room are uploaded to Vicoustic. It is actually quite tedious as Vicoustic wants to know every nook and cranny including depth of windows, shades, etc.

 

[Lee]

Wise man to include your Wife from the beginning. Many of us do not do as good of a job with that as we could, but we learn.

You might want to consider getting some advise from an acoustician. There are acousticians out there who will not over damp your room, but still offer some key and important advise. For example, I have been to Bob Vineyard's studio (Rhapsody dealer in Portland, Oregon) and the acoustician he used did a great job of listening to Bob and advising him and not over damping the room.

Regarding learning content, there is a lot on You Tube as well. And of course there are some really good dealers out there to assist you. And you can learn a lot from attending an audio show or two, even though the sound of many rooms is not up to par for a number of reasons. Some, but certainly not all, manufacturers are also very welcoming and have a lot to offer.

Finally, I think it is good to avoid the temptation of starting from the top and instead starting with a very good basic system and then build up/replace from there. There is a lot to be learned in doing so.

Finally, while it is really ideal to have a purpose built room, it is also good to be thinking about a second, perhaps more modest, system in a more multipurpose type room which perhaps provides for more socialization and multi-tasking, obviously with the Wife's input and consent.

Be careful with YouTube “experts” as there is a lot of bad information too. Including a lot of nonsense about equilateral speaker placement.

 

[Stevet]

Be careful with YouTube “experts” as there is a lot of bad information too. Including a lot of nonsense about equilateral speaker placement.

That is good advise regarding all sites.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

advise at least two 30 amp dedicated lines

...if you mean 10 gauge wire, I agree. True 30 amp line is a different matter, re: breaker rating and which outlets are required.

Preferably, 10 gauge THHN solid core, although some folks might prefer stranded. You can find guidance on twist rate, as well as conduit options. #10 Romex if you must. Not the end of the world, IMO. The length of the run is also a component in the wire-size selection (or requirement). Have fun!

 

[microstrip]

I’m on vacation but there is a nice 3D render of my room which I can share later. If the report is on my ipad, I may be able to share it.

It’s a multi-page acoustics report that includes graphs of current performance and expected performance improvements after suggested treatments.

The report is done after all the details of the listening room are uploaded to Vicoustic. It is actually quite tedious as Vicoustic wants to know every nook and cranny including depth of windows, shades, etc.

So it is just a simulation, no real measurements?

 

[Lee]

So it is just a simulation, no real measurements?

Yes, a simulation based on their acoustic models.

 

[VinylPoke97]

If I may. First get the bones right. Get dedicated 20 amp lines for the outlets to be used for the gear in the room. Have that isolated from all electrical devices such as dimmers etc. Make sure that the HVAC is quiet and will not interfere. I suggest linear diffusers. Your HVAC guy will know what that is. Do you have the dimensions of the completed space including windows doors etc? You can take those and have computer modeling of the room done and have an idea of what will be required for treatment. THis is not expensive particularly if you are working with a dealer to do your project. This will give you a good start. Best of luck

Thx Elliot. Yes. One of the main panels has 6g running to the subpanel to the room in a closet attached. Dedicated 20a lines to the outlets. Rest of the room is on the “house line”. Will have 5 lines. 2 are ran with Romex 8g twisted in wall and are there for potential other needs down the line. The other three are going to be for the “now” components. The in wall for these is going to be Audience in wall Hiddent treasure. 1 will go to the Furutech duplex outlet and the other two go to a furutech single outlet. These single outlets will be for the mono amps. It is not a very long run for the inwall from the subpanel.

 

[VinylPoke97]

Until you have a room built read and listen as much as you can about the subject. It is a contradictory subject where everyone loves to be an expert - muself inclusive.surely - be prepared for nigh and day opinions. My advice is just after having the room built have it measured by an independent acoustician or meanwhile get a calibrated microphone, a decent soundcard and REW to get these measurements. They will not teach you how to treat the room but they will get you a good insight of its general acoustics and any particular issues that can need acoustic correction.

Yes I read on here all the time. It can be very intimidating but it is also fulfilling trying to continually learn. Thank god I have some good friends that have really curated rooms and a great local dealer. Thx for the advice..