RMAF 2013: Gear worth making the trip to Denver to hear... And not!

[Bruce B]

See, ask and you shall receive. Thanks Nick!

 

[microstrip]

The line stage uses a stepped secondary transformer volume control with 31 secondary positions, shielded sealed relays doing the switching. There is only one relay active at any one volume position. The secondary of the volume control transformer inputs into a line driver using the ecc99 tube in a hybrid follower config feeding a line output transformer. This results in a line stage with 9 or 10 db of gain ( 12bh7 or ecc99) , a sub 30 ohm output impedance and balanced / se outputs with total isolation. This unit also has home theater bypass built in so that an external trigger will passively bypass the balanced ht bypass input to the outputs ( the line stage does not have to be on in HT bypass mode)
The supplied remote provides for input, level, balance and phase selection on all 4 inputs. It can also shut off the display when blue led's are not conducive to the listening mood!

The unit is +/- 1 db 5 Hz to beyond 100khz and will drive loads from 5kohms and above in standard config. 600 ohm loads will need a bigger output coupling cap and can be specially ordered.

Nick,
Thanks for the details. The primary of the stepped secondary transformer is connected to the inputs without any buffer? BTW, what is the variation of level between steps?

 

[doshiaudio]

Nick,
Thanks for the details. The primary of the stepped secondary transformer is connected to the inputs without any buffer? BTW, what is the variation of level between steps?

Both legs of the primary are switched into the selected input. This results in total isolation of the source from the line stage with respect to ground paths. The added benefit is that you get common mode noise rejection on se inputs too.
The steps are setup so that the first 2 are 3 db , followed by 2 at 2 db the middle 24 position are 1 db steps and the final 3 are 3 db. This gives the listener the ability to adjust volume in the most used range of the unit
Hth

 

[Steve Williams]

All interesting Nick

Can you explain balance control on the remote

 

[microstrip]

Both legs of the primary are switched into the selected input. This results in total isolation of the source from the line stage with respect to ground paths. The added benefit is that you get common mode noise rejection on se inputs too.
The steps are setup so that the first 2 are 3 db , followed by 2 at 2 db the middle 24 position are 1 db steps and the final 3 are 3 db. This gives the listener the ability to adjust volume in the most used range of the unit
Hth

Just one more detail - what are the values of the input and output impedance? This is very important to owner of some Transparent cables that should be factory customized to the equipment.

 

[Steve Williams]

Just one more detail - what are the values of the input and output impedance? This is very important to owner of some Transparent cables that should be factory customized to the equipment.

With Larry being a large Transparent dealer I doubt there will be problems

 

[Bruce B]

With Larry being a large Transparent dealer I doubt there will be problems

We were using all Transparent cabling in the Paragon/Doshi/Wilson room at RMAF. I didn't hear/see any problems.

 

[microstrip]

With Larry being a large Transparent dealer I doubt there will be problems

There will be no problem at all - but if already own TA cables matched for your current equipment you risk that they need re-configuration at the factory.
But if one is lucking they will fit in the tuning fork of the cables and re-tuning is not needed. It is why I asked for the input and output impedance's.

 

[microstrip]

We were using all Transparent cabling in the Paragon/Doshi/Wilson room at RMAF. I didn't hear/see any problems.

Surely not -most probably some one picked the proper cables! Besides the MM2 Reference series has a wider tuning fork than the Opus.

 

[doshiaudio]

The way the balance control works is that the left or right balance buttons step the requested channel one step higher, the second push on the same button will lower the opposite channel one step .


In a later post someone requested input and output imp : input imp is 20k ohms output imp is less than 50 ohms across all audio frequencies

Hth

 

[flez007]

RMAF 2013 impressions part 1.....

The very last setup I heard was the Sadurni Acoustics/Kubala-Sosna. These are the products of our very own WBF member Saturntube. He is friends from Mexico City with Flez007 (Fernando), who I hosted a couple of weeks ago in Pleasanton and with whom I had a very pleasant audiophile interlude.

Unfortunately, I was in such a dazed and confused condition from show exhaustion, when I entered the room, I had completely lost my recollection of the WBF connections and did not even recognize Fernando at first, who was baby sitting. I apologize to Fernando for not recognizing him directly, but plead show shell shock as an excuse.

However, I am so glad I heard this demo. These big horns are 110 db efficient. Although they are imposing, after hearing them, I can easily imagine myself in a barcolounger between them. They are the ideal tool for hearing the glories of flea powered directly heated triode amplifiers. A 45 tube (at 1 and a half watts) will play with the general impact as a 150 watt tube amplifier with a 90 db efficient speaker. Anybody who knows the 45 tube knows that it is one of those "magic" tubes.

These horns sounded outstanding, with a smooth and huge soundstage that was seamless in the presentation room. In this instance, they were playing the "optional" 300b's and served them very well. I would have liked to have heard them with 45's, but they were not available.

The Sadurnis were one of the three horn presentations that I was really glad to have heard. They convinced me that if I ever strayed from my Planar preference, I would definitely go completely antiquarian with horns and flea powered amps.

I had just come from the Cessaro horn demo, which I found to be a major disappointment, into the Surdurni demo, which was most excellent.

I will post a more synoptic presentation of some of my other impressions in my next thread.

Carl - I am glad you stopped by for a listen, and even had the chance to play some of the CDs you brought to the show, I also think that these horns do not have the usual "horn sound" and deliver a high level of resolution, dynamics and drama - too bad that George could not have a larger room this time. I understand that he will get some professional reviews shortly as well as finalizing some options as for local distribution in the US.

 

[Steve Williams]

Do I recall seeing a tube on the horn

 

[cjfrbw]

 

[Steve Williams]

why is it there and what is driving it

 

[Mosin]

why is it there and what is driving it

Rather than having a permanent magnet, maybe it is a field coil driver? I'm no expert on horns, but I believe that is the case.

 

[Peter Breuninger]

That's a nondescript 300b tube amp driving the horns. I'll have the video up my mid week.

 

[caesar]

Maybe not but a speaker that has no bass will never have a good soundstage since spacial cues come from that. The speaker you describe is to be kind crap. Why would anyone want to buy such a flawed device?
I agree that Japanese desserts suck so we agree on something LOL.
I am not discussing the likes part. YOu can like box speakers, or electrostats, or ribbons or something thats a combo. They are all different in presentation but if they dont play Music, all the music then who really cares. I have heard great sound from all types. I like Wilson, Nola, Scaena, Martin Logan, Magnepan, Quads, Rockports and some others I can think of right now. They are ALL very different but they have one thing in common and that is when set up in a good room they make the world disappear and like the proverbial time machine transport me to another place and time. When this happens my friend then you have something and if it doesnt you have an expensive pile of crap.
Peace and dont eat dessert in that restaurant go get a frozen yogurt or some Hagen Daz....

Elliot,

I think we have very little disagreement here. (And I do love Haagen Daszs too. There are about a dozen different pints in my freezers.) Anyone walking into a small hotel room expecting to hear the best sound from a $30K Rockport and a $50K Absolare amp, without any experiential hours with either piece of gear, will only be impressed (or disgusted) with the fine quality leather on that amp. But, on the other hand, if the listener has heard a speaker that may have been voiced to exaggerate the upper mids/ lower highs and weak bass many times, it’s just another weave in the canvass of this experiential hobby….

But besides the points above, I think the Shakespeare quote above applies here also, but in a slightly different way. (“Oh! How bitter a thing it is to look into happiness through another man's eyes.”) You say you were in Harry Pearson’s listening circle. That’s kind of like travelling with Led Zeppelin in the 70’s!! Instead of private planes, the best parties with all kinds of goodies, best ladies, fun galore, etc., you have had the most amazing listening sessions, access to the best systems, best recordings, and conversations with the most experienced minds in the hobby. Your set of experiences is based on a completely different standard than what an average person attending the show is used to. A regular Joe- audiophile would only dream about such experiences. Not everyone gets a chance to hear master tapes, systems with bass approaching “real” that an average system just can’t do, etc. So a lot of guys, and even those with great systems, have had impoverished experiences compared to you, and those guys have been moved or impressed by some systems at the show. And in addition to systems, there are networking opportunities, listening to gear you only read about, hearing pieces of gear you are familiar with in different systems and rooms, meeting old friends, etc., hearing live music in the lobby, buying new source material, and anticipating how the gear we love will sound in our own systems – all of these are quite pleasurable. And if you like a system, most guys who run the rooms and gear designers are menshes and will let you listen to your own music and will enthusiastically explain their thinking about high end audio. But it seems like for you these pleasures have waned over multiple show experiences, which is too bad. Yet for most of us, the shows are quite a kick, even if most systems are just mediocre.

P.S. If you ever make it back to the Upper East Side near Lyric, check out Grom Gelato. If you like Haagen Dazs, you may really love this one.

 

[Bill Hart]

Yes, may be a picture will be better than a thousand words. These are Martin Colloms measurements:

Thanks for all of that, Micro, Rbbt, and Puro. Yes, there is a difference between super-deep bass and bass in the 40 hz region. I guess the 56 can go lower, i never tried measuring mine, I know that placement was extremely critical, getting them out into the room and up higher than the little factory feet permitted. (Canting them forward also produced some interesting results, though it has been a long time). Puro- I didn't know you had a pair of Crosby 63's around. I still have my pair of those as well and I agree, I liked the midrange purity of the 57 better than the 63, Crosby modded or not. To me the original Quads were (and I guess still are) pretty much the reference for un-muddied midrange, notwithstanding all of their other limitations. What a brilliant speaker.

 

[mauidan]

JA comments on the Paragon-Doshi-Wilson room:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/paragon150doshi150wilson

 

[Bill Hart]

Elliot,

I think we have very little disagreement here. (And I do love Haagen Daszs too. There are about a dozen different pints in my freezers.) Anyone walking into a small hotel room expecting to hear the best sound from a $30K Rockport and a $50K Absolare amp, without any experiential hours with either piece of gear, will only be impressed (or disgusted) with the fine quality leather on that amp. But, on the other hand, if the listener has heard a speaker that may have been voiced to exaggerate the upper mids/ lower highs and weak bass many times, it’s just another weave in the canvass of this experiential hobby….

But besides the points above, I think the Shakespeare quote above applies here also, but in a slightly different way. (“Oh! How bitter a thing it is to look into happiness through another man's eyes.”) You say you were in Harry Pearson’s listening circle. That’s kind of like travelling with Led Zeppelin in the 70’s!! Instead of private planes, the best parties with all kinds of goodies, best ladies, fun galore, etc., you have had the most amazing listening sessions, access to the best systems, best recordings, and conversations with the most experienced minds in the hobby. Your set of experiences is based on a completely different standard than what an average person attending the show is used to. A regular Joe- audiophile would only dream about such experiences. Not everyone gets a chance to hear master tapes, systems with bass approaching “real” that an average system just can’t do, etc. So a lot of guys, and even those with great systems, have had impoverished experiences compared to you, and those guys have been moved or impressed by some systems at the show. And in addition to systems, there are networking opportunities, listening to gear you only read about, hearing pieces of gear you are familiar with in different systems and rooms, meeting old friends, etc., hearing live music in the lobby, buying new source material, and anticipating how the gear we love will sound in our own systems – all of these are quite pleasurable. And if you like a system, most guys who run the rooms and gear designers are menshes and will let you listen to your own music and will enthusiastically explain their thinking about high end audio. But it seems like for you these pleasures have waned over multiple show experiences, which is too bad. Yet for most of us, the shows are quite a kick, even if most systems are just mediocre.

P.S. If you ever make it back to the Upper East Side near Lyric, check out Grom Gelato. If you like Haagen Dazs, you may really love this one.

Caesar: Please take the next available flight to Paris. Exit DeGaulle and have the cab take you directly to the il St. Louis. Proceed to the main outlet of Berthilion. Order the prune/armagnac ice cream. Then report.