Review: The Thiel TM3 Monitor: $3498

Andre Marc

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Mar 14, 2012
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Review: The Thiel TM3 Monitor: $3498

http://www.avrev.com/home-theater-l...oudspeakers/thiel-tm3-loudspeaker-review.html

 

TBone

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Nov 15, 2012
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Well written review. Nice looking real-world speaker at a sensible cost, go figure ;)

Noticed the 12/24 db slopes ... correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Thiel use ONLY 1st order slopes in all their xovers at one time?
 

Andre Marc

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Well written review. Nice looking real-world speaker at a sensible cost, go figure ;)

Noticed the 12/24 db slopes ... correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Thiel use ONLY 1st order slopes in all their xovers at one time?

Thank you sir.

Yes, you are correct on both counts. These new speakers are essentially a clean slate.
 

DaveyF

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Jul 31, 2010
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Very nice review, Andre. Couple of questions...are the cabinets made from real wood or are we looking at a plastic veneer over MDF? Also, are these speakers made in the USA or are they made off-shore?
I wonder how they would compare to the Evolution Acoustics MM Micro One's...which I believe are similarly priced now.
 

Andre Marc

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Very nice review, Andre. Couple of questions...are the cabinets made from real wood or are we looking at a plastic veneer over MDF? Also, are these speakers made in the USA or are they made off-shore?
I wonder how they would compare to the Evolution Acoustics MM Micro One's...which I believe are similarly priced now.
Thank you DaveyF!

From what I was told the enclosure is a combination of anti resonance material with real wood veneers.

The products are made in Thiel's new HQ, Memphis, TN.
 

Phelonious Ponk

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Annie Halsam’s sparking, wonder of a voice is still intact and seemed to be hanging in space between the speakers, almost like she was standing between them. I guess that is what the call pinpoint imaging.

I'd actually call that a rock-solid phantom center. If you've got equally solid instrument and voice images spread across the horizontal field, that's what I'd call pinpoint imaging. But I pick nits. Beautiful speaker; good review. Thanks for sharing.

Tim
 

Andre Marc

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I'd actually call that a rock-solid phantom center. If you've got equally solid instrument and voice images spread across the horizontal field, that's what I'd call pinpoint imaging. But I pick nits. Beautiful speaker; good review. Thanks for sharing.

Tim
Thank you Tim:

Actually I agree with you. What is interesting is with a lot of vocal material, the lead vocal is almost always panned dead center, but many drum elements (hi hat, cymbals, kick, etc) guitars, keyboards and strings tend to be panned across the spectrum right and left.

They are a beautiful speaker. Packed them up this morning. The workmanship is first rate.
 

Al M.

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After all the positive feedback that Andre has received on his review I will be a dissenting voice.

Andre, your review is written in generalities, and without any meaningful comparisons. Refinement and sophistication? My speakers are refined and sophisticated too, certainly in comparison with many other systems I have heard. Yet compared with Magico M Project speakers, the best speakers I have heard? Now those sound much more refined and sophisticated. Without any comparison, what does it all mean? Refinement and sophistication, compared with other speakers in much higher price classes?

Accurate tonal balance? Accurate in relation to what? Live music? That's a tall order to claim, and live music comes in all kinds of tonal balances, depending on hall acoustics. And if accurate, a bit more detail please. On the money with string sections as you say? In what way? Does the 'pleasing overall balance' as you describe it allow for enough presence of the lower treble so that sheen and texture on orchestral violins come through? Or is the balance more subdued in this frequency range in order to be 'pleasing' on other instruments, such as brass? Or are you talking, when you mention 'string sections', about a group of solo strings such as an accompanying string quartet which Costello sometimes uses as well? Then the question of how much micro-detail in the sound vibrations comes through becomes relevant (a problem area in any system's performance). You mention piano. Can the speakers convincingly reproduce from that instrument both the sparkle in the treble and the power in the low midrange? Many systems/speakers have trouble getting both in balance. In particular, large speakers often, though not always, fatten up the low midrange (can sound nice on some music, but is horrible on piano), while some minimonitors sound anemic in that range (yet the best ones excel in this area). Accurate in relation to other speakers? How does it all compare?

A three-dimensional soundstage with solid and pinpoint imaging? Well, all decent minimonitors do that, that's nothing special for the speaker class of minimonitors. The problem is that while this may be an outstanding feature compared to some larger speakers (even though the best of those excel in soundstaging as well), people interested in such speakers will not read a review about minimonitors. Owners of minimonitors like me, on the other hand, want to know more. Is the pinpoint imaging natural or excessive? How three-dimensional is it? Is there a lot of depth with the best amps and sources? Is the portrayal of depth natural? Is it spatially an overall more forward or receded balance? Again, the comments in the review are held in such generalities that they become meaningless to interested readers.

Similar holds for the comment that 'they consistently sounded bigger than their appearance would suggest'. Really? How is that special? Any decent minimonitor sounds bigger than its appearance would suggest. That's old hat to owners of minimonitors. Again, generalities that become meaningless. More to the point would be information how size of soundstage compares to other minimonitors on the market, or to some large speakers. Ease of set-up? Well, that's old hat for any decent minimonitor too.

Sure, bass from a minimonitor cannot reproduce the lowest notes as you mention. But how low does it go with these speakers? Magico Q1 low? Or more in line with average minimonitors? Does the bass, while not reproducing the lowest notes, have sufficient subjective weight? The comment that bass and midrange were seamless does not address this issue. Did you try to pair the speakers with a good sub to see if the sound integrates well in order to cover a full frequency range? Pairing a minimonitor with a sub in a suitable companion price range should be standard fare in any modern minimonitor review. How would that combo compare to a larger speaker in your system? There is no excuse not to try it.

Dynamics? No word on neither micro- nor macrodynamics. Big miss. I am a sucker for dynamics. If I get no info on that, I am not interested.

The one really useful information for me in the review might have been that even a 25 W pc amp can drive the speakers effortlessly without strain. Yet again there are more questions than answers. The specified low sensitivity of 87 dB (anechoic), the impedance dip to 3.6 Ohm and the multi-order crossover may be problematic for pairing with a low-powered amp and raise yellow flags. You talk about 'high volumes', but no strain up to what SPLs? 85 dB peak levels? Big deal. 95 dB peak levels and above? Now that would be more interesting. In any case, how loud can the speakers play in absolute terms, with high-powered amps? I have heard a two-way floorstander in the $ 12K range from a reputable, currently 'hot' speaker company that sounded good until 90 dB SPL and then completely fell apart, drowning in awful, ear-grinding congestion (the amp had plenty power and I was sitting quite close so the speakers shouldn't have had to work that hard). So those questions are important to answer.

Rhythm and timing? That's important too. A reference track of mine on this is Elvis Presley's 'Devil in Disguise' since it rocks and swings at the same time, in a sophisticated, infectious manner that only comes through on systems that are top performers in that regard (and a car radio need not apply either, for sure). The timing on the just mentioned reputable floorstander completely collapsed on that track (it sounded like a really lousy band playing), and that while not even driving the speakers to high SPL, at 85 dB or less (the amp, a Spectral DMA-260, and the cables were not at fault, since they performed fabulously on that track later upon trial in my system at home; the DAC was the same). So great rhythm and timing are not guaranteed. While I mostly listen to classical and classical avantgarde, I am not interested in a speaker that is not a Rock&Roll badass (next to Elvis show me how it sounds on some Green Day or AC/DC, for example), and your review mentions nothing on that aspect.

All in all, the review, without going into any detail, deals in nice and all positive generalities that say little to nothing to me, and it omits crucial features such as dynamics and rhythm. If its purpose was to raise interest in the speakers, it has failed. And I hardly have learned anything from it.

Andre, you're a nice guy, and we had some good exchanges here in the past. Yet people in the audiophile community have long complained about overly positive reviews without any meaningful comparisons -- I only just gave that criticism a more concrete voice. You have a chance to respond to that criticism by writing more satisfying and informative reviews in the future. I understand that the space of what to say in your review may be limited, and that may put some constraints on your writing. Perhaps that needs to change too, otherwise no meaningful reviews can be written in that magazine.

Other reviewers, please take notice as well if you read this. We audiophiles are fed up with glowing reviews without proper frames of comparison that would give them meaning. Afraid of manufacturers? Not our, the readers', problem. And why would manufacturers care anyway about indiscriminately positive reviews that reveal too little about a component's individual character in comparison with others and thus are ultimately uninteresting? The whole culture needs to change, in the interest of both consumers and manufacturers alike.

What do I consider really good reviews? For starters, take those of Roy Gregory, currently at The Audio Beat. Sure, not every review of his is of the same stellar quality, but he does not shy away from mentioning, next to the good things, things that are less positive or simply different compared to other products. For example, in his quite glowing review of the Avantgarde Trio horn speakers (with sub),

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/equipment/avantgarde_trio.htm

he points out the shortcomings as well (heading "The flip side"). Not only do I get the idea how those speakers might actually sound, I also get a good idea what to listen for were I ever to get to audition them (slim chance). Brilliant review.

And when Roy Gregory is all rave, he usually underscores the 'why' of his assessment with concrete comparisons. And his reviews are always detailed.
 

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