Refund problem

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Young Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Apr 30, 2012
123
81
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I am very sorry to hear about the negative experiences some have had in their dealings with Dietrich/Daniel/Mr Brakemeier/dertonarm. I found this man to be very knowledgeable and helpful but some of my dealings with him, although financially minor compared to the issues raised here, have not been entirely smooth with unnecessary delays and other issues. Don't ever ask for your money back should your expectations fail to be met, it will prove to be a futile exercise and it is always your fault or a one off instance, an anomaly if you will.

Around 2 years ago some of my associates entered into a business agreement with another German, Mr Ingmar Drews, who promised to manufacture and supply three of his Odyssey Mk V record cleaning machines (based on the famous Keith Monks design). This man, who was as nice as pie and couldn't be more helpful via phone or email, requested full payment in advance. When he had almost $10k of my associate's money safely in his bank account the delays started, followed by the excuses, followed by more delays, more excuses and finally complete silence. Dozens of phone calls and emails have gone unanswered. To make matters worse it was learned that this man continued to manufacture and supply record cleaning machines into his local market, presumably using the funds my associates had paid for undelivered goods. The legal battle continues to this day and my latest information is that the man involved faces criminal action.

So what does all of this have to do with the man being discussed in this thread? Well he was told first hand about my associate's experiences in being scammed by Mr Ingmar Drews and was not only empathetic, but actually offered to assist in getting to the bottom of the whole saga. I find it all rather ironic given the issues which have been raised here in this thread. My trust in dealing with audio enthusiasts and manufacturers has been damaged as a result of these experiences. It only takes one or two to spoil it for so many.
 

Reinhard

Well-Known Member
Mar 24, 2012
98
30
925
germany
Daniel, i am told, knows that German laws say that if it is a custom order, there is a big loophole and he thinks he is invincible. But not in the USA. He did not count on this. I am of course going to invoke usa law which i do not want to publicize on this forum yet.
Hope this helps/

There is no special law in germany on custom orders. You have to get what you pay for.

In audio there maybe a discussion about sound and/or built quality. I am in this business as well.
If there are differences we try to fine tune to have a happy customer, and more important, a good reputation.

REINHARD
 

Soundproof

New Member
Jan 13, 2012
429
1
0
Oslo, Norway
If crooks looked and behaved like crooks, we wouldn't get the politicians we have. Buyer beware, always. There are a lot of sharks circling around enthusiasts, in many hobbies.
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
11,238
81
1,725
New York City
If crooks looked and behaved like crooks, we wouldn't get the politicians we have. Buyer beware, always. There are a lot of sharks circling around enthusiasts, in many hobbies.


There are a few scam artists out there in every area (look at Bernie baby). For instance, take a manufacturer who is going out of business, yet sign a contract for advertising with a magazine. They figure that if the ad generates any revenue, it might help them stay afloat; if not, try and collect. Some magazines at one time to write off a considerable amount of bad advertising.
 

ALF

Well-Known Member
Mar 15, 2012
531
244
955
Southwest
Hello,

Maybe someone could help me with this question?

It appears that Dietrich/Dertonarm mave had a previous audio company, Bayer, Brakemeier & Partners. I believe that this is the original company that built the Apolyt Turntable. Is this Company out of business? When I did my research in Munich, there appeared to be some issue with this Bayer, Brakemeier & Partners. Does anyone hear have any experience or knowledge with this Company.

Are the issues around this Company the reason for the VAT related business issue for Dietrich/Dertonarm?

Thanks in advance for any assistance!

Kind Regards,
ALF
 

silviajulieta

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2010
364
15
323
México city. rauliruegas@hotmail.com
Dear friends: All what's happening to you unfortunated D's in good faith customers is not a big surprise to me what was a surprise is that all that was not happened before and that happened with Agoner's after some " related " warnings from my self. Of course I'm sorry to all of you.

Knowing him certainly I never deal with and not only because of his dishonest " way of audio life " but because at audiophile level Dertonarm promotes through what he has on sale: FR tonearms, MS TT, SUTs, Omnigon Apolyt , etc, etc, hig distortions's items that are not for me.

Anyway, here are information that through the time I gathered on the internet that can be useful for some of you. It is exactly as I copy that:


++++++++ " DerTonarm
real name Dietrich Brakemeier,
Address: Seefelderhofberg 11 b, 86919 Utting, Germany, phone 049 8806959525
He had a High-End company in the 90ies, which folded. He made a lot of turnover by importing Living Stereo LPs to Germany, after he promoted and wrote articles about them in DasOhr and AbsoluteSounds in those years.
He is still doing business, but hidden behind his wife's name "Axinia Schaefer", so he is safe from old customers. His ebay name is: "acoustical-systems". He is more of a salesman than a technician, this explains his lack of understanding physics.
DerTonarm is making a living right now from importing old Fidelity Research and Micro-Seiki items from Japan and Hongkong to Germany.
He sold ultra-high-end to rich guys around '90, which Munich based engineers worked out for him. "Apolyt" (was a 40000 DEM turntable in 1990.
The engineer who helped Dietrich was Peter Hartmann from Munich.
Most of the other things he sold are based on concepts of the now defunct French "L'Audophile" magazine, like the (Anzai) SRPP phono preamp, or the "LeMonstre" 8watts class A transistor power amp.
Currently Dietrich sells Jensen 346 MC (200 USD each, from Jensen USA: www.jensentransformers.com) capsules for > 2000 EUR in a shiny box called "syntax" that you can see on Agon ads.
Dietrich has DerTonarm moniker on audiogon
and intoTheNexus moniker on analog-forum.de
Sometimes he tries to hide his profesional status like he does on analog-forum.de


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""



Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
 

Blam!

Well-Known Member
Apr 8, 2012
16
0
908
Germany
Dietrich has ... intoTheNexus moniker on analog-forum.de
Sometimes he tries to hide his profesional status like he does on analog-forum.de.

Intothenexus is not registered on analog-forum.de anymore since 2010.
 

Reinhard

Well-Known Member
Mar 24, 2012
98
30
925
germany
Hello,

Maybe someone could help me with this question?

It appears that Dietrich/Dertonarm mave had a previous audio company, Bayer, Brakemeier & Partners. I believe that this is the original company that built the Apolyt Turntable. Is this Company out of business? When I did my research in Munich, there appeared to be some issue with this Bayer, Brakemeier & Partners. Does anyone hear have any experience or knowledge with this Company.

Are the issues around this Company the reason for the VAT related business issue for Dietrich/Dertonarm?

Thanks in advance for any assistance!

Kind Regards,
ALF

http://knipschild.net/brakemeier.htm

Here you find some Info.

Reinhard
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
11,238
81
1,725
New York City
looks like someone is on a crusade and all ghosts from the past will be reanimated - not a nice picture for all combatants.

Care then to illuminate us?
 

airbearing

Well-Known Member
May 2, 2012
233
103
950
Munich - Germany
I am not sure about the motives behind the crusade, I also do not know the facts of the individual deals. I guess it is a matter of grown up people dealing with business issues. As far as I know the attacked person i do know he does not act without reason and he is not following the basic fraud principle most accusers try to picture here. I know the people involved had a very intense relation over quite a time. So what happend really?


I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him;
The evil that men do lives after them,
The good is oft interred with their bones,
So let it be with Caesar … The noble Brutus
Hath told you Caesar was ambitious:
If it were so, it was a grievous fault,
And grievously hath Caesar answered it …
Here, under leave of Brutus and the rest,
(For Brutus is an honourable man;
So are they all; all honourable men)
Come I to speak in Caesar’s funeral …
He was my friend, faithful and just to me:
But Brutus says he was ambitious;
And Brutus is an honourable man….
He hath brought many captives home to Rome,
Whose ransoms did the general coffers fill:
Did this in Caesar seem ambitious?
When that the poor have cried, Caesar hath wept:
Ambition should be made of sterner stuff:
Yet Brutus says he was ambitious;
And Brutus is an honourable man.
You all did see that on the Lupercal
I thrice presented him a kingly crown,
Which he did thrice refuse: was this ambition?
Yet Brutus says he was ambitious;
And, sure, he is an honourable man.
I speak not to disprove what Brutus spoke,
But here I am to speak what I do know.
You all did love him once, not without cause:
What cause withholds you then to mourn for him?
O judgement! thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason…. Bear with me;
My heart is in the coffin there with Caesar,
And I must pause till it come back to me.
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
11,238
81
1,725
New York City
I am not sure about the motives behind the crusade, I also do not know the facts of the individual deals. I guess it is a matter of grown up people dealing with business issues. As far as I know the attacked person i do know he does not act without reason and he is not following the basic fraud principle most accusers try to picture here. I know the people involved had a very intense relation over quite a time. So what happend really?


I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him;
The evil that men do lives after them,
The good is oft interred with their bones,
So let it be with Caesar … The noble Brutus
Hath told you Caesar was ambitious:
If it were so, it was a grievous fault,
And grievously hath Caesar answered it …
Here, under leave of Brutus and the rest,
(For Brutus is an honourable man;
So are they all; all honourable men)
Come I to speak in Caesar’s funeral …
He was my friend, faithful and just to me:
But Brutus says he was ambitious;
And Brutus is an honourable man….
He hath brought many captives home to Rome,
Whose ransoms did the general coffers fill:
Did this in Caesar seem ambitious?
When that the poor have cried, Caesar hath wept:
Ambition should be made of sterner stuff:
Yet Brutus says he was ambitious;
And Brutus is an honourable man.
You all did see that on the Lupercal
I thrice presented him a kingly crown,
Which he did thrice refuse: was this ambition?
Yet Brutus says he was ambitious;
And, sure, he is an honourable man.
I speak not to disprove what Brutus spoke,
But here I am to speak what I do know.
You all did love him once, not without cause:
What cause withholds you then to mourn for him?
O judgement! thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason…. Bear with me;
My heart is in the coffin there with Caesar,
And I must pause till it come back to me.

I can understand one person griping and questioning their motives. But it seems that several individuals here have some valid complaints.
 

DEV

New Member
Oct 19, 2011
547
6
0
looks like someone is on a crusade and all ghosts from the past will be reanimated - not a nice picture for all combatants.

You just joined and this is your first posting and basically you appear to be on the side of the accused, why? who really are you and where are you located?

These are some serious allegations made by the OP and ALF whom have paid money and not received the goods nor a refund, don't you take this situation serious? How would you feel if the shoe was on the other foot and you had been ripped off?
Can you provide any constructive information to assist these individules to either receive their product or money back?
 

ALF

Well-Known Member
Mar 15, 2012
531
244
955
Southwest
I am not sure about the motives behind the crusade, I also do not know the facts of the individual deals. I guess it is a matter of grown up people dealing with business issues. As far as I know the attacked person i do know he does not act without reason and he is not following the basic fraud principle most accusers try to picture here. I know the people involved had a very intense relation over quite a time. So what happend really?


I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him;
The evil that men do lives after them,
The good is oft interred with their bones,
So let it be with Caesar … The noble Brutus
Hath told you Caesar was ambitious:
If it were so, it was a grievous fault,
And grievously hath Caesar answered it …
Here, under leave of Brutus and the rest,
(For Brutus is an honourable man;
So are they all; all honourable men)
Come I to speak in Caesar’s funeral …
He was my friend, faithful and just to me:
But Brutus says he was ambitious;
And Brutus is an honourable man
He hath brought many captives home to Rome,
Whose ransoms did the general coffers fill:
Did this in Caesar seem ambitious?
When that the poor have cried, Caesar hath wept:
Ambition should be made of sterner stuff:
Yet Brutus says he was ambitious;
And Brutus is an honourable man.
You all did see that on the Lupercal
I thrice presented him a kingly crown,
Which he did thrice refuse: was this ambition?
Yet Brutus says he was ambitious;
And, sure, he is an honourable man.
I speak not to disprove what Brutus spoke,
But here I am to speak what I do know.
You all did love him once, not without cause:
What cause withholds you then to mourn for him?
O judgement! thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason…. Bear with me;
My heart is in the coffin there with Caesar,
And I must pause till it come back to me.



Hello Dietrich, Daniel, D., DDB, Kasugi, and now Airbearing,

Welcome back to the forum, please tell us more...

Kind Regards,
Alan
 

DEV

New Member
Oct 19, 2011
547
6
0
I am not sure about the motives behind the crusade, I also do not know the facts of the individual deals. I guess it is a matter of grown up people dealing with business issues. As far as I know the attacked person i do know he does not act without reason and he is not following the basic fraud principle most accusers try to picture here. I know the people involved had a very intense relation over quite a time. So what happend really?


I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him;
The evil that men do lives after them,
The good is oft interred with their bones,
So let it be with Caesar … The noble Brutus
Hath told you Caesar was ambitious:
If it were so, it was a grievous fault,
And grievously hath Caesar answered it …
Here, under leave of Brutus and the rest,
(For Brutus is an honourable man;
So are they all; all honourable men)
Come I to speak in Caesar’s funeral …
He was my friend, faithful and just to me:
But Brutus says he was ambitious;
And Brutus is an honourable man….
He hath brought many captives home to Rome,
Whose ransoms did the general coffers fill:
Did this in Caesar seem ambitious?
When that the poor have cried, Caesar hath wept:
Ambition should be made of sterner stuff:
Yet Brutus says he was ambitious;
And Brutus is an honourable man.
You all did see that on the Lupercal
I thrice presented him a kingly crown,
Which he did thrice refuse: was this ambition?
Yet Brutus says he was ambitious;
And, sure, he is an honourable man.
I speak not to disprove what Brutus spoke,
But here I am to speak what I do know.
You all did love him once, not without cause:
What cause withholds you then to mourn for him?
O judgement! thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason…. Bear with me;
My heart is in the coffin there with Caesar,
And I must pause till it come back to me.

What type of nosence responce is this? Is this actually the accused responding or someone posting for him because this is how it comes across, only two replies just being a new member.

Adding to that you said;

"I know the people involved had a very intense relation over quite a time. So what happend really?"

Why so secretive? Kindly enlighten us, I'm sure all involved are waiting.
 

AHreply

New Member
May 2, 2012
2
0
0
Before "publishing" accusations proof should be provided and judged.
In normal course this implies going to court.
That the administartion of this forum allows these accusations to be made makes one think that she/he is invloved in some way.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Before "publishing" accusations proof should be provided and judged.
In normal course this implies going to court.
That the administartion of this forum allows these accusations to be made makes one think that she/he is invloved in some way.


Oh please. Nice first post

welcome to WBF AHreply
 

DEV

New Member
Oct 19, 2011
547
6
0
Before "publishing" accusations proof should be provided and judged.
In normal course this implies going to court.
That the administartion of this forum allows these accusations to be made makes one think that she/he is invloved in some way.

What a joke! Your first posting.

Reading this appears that you may also be airbearing or related and the accused in this thread. Who are you and where do you live?
 

airbearing

Well-Known Member
May 2, 2012
233
103
950
Munich - Germany
Hey Dev, I do understand we are dealing with serious issues. First of all I am not the accused, I am not related, I am a former customer always treated well. But I am also not in your courtroom!
 

ack

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
May 6, 2010
6,774
1,198
580
Boston, MA
I'll just make another request to start exposing the IP address of posters...
 
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