Plasma displays inch closer to death

[NorthStar]

...

If the ST60/VT60/ZT60s have finally passed the Kuros in image quality maybe there is an upgrade in my future.

They do; surpass them in every and all aspects, even in Black level. ...Check here

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* http://www.digitaltrends.com/tv-reviews/pasanonic-viera-tc-p55vt60-review/

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[FrantzM]

Hi

Sad thing.

As far as I know plasma is superior in all aspects expect brightness I would like to know in what parameters objective or subjective . LCD/LED, etc can be shown to be superior to Plasma. . The same cannot be said about Vinyl vs Digital.

 

[Groucho]

I would like to know in what parameters objective or subjective . LCD/LED, etc can be shown to be superior to Plasma.

Screen burn? Physical dimensions? Weight? Power consumption? (Maybe not what you had in mind, but important to some people)

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Burn-in? Power consumption? (Maybe not what you had in mind, but important to some people)

I don't think that Burn-in is a much of an issue any longer, but power consumption still is.

 

[DaveyF]

John, my Pioneer plasma sucks juice from the wall as if it's on a mission, LOL. Burn-in is also a problem....replacement parts are virtually non-existant and it's is NOT that thin. OTOH, picture quality wise ( which is what I'm primarily concerned about) is still top-notch. So much so, that I have no real desire to replace the old girl. Even the new OLED's have certain issues ( besides the price)....OLED's are VERY questionable as to reliability.OTOH, 4K's are quite good and IF they come down in price to more normal offerings...( which I'm sure by this time next year or the year after, they will) they would be a contender.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

John, my Pioneer plasma sucks juice from the wall as if it's on a mission, LOL. Burn-in is also a problem....replacement parts are virtually non-existant and it's is NOT that thin. OTOH, picture quality wise ( which is what I'm primarily concerned about) is still top-notch. So much so, that I have no real desire to replace the old girl. Even the new OLED's have certain issues ( besides the price)....OLED's are VERY questionable as to reliability.OTOH, 4K's are quite good and IF they come down in price to more normal offerings...( which I'm sure by this time next year or the year after, they will) they would be a contender.

I agree on the "juice", which is what I said, but the newer plasmas (not your Kuro) don't suffer from burn-in nearly as much as they did. It is still an issue, but only for those that leave the set on with constant static images. I've had 2 Panny's and not had any issues.

 

[FrantzM]

Screen burn? Not much of an issue
Weight? Nothing to do with performance
Physical dimensions and Power consumption ? See above

 

[Groucho]

Screen burn? Not much of an issue
Weight? Nothing to do with performance
Physical dimensions and Power consumption ? See above

You didn't say "performance", you said "parameters"

 

[amirm]

A major cause of failure for Plasma was that because it was dimmer than LCDs, in many bright showrooms it would look dull and lose out to LCDs. This was a big problem in Japan because the largest retailer there had these awful fluorescent lights everywhere. In US vendors have wised up and many use a darker setting but not always.

The other factor was that LCDs got to 1080p faster and better than Plasma. It was challenging to reduce the cell size in Plasma and maintain brightness. It was nearly impossible in smaller sizes.

The one thing that still bothers me about Plasma is brightness pumping. The unit can only produce so much brightness. So if the screen all of a sudden becomes mostly white, it will lower the brightness. When the content changes and has less bright areas, it will pump back up. CRTs used to do the same but of course LCDs do not.

 

[FrantzM]

You didn't say "performance", you said "parameters"

Come on Groucho ... lol

Plasma as far as I know are superior to the others in most if not all performance parameters or criteria.

 

[Groucho]

The one thing that still bothers me about Plasma is brightness pumping. The unit can only produce so much brightness. So if the screen all of a sudden becomes mostly white, it will lower the brightness. When the content changes and has less bright areas, it will pump back up. CRTs used to do the same but of course LCDs do not.

However, LCDs with less-than-perfect black levels often have "Dynamic Contrast" turned on by default which drove me nuts on my LCD when I bought it. Luckily it had various user-selectable modes including one called "Game Mode" with Dynamic Contrast turned off, leaving "Ambient Compensation" on (or words to that effect). So it doesn't 'pump' with picture content, but it does automatically turn the backlight up to maximum during the day, and dimmer in the evenings. Even though its black isn't perfect, it's never actually bothered me, while the Dynamic Contrast made me almost feel ill.

Until a few years ago, I was determined to stick with CRT or get a plasma, but LCDs have come so far that there really isn't much wrong with them these days. I saw a CRT the other day - which I used to think was so good - but the flicker! The wobbly geometry. The poor resolution. In every respect, the new LCD beats it hands down.

 

[rrr]

There is a great line in the movie Wall Street: "You know, at one time there must've been dozens of companies making buggy whips. And I'll bet the last company around was the one that made the best goddamn buggy whip you ever saw. Now how would you have liked to have been a stockholder in that company?" [/url]



...

Great Quote but not from the movie Wall Street.

The movie was "Other Peoples Money" and the quote was spoken by "Larry the Liquidator".

A great movie that has a lot to do with the realities of business.

 

[NorthStar]

What LCD LED HDTVs lack are:

* Uniformity: same level of black all around the screen (to have that you need backlit local dimming everywhere and that is EXPENSIVE).
* Motion stability: for watching sports and action flicks plasmas (600hz) are better.
* 90%+ of them; wide viewing angle (no problem with plasmas).

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LCD LEDs are brighter, true, but the latest Panasonic and Samsung plasmas are good enough for daytime watching.
LCD LEDs are better for 3D pop up (brightness), but many of them use passive 3D glasses with half the resolution, and annoying horizontal bars.

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Any plasma HDTV is prompt to screen's burn-in, but effective methods are available, and they work.

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Overall plasmas are the real videophile's TVs of choice; people who are more serious with their moving pictures.

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* http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-tc-p55vt60/4505-6482_7-35567332.html

 

[DSkip]

I haven't seen anyone mention this yet, and this is an ignorant guess, but is it possible the "end" of Plasma is due to the oncoming 4K resolution and the R&D investment to obtain it on a plasma? Also, the sheer size of LED/LCD monitors is now absurd, reaching 80" and beyond, while I haven't seen any Plasma monitors above 65". The LED/LCD market is getting to a point where it might be more economical/efficient to use a massive LED/LCD in place of projectors even.

I don't think anything is wrong with the technology as it stands, but I see issues where it won't be able to keep up with current trends in the overall TV market.

 

[NorthStar]

The main reason is "Selling". ...What sells the most. ...And Panasonic is losing ground in that department with their plasma HDTVs.

* It's similar to high-end audio.

 

[NorthStar]

And like I said before, nobody is working on a 4K plasma HDTV. ...They are all LCD LED and OLED Ultra HD flat panels. ...And front projectors of course.

 

[DSkip]

Considering the Plasma TV can't be found in the two areas I listed above, do you think this has a big part of why they are losing ground in sales? Its hard to sell a product when you don't offer one in that category. I have many friends who have opted for size over PQ, thus eliminating plasma almost completely from the get-go. Many more are going to focus on resolution as the second big part of the equation, thereby eliminating plasma again.

 

[NorthStar]

No, it simply doesn't have a market, so video dealers don't want them, that's all. And the less people want them (customers and dealers) the more they are disappearing and the more manufacturers (Panasonic, Samsung, LG) are losing money.

And it's true that plasmas are mainly restricted to the 65" size (bigger are much more expensive to make and consequently to sell).

Resolution; you probably meant Ultra HD (4K) LCD LEDs with 4096 x 2160 pixels resolution versus HD (2K) plasma's 1920 x 1080 pixels (four times less resolution). * Ultra HD is also seen as 3840 x 2160 pixels.

- Ultra HD = 8.8 megapixel
- HD = 2.1 megapixel

 

[DaveyF]

Bob, do you not think that videophiles are going to go into 4K and OLED's...and away from plasma? BTW, the Onkyo 818 arrived today, I have not had time to set it up, BUT it is one VERY impressive piece of kit. Many thanks for the advice.

 

[NorthStar]

Bob, do you not think that videophiles are going to go into 4K and OLED's...and away from plasma? BTW, the Onkyo 818 arrived today, I have not had time to set it up, BUT it is one VERY impressive piece of kit. Many thanks for the advice.

Videophiles are going with the very best in the now; high-end front projectors (Sony 4K, Wolf, Digital Projection, Runco, JVC), flat panel plasmas (Panasonic, Samsung).
...And high-end 2K & 4K LCD LED flat panels (Sony, Sharp Elite, Samsung, LG). * OLED is not totally there yet but it is improving (it is available but not perfected; some glitches).

* You are going to need to read the 818's manual; it is quite a complex receiver Davey.
The ergonomics are good, but there are so many features. ...And that is only one of the reasons why in the Receivers thread I started some tutorial videos; including one on Audyssey microphone positioning setup. But you're in good hand here with me, for most of the stuff (audio & video streaming is not my forte).

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Click => Panasonic to End Plasma Panel Production By April 2014