Just think how bad it would be here if George didn't take charge and the French show up at the right time.
Not happy with audiophoolery marketing and products? Do something about it!
- Thread starter dollars2donuts
- Start date
Audio and any other hobbies are supposed to be fueled by passion.
If the OP is passionate about calling out brands that have far fetched, unsupportable claims,
I say more power to him!
If the OP is passionate about calling out brands that have far fetched, unsupportable claims,
I say more power to him!
Truthfulness? Substantiation? Testing the limits of puffery, allegation and testimonial? My God, man, are you trying to ruin the entire hi end audio industry?
Thankfully, I live in the USA where free speech reigns supreme! Let the Puffmeisters puff away!
Thankfully, I live in the USA where free speech reigns supreme! Let the Puffmeisters puff away!
Seems like the Federal Trade Commission could get involved if they wanted to do so. I know they regulate amplifier specifications.
Of course there's fraud. This is high-end audio. My problem with these government agencies is that they inevitably end up captured by the largest market players or at least get manipulated by them to do harm to their competitors. Its been happening ever since the times of John D. Rockefeller; "Competition is a sin."
Look at the Bernie Madoff fiasco. The guy never made a trade in 30 years. One of his competitors, Harry Markopolos, figured it out in 1999, years before the scheme collapsed, and formerly complained to the SEC. They blew him off and did nothing about it. Why? Maybe because Bernie founded the Nasdaq? Maybe they are morons? Who knows?
Ask any of the Madoff victims. They will tell you that they didn't worry about Madoff because they had never seen a complaint from the SEC.
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Michael.
Of course there's fraud. This is high-end audio. My problem with these government agencies is that they inevitably end up captured by the largest market players or at least get manipulated by them to do harm to their competitors. Its been happening ever since the times of John D. Rockefeller; "Competition is a sin."
Look at the Bernie Madoff fiasco. The guy never made a trade in 30 years. One of his competitors, Harry Markopolos, figured it out in 1999, years before the scheme collapsed, and formerly complained to the SEC. They blew him off and did nothing about it. Why? Maybe because Bernie founded the Nasdaq? Maybe they are morons? Who knows?
Ask any of the Madoff victims. They will tell you that they didn't worry about Madoff because they had never seen a complaint from the SEC.
Michael.
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I bet you would have a very different opinion if you had invested half your life savings with Bernie Madoff.
I applaud the UK for taking on patently false product claims. That some people don't realize they've been duped seems irrelevant. Most people do care if they're being duped, even if they don't realize it at the time of purchase.
--Ethan
LOL, good point! But it is an example of why we need consumer protection regulation.
--Ethan
Yeah, damn that Ethan and damn that JJ. How dare they inject reason and science into this discussion?
--Ethan
Ethan,
It's worse than that. The SEC intentionally buried it for 10 years. Think about all of those poor victims that suffered because they believed the SEC.
It's worse than that. The SEC intentionally buried it for 10 years. Think about all of those poor victims that suffered because they believed the SEC.
FWIW, the ASA is not a government regulatory body - it's an industry self-regulating body with public funding via taxes. And it's not just a UK thing: the complaintant can be from anywhere, complaining about any firm in the UK or in a country that has a similar group with relations with ASA. One can complain to the ASA and they'll handle some coordination with other countries, or you can complain directly to the similar group in another country:
http://asa.org.uk/About-ASA/Working-with-others/Cross-border-complaints.aspx
http://www.easa-alliance.org/Complaints-compliance/How-to-complain/page.aspx/103
The authority to enforce actions has some nuances to it: http://www.easa-alliance.org/Complaints-compliance/Sanctions/page.aspx/347
http://asa.org.uk/About-ASA/Working-with-others/Cross-border-complaints.aspx
http://www.easa-alliance.org/Complaints-compliance/How-to-complain/page.aspx/103
The authority to enforce actions has some nuances to it: http://www.easa-alliance.org/Complaints-compliance/Sanctions/page.aspx/347
I'm not quite sure what is going on here. The companies cited in those links were not guilty of offering services that weren't provided, or of selling defective merchandise, or even of selling products not as advertised. They weren't comparing their products to any other specific competitors (in which case objective supporting data is required, although that data doesn't have to meet strict scientific or engineering standards and may come from a biased tester) or really doing anything likely to get them noticed (much less sanctioned) by something like the FTC. caveat emptor, after all this is advertising.
This type of regulatory agency can be dangerous because it creates a false idea of protection in consumers. If you look at the examples referred the advertisements were really technically incorrect in general electrical and physics, or the claims were so excessive the were ridiculous. The main consequence is that HiFi adverts in the UK became wordy and poetry and avoid any technicalities - advertisements do not tell the consumers any specific details about the product - some of them almost avoid text. In some sense it was the revenge of analog - turntables and tonearms are the only components that can openly claim about correlation with technical specifications!
IMHO its just started a different way of advertisement - you see the name and picture in the advertisement and the real advertisement supplied by the manufacturer in the News or similar section of the magazine.
IMHO its just started a different way of advertisement - you see the name and picture in the advertisement and the real advertisement supplied by the manufacturer in the News or similar section of the magazine.
Ethan,
I almost sure that they would ban your slogan "Making the World Sound Better - one room at a time" in any UK advertisement if someone complained about it. They would argue treating one room would not affect significantly the RT60 of the World or even that you can not produce enough panels in a lifetime to do it.
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Exactly why did you join this forum? If you want to start with fraudulent claims, start with your church and religion. Prove God exists. If not, then stop with this nonsense and go back to wreck.audio.high-end where this garbage belongs.
I like this thread. I never thought I'd caucus with a New York progressive. I've also discovered I may not be the only Anarcho-capitalist on this forum.
Ditto.
Matches the OP.
And religion has caused more destruction and suffering than audio ever has.
Myles, with all due respect. While the management team may wonder the same thing, it is not your place to attempt to moderate. Nor is it any members place to publicly attempt to displace a members intentions. This member is under a watchful eye, as with all members but please remember to be cordial in response. That is the ultimate goal of the WBF.
The bold in your quote was added by myself.
Tom
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