New Apogee Divas

[Zero000]

How much?

Already said not saying as he might have changed it. But I strongly suspect if he has it won't be by much.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Whatever.

 

[Zero000]

Exactly. It's irrelevant for all intents and purposes. Unless you deem the ballpark sum indicated reasonable for a pair of speakers.

I don't. Not wealthy enough.

 

[cjfrbw]

The original Definitive could be had in the day for $25K plus some S&H. They were nominally of a much higher efficiency than standard Apogees due to the stronger magnets, somewhere around 94-96db or so. They were not modeled on Diva. They were actually intended to be idealized Scintillas without the impedance penalty. I think the impedance was also in the 4-6 ohm range. They were also designed for external crossovers/active crossovers. I'm sure like everything else, Definitives have gone through many variations over time. That price seemed high at the time, which shows how much audiophile inflation has grown by leaps and bounds. I was contemplating purchasing them as an end stage setup, but the weight and size put me off a bit since I am into non-Tongan-weightlifter modular setup, so I wound up with a good deal on Analysis Epsilon.

I'm sure I have some more accurate archived information on my old computer backups, where I kept outtakes of the old Apogee forum, but I am too lazy to go hunting for them.

 

[Zero000]

The original Definitive could be had in the day for $25K plus some S&H. They were nominally of a much higher efficiency than standard Apogees due to the stronger magnets, somewhere around 94-96db or so. They were not modeled on Diva. They were actually intended to be idealized Scintillas without the impedance penalty. I think the impedance was also in the 4-6 ohm range. They were also designed for external crossovers/active crossovers. I'm sure like everything else, Definitives have gone through many variations over time. That price seemed high at the time, which shows how much audiophile inflation has grown by leaps and bounds. I was contemplating purchasing them as an end stage setup, but the weight and size put me off a bit since I am into non-Tongan-weightlifter modular setup, so I wound up with a good deal on Analysis Epsilon.

I'm sure I have some more accurate archived information on my old computer backups, where I kept outtakes of the old Apogee forum, but I am too lazy to go hunting for them.

I think you are getting confused between Synergy and Definitive.

Synergy was modelled on Scintilla and was 2.5 Ohms.

 

[cjfrbw]

I think you are getting confused between Synergy and Definitive.

Synergy was modelled on Scintilla and was 2.5 Ohms.

You are correct. The Synergy was probably the original Graz edifice speaker. I suppose Definitive came later. Synergy was the one that modeled Scintilla. It was at a much more reasonable price than what we currently take for granted and at a higher efficiency.
I think he displayed Synergy once in London or at an audio show. I haven't kept up with the Apogee groups or chatter for some years. I had bought a couple of Graz ribbon replacements for Stage, and Graz sent me some special foils to modify my Aurum Cantus foil tweeters.

So much for relying on memory. I thought impedance was higher, but anything Scintilla with a pure aluminum driver would probably come in low without an impedance matching transformer.

So, is Definitive modeled on Diva or Grand?

 

[Zero000]

I am unsure but

You are correct. The Synergy was probably the original Graz edifice speaker. I suppose Definitive came later. Synergy was the one that modeled Scintilla. It was at a much more reasonable price than what we currently take for granted and at a higher efficiency.
I think he displayed Synergy once in London or at an audio show. I haven't kept up with the Apogee groups or chatter for some years. I had bought a couple of Graz ribbon replacements for Stage, and Graz sent me some special foils to modify my Aurum Cantus foil tweeters.

So much for relying on memory. I thought impedance was higher, but anything Scintilla with a pure aluminum driver would probably come in low without an impedance matching transformer.

So, is Definitive modeled on Diva or Grand?

Definitive was before Synergy. Maybe it was modelled on Full Range but I am unsure. It looks like it, though.

Solid steel frame, Corian front covers. Neo mags. 4 Ohms.

Here's the classic Definitive shot with them running off three 19 Watt (if I remember correctly) stereo tube amps chez Graz.

 

[Zero000]

I remember the Definitives being listed on HigherFi for $105K and there is still proof of that here: Definitive Listing.

EDIT: hold on there are four tube amps in the above shot...

 

[cjfrbw]

Yes, I remember Definitive a bit now. I think it was based on Grand. The original Grand had the subwoofers with Krell amps included as well as finicky, elaborate electronic crossovers. Considering that in inflation related equivalencies, Grand would be well over $200K now, Definitive wouldn't be comparatively that bad on the audiophile seismic price scale, especially considering the 'horn level' efficiency for ribbons.

 

[spiritofmusic]

So Justin, the Definitive WAS a production model/special order? Or a mirage product?

I remember talking to Jon two years ago about the beefed-up new production Duetta variant for $30k-ish. Over the 12 months I was in contact w Jon, it never materialised.

Despite ball crushing prices, at least Alsyvox have real world production.

 

[Zero000]

I don't think a pair ever made it over here.

If you ordered some I don't doubt they would do, but your just not gonna do that.

Alsyvox are.making a proper attempt to market their speakers at shows.

BTW I do not think Definitive was based in the Grand. It shares nothing in common with it. No built-in subs, it used a smaller bass panel, it has no active amplification. It was based on Full Range if it was based on anything.

 

[cjfrbw]

I know that I heard that a few people did order and receive Synergy. Definitive was a concept build at first, so I don't know if Graz ever had any actual orders for it. It would be interesting to find out if anybody ordered them and who.

 

[cjfrbw]

I don't think a pair ever made it over here.

If you ordered some I don't doubt they would do, but your just not gonna do that.

Alsyvox are.making a proper attempt to market their speakers at shows.

BTW I do not think Definitive was based in the Grand. It shares nothing in common with it. No built-in subs, it used a smaller bass panel, it has no active amplification. It was based on Full Range if it was based on anything.

I would certainly defer to better memories. Here's a pic of Grands.
At any rate, they are an homage to the big Apogees of the past.

Apogee Full Range with wings

 

[spiritofmusic]

Yes Justin, but what about that more affordable "Nu Duetta". Jon said Graz had it close to production all the time. But 12 months later, still nothing. That's the point when you convinced me to go with a Jon-refurb, and not hold my breath.

 

[Zero000]

I think only one pair of Definitives was made.

 

[spiritofmusic]

FOUR Nat Transmitter monos. Jeepers!

 

[bonzo75]

FOUR Nat Transmitter monos. Jeepers!

That's the one in Switzerland. I have been there. The guy is superbly enterprising. He bought it when he was 22. Drove 14 hours either way with three friends to pick it up. Then refurbished a lot of it himself.

 

[cjfrbw]

That's the one in Switzerland. I have been there. The guy is superbly enterprising. He bought it when he was 22. Drove 14 hours either way with three friends to pick it up. Then refurbished a lot of it himself.

Would that be "Tiny Tim" from the Apogee group? I thought he was German. I guess his parental outpatient care funded his audiophile hobby. He had Grands, which turned out to be shot, and completely refurbished the speakers and electronics, which were also shot. It is hard imagine what caused a pair of Grands to deteriorate that much.

I remember he was driving his parents?? big Audi on the Autobahn, and got in a high speed collision. The car was crumpled and totaled, but he was uninjured.

 

[bonzo75]

German part of Switzerland.

He was quite an analytical guy, on how he went about measurements and the hobby. Very interesting to talk to

 

[Zero000]

Here we go. Did say they weren't cheap.

"
on Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:54 am

Hello Guys!

Rare to have activity these days, but more gentle than previous speaker releases!

I tend to spend time in the workshops rather than in forumland!

The build here is basic,resistance is as per the later 1980's Divas, sensitivity about 89dB/w on the normal scale. They are on their way to the lucky new owner soon...

Cost for this build starts at $82K USD, plus crossover (several options). The Diva Encore main panel design is fixed (no options), but as the crossover is external the client can have input for any specific brand fetishes he/she has!

As with all Encore/E type new builds, clients can send their original classic planars down to us where suitability can be assessed, options given to use what makes the grade in an Encore level restoration. Very few parts can be used of the early speakers, but such a build is the ultimate in revival/restoration...

Graz"