Nagra HD DAC with Classic PSU
- Thread starter Fohlenfan
- Start date
I bet you're going to be THRILLED ! Congratulations ! Did you also get the VFS plates? They help my Nagra VPS and MPS quite a bit...
:b I‘m really nervos. I did not plan to do another invest at this major category. But some unlucky circumstances made me change my mind. I bought a Kondo Overture pm2i one year ago. Nobody told me that it has no „Auto Bias“ for the Power Tubes. So one went off After about 500h. I had replacement Tubes, but can‘t do the change by my own. German Distributor and Austrian Dealer wan‘t me to ship the amp, Every Time on my cost if this will happen. So I‘m really Disapointed from this Customer unfriendly Behaviour.
So I traded the Kondo in and things get going.
I will use a HRS Base under the Dac and some Franc Audio Feets under the PSU. I hope this will work as good as the VPS. Budget was at the limit. Price for the PSU is Double to the MPS.
Kind regards
Lars
Hopefully the auto-bias will do more than just protect the tubes. It should help maintain their audio performance throughout the life of the tubes.
Hello Fohlenfan,
May I know is it difficult to open up the Kondo PM21 and replace the dead tube?
" ...no Auto Bais ..." - You mean owners have to set bais for each of the EL34 manually and that there is no protection circuit for them?
Thanks.
May I know is it difficult to open up the Kondo PM21 and replace the dead tube?
" ...no Auto Bais ..." - You mean owners have to set bais for each of the EL34 manually and that there is no protection circuit for them?
Thanks.
Kondo pm2i no auto bias
Hi,
First of all, if one tube has an error, you should change all of the Four EL34, because you Need a Matched Quartett.
To open the amp and change the Tubes is done in a minute. But Then you have to Check the optimal working point for all of the Four tubes manually. Other amps are doing this with a Electronic. This Prozess is called „Auto Bias“ i guess. To do this by hand means to work on the amp with power on. This Could take your life, if you are not used to it. So nothing for me. I‘m just a music Lover, Not an electrician. Nobody told me that before. If your dealer is near by, everything is fine, beside of the cost for the new tubes. If Not you have to ship the amp every single time this happens. I hope know it is a bit clearer what my thoughts are.
Kind regards
Lars
Hi,
First of all, if one tube has an error, you should change all of the Four EL34, because you Need a Matched Quartett.
To open the amp and change the Tubes is done in a minute. But Then you have to Check the optimal working point for all of the Four tubes manually. Other amps are doing this with a Electronic. This Prozess is called „Auto Bias“ i guess. To do this by hand means to work on the amp with power on. This Could take your life, if you are not used to it. So nothing for me. I‘m just a music Lover, Not an electrician. Nobody told me that before. If your dealer is near by, everything is fine, beside of the cost for the new tubes. If Not you have to ship the amp every single time this happens. I hope know it is a bit clearer what my thoughts are.
Kind regards
Lars
Your HRS base and feet under PSU will work great. Nagra is very simple to use, very easy to replace a tube. I doubt the tube will fail, they are highly tested by Nagra and I'd expect up to a 10,000 hour lifespan for the tubes
Bummer about why you had to buy this, but Nagra is really super equipment. Let us know what you think when it's installed...I suspect it'll take a few days to warm up/settle in before it sounds best
Hello Lars,
I think you have made the right decision to cancel the order.
The original HD DAC is 4 years old.
Nagra must have given the new HD-DAC-X many new ideas/advances.
The most obvious example is that its new powersupply is similar to yet even better than the HD Preamp's .
Total dac is much better, even lower models. Nagra is a one artefact dac, you will initially here a smooth sound nothing else. Fine for simple music.
The word I used to describe the Nagra HD dac was ‘liquid’. I compared it directly to the GG1.5 and the original Aqua Formula. The presentation of the Nagra did feature that liquidity as an artifact and it seem to have an element of sameness in that way.
Still I liked it and think it would fit some system contexts and tastes perfectly; just not mine.
It depends on system. I have owned Nagra electronics, the CD player and a DAC (a slim box, I do not remember the model) and sometimes it would sound exactly as you say - too smooth and uninteresting. However with the proper cables and speakers it could play complex music, even contemporary classical and coral in a fantastic way.
Nagra is a not an easy brand to deal with - it needs a well thought pairing. But I have had great listening with it in the past, one year ago I tried the Classical amplifier with the XLF in my room and it was a very good amplifier - great value for money.
The Nagra HD DAC was compared over the last few years to the best D/AC by dealers and reviewers and the feedback I did get is that they prefer the analog natural sound of the Nagra over other DAC. More texture, 3D imaging and beautiful timber. David Robinson of Positive Feedback think that is way better than any digital playback when use with a great server. He did give Brutus award 2018 to the HD DAC. It is the reference D/A of Chab, the mastering engineer of Daft Punk “Random Access Memory” album. It was Hifi+ DAC of the year 2016 (when they review it) and the reference in many other magazines.
The digital board upgrade that will be available in December 2018 for all HD DAC owners is all new from the inputs AES, SPDIF, AT&T in and out, new USB circuitry as well. The new core of the D/A is processing audio at 11.2MHz _72Bit with a brand new algorithme. You should definitely get a chance to hear the HD DAC and forge your opinion. It will be on demo at the CES in Las Vegas in room 29-203 or certainly at a dealer next to you. We are available to guide you to the nearest dealer that will have the new HD DAC on display...
Rene Laflamme, Nagra audio
The digital board upgrade that will be available in December 2018 for all HD DAC owners is all new from the inputs AES, SPDIF, AT&T in and out, new USB circuitry as well. The new core of the D/A is processing audio at 11.2MHz _72Bit with a brand new algorithme. You should definitely get a chance to hear the HD DAC and forge your opinion. It will be on demo at the CES in Las Vegas in room 29-203 or certainly at a dealer next to you. We are available to guide you to the nearest dealer that will have the new HD DAC on display...
Rene Laflamme, Nagra audio
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Any updates on the Classic PSU? My dealer just received PSU. Will be doing an extensive demo
The new ClassicPSU is available since a couple of months now but there are so many orders that it is not easy to get one.
You can order with 2 or 3, 12V outputs. Because the SuperCapacitors take more room inside the châssis the maximum output is 3.
I told a HDDAC customer from Miami that ask me how much better it will be and I told him at lease 40% better. And he order one back in July. He call me back a month ago:
I told a HDDAC customer from Miami that ask me how much better it will be and I told him at lease 40% better. And he order one back in July. He call me back a month ago:
"Rene it is not 40 % better it is just a other expérience. I am now at the session with the musiciens!
That customer uses it with headphone.
We did also a couples of shows with the new Classic PSU in 2018.
In 2017 I did play most of the time at shows some master tapes on Nagra T with tube tape head electronics and also turntable so analog sources play a lot about 80% of the time. But in 2018 with the new ClassicPSU on the HD DAC I play about 40% analog source and 60% digital. At the last RMAF in Denver we got 5 Best sound of show without turntable. That was just impossible before!
In 2017 I did play most of the time at shows some master tapes on Nagra T with tube tape head electronics and also turntable so analog sources play a lot about 80% of the time. But in 2018 with the new ClassicPSU on the HD DAC I play about 40% analog source and 60% digital. At the last RMAF in Denver we got 5 Best sound of show without turntable. That was just impossible before!
I hope you will get what you are looking for.
Rene Laflamme, Nagra audio
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[QUOTE
The digital board upgrade that will be available in December 2018 for all HD DAC
Rene Laflamme, Nagra audio[/QUOTE]
Rene - good to know there is an upgrade path - is there as approximate cost for this
To OP
I have had the Dave and latest meitner dac in my system and thought the dave produced the most sparkilingly clear detail retrieval but at the end of the day was a bit lean and lacked a natural organic sound - the meitner and nagra were very similar with meitner having some of the Dave detail and on the evening i thought the meitner performed the best on large symphonic works however after it was all packed up and I went back to listening I had no buyers remorse - on the contrary - the Nagra sounds very analogue to me and I do not get any sense of a false "liquidity" - in fact digital precision in a natural sound is how I would describe it
I have only heard Total DAC at a show and it was limited by room and system and not very good - one thing I have never understood is that the total DAC usb cable sounds to me like a filter taking the life out of the music so I have always wondered how that approach translates to the DAC
as always the speakers are producing the majority of the distortion so alignment of source etc. to suit speakers is a big issue so the normal caveats apply
cheers,
Phil
The digital board upgrade that will be available in December 2018 for all HD DAC
Rene Laflamme, Nagra audio[/QUOTE]
Rene - good to know there is an upgrade path - is there as approximate cost for this
To OP
I have had the Dave and latest meitner dac in my system and thought the dave produced the most sparkilingly clear detail retrieval but at the end of the day was a bit lean and lacked a natural organic sound - the meitner and nagra were very similar with meitner having some of the Dave detail and on the evening i thought the meitner performed the best on large symphonic works however after it was all packed up and I went back to listening I had no buyers remorse - on the contrary - the Nagra sounds very analogue to me and I do not get any sense of a false "liquidity" - in fact digital precision in a natural sound is how I would describe it
I have only heard Total DAC at a show and it was limited by room and system and not very good - one thing I have never understood is that the total DAC usb cable sounds to me like a filter taking the life out of the music so I have always wondered how that approach translates to the DAC
as always the speakers are producing the majority of the distortion so alignment of source etc. to suit speakers is a big issue so the normal caveats apply
cheers,
Phil
Can you explain us what is exactly the Nagra HD DAC X? Is it a completely new DAC or an improved version of the HD DAC?
Rene - good to know there is an upgrade path - is there as approximate cost for this
To OP
I have had the Dave and latest meitner dac in my system and thought the dave produced the most sparkilingly clear detail retrieval but at the end of the day was a bit lean and lacked a natural organic sound - the meitner and nagra were very similar with meitner having some of the Dave detail and on the evening i thought the meitner performed the best on large symphonic works however after it was all packed up and I went back to listening I had no buyers remorse - on the contrary - the Nagra sounds very analogue to me and I do not get any sense of a false "liquidity" - in fact digital precision in a natural sound is how I would describe it
I have only heard Total DAC at a show and it was limited by room and system and not very good - one thing I have never understood is that the total DAC usb cable sounds to me like a filter taking the life out of the music so I have always wondered how that approach translates to the DAC
as always the speakers are producing the majority of the distortion so alignment of source etc. to suit speakers is a big issue so the normal caveats apply
cheers,
Phil[/QUOTE]
For the original HDDAC owner to up grade to the new digital board 11.2MHz 72 Bit will be $5500 USD in the US. That includ the shipping back and for at the factory in Switzerland.
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