Munich HighEnd 2024

[Ron Resnick]

Been Up All Night ? Roy Gregory The hostile witness …. YAWN … There are opinions all over the place

https://www.techradar.com/audio/5-o...fted-speakers-i-heard-at-high-end-munich-2024



https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2024/05/11/friday-at-the-munich-show-munich-2024/



https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/munich-high-end-2024.412508/

Yes, I find fascinating how polarizing that system was to people. I adore Stavros, and in my opinion he's one of the industry's top designers, so I just find it truly baffling. I wish I had been there to hear it myself.

I have had major personal FoMO not going to this year's Munich show. The Munich show typically is in the middle of our anniversary vacation week, but I am planning to go next year.

 

[Argonaut]

Opinions …Opinions …

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/munich-highend-2024.38470/post-969392

The abridged version :

As for the disappointments:

- Goldmud Sound Systems: Lacking in power and credibility.

- CH + Wilson XVX: Thin and unexciting sound, despite previous positive experiences.

- Nagra + Stenheim: Disappointing sound quality, despite the opportunity to purchase HD Vinyl and discs at a discount.

- Boulder Audio + YG: Failed to meet expectations, with the size of the disappointment matching the anticipation.

To sum it up, I'm probably more fond of horn speakers than I admit, and I don't find most Swiss audio gear to my taste.

 

[Argonaut]

Yes, I find fascinating how polarizing that system was to people. I adore Stavros, so I just find it baffling.

Well to be fair Ron we are squabbling over the 2024 AC system rather than the man …

 

[bonzo75]

Yes, corrected in my previous post. Thank you.

They are both Gregs. And Martion horn is named after you

 

[Audiohertz2]

Here’s my 3M supercar , starts , spits flame , cough and bangs ..!

WBF - It’s Polarizing

 

[Al M.]

Yes, I find fascinating how polarizing that system was to people. I adore Stavros, and he's one of the industries top designers, so I just find it baffling.

Why do you find it baffling, Ron? Could it not be that, while Aries Cerat is generally very good, this particular set-up sucked, possibly exacerbated by a difficult room and other factors? We know that show conditions are notoriously difficult.

How many times have you not heard Avantgarde horns and disliked them, until recently you had a few extraordinarily positive experiences? Maybe those other setups simply sucked too, not the speakers.

I have heard systems using some of the components in mine that sucked too. Was it the fault of those components, no. You just ignore the data point and move on. Nothing baffling about it.

What I do find baffling is the cult-like defense of this particular Aries Cerat set-up here, including by some who haven't even heard it.

 

[Audiohertz2]

Cant we all just stick to “polarizing” suck , Bad , fail , all sounds too egregious ..!

 

[D.Duttilleux]

It has nothing to do with anything else no values no brands just nothing in common period.

No values, nothing...

Are you sure?

2 examples, the first is audio related and the 2nd self-explanatory:



Presumably the people at Lorenzo Audiolabs know what I'm referring to.

From their philosophy:

"To achieve our vision, we investigated the sound produced by benchmark products during the hi-fi golden years, as well as the best that current science and technology offers."

 

[Argonaut]

Cant we all just stick to “polarizing” suck , Bad , fail , all sounds too egregious ..!

Do please cease and desist with the long words Audio …some folks haven’t been sleeping well !

 

[Elliot G.]

No values, nothing...

Are you sure?

2 examples, the first is audio related and the 2nd self-explanatory:

View attachment 131209View attachment 131211

Presumably the people at Lorenzo Audiolabs know what I'm referring to.

From their philosophy:

"To achieve our vision, we investigated the sound produced by benchmark products during the hi-fi golden years, as well as the best that current science and technology offers."

not for me the example was just the apples and oranges not quality or anything else A monster modified truck versus a precision sports care is my point

 

[Ron Resnick]

Why do you find it baffling, Ron? Could it not be that, while Aries Cerat is generally very good, this particular set-up sucked? We know that show conditions are notoriously difficult.

Hi Al,

I'm not comparing the reports of this Aries Cerat set-up to other Aries Cerat's set-ups. I personally have never heard a partial or a complete Aries Cerat set-up I have not liked. I like Aries Cerat in general. For example, the Kassandra DAC was one of my two favorites out of about 10 DAC contenders.

I'm saying I am baffled about the conflicting reports arising from this particular Aries Cerat set-up.

Numerous reports say that this Aries Cerat set-up was excellent, which, obviously, conflict with the numerous reports which say this set-up was unimpressive, disappointing or problematic. I think it is unusual to find such polarization in audio reporting.

 

[morricab]

Here’s my 3M supercar , starts , spits flame , cough and bangs ..!

WBF - It’s Polarizing

I see you like my word…glad I could help…

 

[morricab]

Hi Al,

I'm not comparing the reports of this Aries Cerat set-up to other Aries Cerats set-ups. I personally have never heard a partial or a complete Aries Cerat set-up I have not liked. I like Aries Cerat in general. For example, the Kassandra DAC was one of my two favorites out of about 10 DAC contenders.

I'm saying I am baffled about the conflicting reports arising from this particular Aries Cerat set-up.

Numerous reports say that this Aries Cerat set-up was excellent, which, obviously, conflict with the numerous reports which say this set-up was unimpressive, disappointing or problematic. I think it is unusual to find such polarization in audio reporting.

Exactly…Polarizing…and it mattered a lot which day you heard it.

 

[Al M.]

I think it is unusual to find such polarization in audio reporting.

Not sure about that, Ron. People have not just different perceptions but different agendas, too.

There were incredibly glowing reports on the large Von Schweikert system at AXPONA 2017. I could only scratch my head about the reports. I found it awful, or more precisely, plain mediocre sounding, not worth the money by any means. It sounded way worse than my favorite at that show of perhaps a tenth or even a twentieth of the system price.

Do I doubt that Von Schweikert can sound very good, even excellent? No, I don't. I just found the glowing reports on this particular set-up under those particular show conditions, frankly, disingenuous.

 

[D.Duttilleux]

Geddes discovered multiple subs and wrote a paper about it 25 yrs + after it was a known known by anyone doing it for 4ch or HT or recording studios ..!

So lets say he invented it for the internet

Most problems with integrating subs today is all the error correction after the fact servo controlled subs not to mention the ridiculous low xover hand off from mains to subs, +++...

Regards

​

 

[Elliot G.]

Exactly…Polarizing…and it mattered a lot which day you heard it.

well you made the top of some ones list . LOL

 

[Ron Resnick]

Not sure about that, Ron. People have not just different perceptions but different agendas, too.

There were incredibly glowing reports on the large Von Schweikert system at AXPONA 2017. I could only scratch my head about the reports. I found it awful, or more precisely, plain mediocre sounding, not worth the money by any means. It sounded way worse than my favorite at that show of perhaps a tenth or even a twentieth of the system price.

Do I doubt that Von Schweikert can sound very good, even excellent? No, I don't. I just found the glowing reports on this particular set-up under those particular show conditions, frankly, disingenuous.

All fair enough.

Another way to slice and dice this puzzle is to wonder if different people approach audio show exhibits with different expectation frameworks and different expectation criteria.

I don't expect speakers I have heard and liked in tweaked out demo rooms or at audiophiles' homes to sound as good at audio shows. I simply don't mentally apply the same criteria.

I subscribe to the view that if components or a system of a show don't sound good at an audio show, it doesn't really tell me much. But if a system sounds great at a show, then that suggests to me that one or more of the components in that system are worthy of further investigation.

Maybe I'm just a softer touch regarding audio shows. In all of the reporting I have done from Audio shows starting in 2015 I been explicitly extremely harsh and critical about exactly one (1) exhibit room. At audio shows I think quick set-up and bad electricity and sub-optimal rooms account for a relatively large fraction of the overall resulting sound we hear in the exhibits. So personally I'm just not going to ding components or systems or dealers for sound which is inferior to what I know those components and systems are capable of.

 

[Al M.]

All fair enough.

Another way to slice and dice this puzzle is to wonder if different people approach audio show exhibits with different expectation frameworks and different expectation criteria.

I don't expect speakers I have heard and liked in tweaked out demo rooms or at audiophiles' homes to sound as good at audio shows. I simply don't mentally apply the same criteria.

I subscribe to the view that if components or a system of a show don't sound good at an audio show, it doesn't really tell me much. But if a system sounds great at a show, then that suggests to me that one or more of the components in that system are worthy of further investigation.

Maybe I'm just a softer touch regarding audio shows. In all of the reporting I have done from Audio shows starting in 2015 I been explicitly extremely harsh and critical about exactly one (1) exhibit room. At audio shows I think quick set-up and bad electricity and sub-optimal rooms account for a relatively large fraction of the overall resulting sound we hear in the exhibits. So personally I'm just not going to ding components or systems or dealers for sound which is inferior to what I know those components and systems are capable of.

Ron, I think more or less we pretty much agree on all points.

Returning to my previous example, I also did not ding that large Von Schweikert system at the time, I simply ignored the data point for all the potential reasons you mentioned. Yet as I said, I found the discrepancy between the glowing reports and my own experience of it as at best plain mediocre appalling. Frankly, I think those glowing reports were simply not honest. Again, people have their agendas.

 

[KeithR]

I have heard the opus 1 with those Alieno electronics in a private set up. Maybe by Munich show standards it sounds good

I didn’t prefer this combo to the same Opus at last years Axpona on TW Acustic amps.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I didn’t prefer this combo to the same Opus at last years Axpona on TW Acustic amps.

+1

I like the Cessaro Opus plus subwoofers very much. But I much prefer them on SETs over even on Alieno (which I like a lot in other systems).