MSB's new Sentinel DAC

[andromedaaudio]

Digital seems to be pursuing some sort of game .

Becoming as good as analogue .........it should instead focus on what it does best.
Recording engineers should use both to capture the best / most suitable medium ( which they probably do )

 

[pk_LA]

Why not tape ?
Why compare to vinyl only ?

There are several qualities digital cannot ovecome no matter how much money they throw at it.

But there is also some music where digital excells like Organ and Electronic music

Tape is a bridge too far for me in terms of hassle. That said, it is, in my opinion and to my ears, the very best sounding.

 

[microstrip]

If you're hearing a distinct sonic difference between the Cascade driving the amp directly and running it through a preamp—aside from changes in gain—then your preamp is introducing distortion, coloration, or impedance-related artifacts. In that case, it’s not a transparent component—it's editorializing the signal. You may prefer that coloration, but let’s not confuse euphonic distortion with fidelity.

Good point, but we commonly address transparency from a subjective perspective. And yes, some "euphonic distortions" as you call it enhance our perception of more information and/or more true information about the musical event. Surely people are free to prefer their music without any kind of "euphonic distortion" - then perhaps they should listen in anechoic conditions, all room reflections are "added distortion" to the signal.

I know why I prefer ( and pay a lot for ) some "euphonic distortions" and dislike others.

I hate re-inventing the wheel, I will use Michael Fremer words:



https://www.absolutesounds.com/pdf/main/press/Relentless Preamp Review - TAS.pdf

If you are interested I suggest you forget the name of the reviewer and the referred brands - just go through the review to get an idea of what some of us are pursuing.

 

[Alrainbow]

My active speakers are all analogue, no DSP. Flat to below 20 Hz in room from sealed boxes. If I was using a passive crossover loudspeaker then I would use MSB’s own amplifiers. But having said that, why would I want to throw away most of the music (recovered by my MSB DAC) by using a deeply compromised passive crossover network when a properly implemented active system is superior in every way regardless of how much money one throws at the problem.

One’s preference for putting an active linestage preamplifier behind an ultra-resolution DAC is all about the idea of audio as a subjective musical instrument and not about high fidelity to the recording.

Are any of your drivers servo ?

 

[andromedaaudio]

Good point, but we commonly address transparency from a subjective perspective. And yes, some "euphonic distortions" as you call it enhance our perception of more information and/or more true information about the musical event. Surely people are free to prefer their music without any kind of "euphonic distortion" - then perhaps they should listen in anechoic conditions, all room reflections are "added distortion" to the signal.

I know why I prefer ( and pay a lot for ) some "euphonic distortions" and dislike others.

I hate re-inventing the wheel, I will use Michael Fremer words:

View attachment 155735

https://www.absolutesounds.com/pdf/main/press/Relentless Preamp Review - TAS.pdf

If you are interested I suggest you forget the name of the reviewer and the referred brands - just go through the review to get an idea of what some of us are pursuing.

You should listen for yourself and tell us what you think ??

Instead of Quoting reviewers / Magazines / Floyd T all the time

 

[andromedaaudio]

Tape is a bridge too far for me in terms of hassle. That said, it is, in my opinion and to my ears, the very best sounding.

The Studio owner / recording engineer who bought my Studer A80 RC mk2 bought it simply because he wanted to run the digital signal through it .
I asked him are you gonna record with it he said no i just run the digital signal through it to give it the tape sound.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

You should listen for yourself and tell us what you think ??

Instead of Quoting reviewers / Magazines / Floyd T all the time

why? what Fremer wrote is what we all hear just stated in a more entertaining way.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Tape is a bridge too far for me in terms of hassle. That said, it is, in my opinion and to my ears, the very best sounding.

Tape is the easiest thing get a restored Telefunken M15 A , they dont cost much .
Getting good tapes can be tricky , but since your in the US Chad kassems Acoustic sounds tapes are a good place to start

 

[andromedaaudio]

why? what Fremer wrote is what we all hear just stated in a more entertaining way.

If Fremer would use this as his preferred phonstage i would take him more serious

 

[Mike Lavigne]

If Fremer would use this as his preferred phonstage i would take him more serious


View attachment 155738

1---what the heck do you know about phono stages? compared the FM 223 phono linearizer to any others? or are you simply a brand fanboy and like to see those gold chassis?

2---that one is very long in the tooth. last updated in 2010-2011. it's been years since i heard an FM Acoustic phono and yes, they are pretty good but maybe not still tip top. i'm sure that it could be part of a nice vinyl front end. would it be the bee's knee's of solid state phono's? unlikely. could it compete with the CH Precision P10 for solid state phono champ? or this one either

3---i prefer a tubed phono with SUT's myself. but quite a few very nice phono pre's to choose from.

 

[andromedaaudio]

1 I use my ears .
2 good stuff doesnt need to be constantly updated
3 ....

 

[andromedaaudio]

Tape is a bridge too far for me in terms of hassle. That said, it is, in my opinion and to my ears, the very best sounding.

If you ever buy a tape machine and compare with digital make sure you try this tape stage , makes all the difference .
Its also great for recording / dubbing

EternalArts Universal Tape Stage | HIfi Audio High End klassisch

( I dont make any money of recommending this , its just cheap /good and works flawless)

 

[andromedaaudio]

1---what the heck do you know about phono stages? compared the FM 223 phono linearizer to any others? or are you simply a brand fanboy and like to see those gold chassis?

2---that one is very long in the tooth. last updated in 2010-2011. it's been years since i heard an FM Acoustic phono and yes, they are pretty good but maybe not still tip top. i'm sure that it could be part of a nice vinyl front end. would it be the bee's knee's of solid state phono's? unlikely. could it compete with the CH Precision P10 for solid state phono champ? or this one either

3---i prefer a tubed phono with SUT's myself. but quite a few very nice phono pre's to choose from.

I ve heard CH (10 series) numerous times also the HSE see below
Imo FMA is another league al together , but people will argue its just a show ...... i know nothing ... the usual bla bla.

Another favourite of mine is the new Vertere phono pre it sounded very nice with 268c / FM 111

 

[Alinous]

keeping the discussion on topic........reading the Cascade dac website description, where it specifies a passive internal preamp like the Select II, and then reading the Sentinel description, where it omits any mention of 'passive' preamp, it appears that the Sentinel might have an active preamp. the term they use is "Fully independent left / right analog preamp". they do not come out and say 'active' or 'passive', they do allow direct bi-amping so the preamp drive must be sufficient for more than one analog output which does point toward an active gain stage.

having owned and tried the MSB Select II passive preamp direct, i did mostly prefer my darTZeel preamp in the chain. but going direct was very fine for sure. so this is interesting. the proof is in the listening either way.

i've not read every post in this thread so maybe this has already been discussed? this issue is quite significant for any legit Sentinel intenders, as many are seeking minimal footprint and ease of use. if an active gain stage ups the ante to equate to a high level active pre then that is a big plus.

A quick look at the topic of whether or not to use a preamp with the MSB DAC. In my case, adding the Cello Audio preamp after the MSB Select II completely changes the spatialization. Without a preamp, it's more linear. The notion of adding sound with a preamp can, in my case, provide greater precision across all dimensions. There are plenty of other cable parameters, but that's off-topic.

 

[QuadDiffuser]

An update from early October on the Sentinel DAC:

Introducing The Sentinel DAC

UPDATE: This week marks the completion of the mechanical design for the Sentinel DAC. The Digital Director, Analog Converter, and Power Supply have now entered machine shop production — a major milestone that’s been years in the making. While discussing this with our machinist, Jonathan...

forum.msbtechnology.com

 

[QuadDiffuser]

Fresh photos of the Sentinel DAC from the 2025 Tokyo International Audio Show, sourced from attendees.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

An update from early October on the Sentinel DAC:

Introducing The Sentinel DAC

UPDATE: This week marks the completion of the mechanical design for the Sentinel DAC. The Digital Director, Analog Converter, and Power Supply have now entered machine shop production — a major milestone that’s been years in the making. While discussing this with our machinist, Jonathan...

forum.msbtechnology.com

interesting. exciting. so one picture does show an analog input so obviously it has an internal volume control and switching like the MSB Select II. we assume it's passive but don't know for sure yet. it is mentioned it can be hooked up directly to MSB amps.

i do wonder whether the passive volume attenuator can be bypassed with a line level output, for the most pure output to an active preamp of choice. that was always on my mind when i owned the Select II.....where i overall preferred my active dart preamp to the passive internal one. but maybe this internal pre is good enough to render that question mute.

 

[Young Skywalker]

interesting. exciting. so one picture does show an analog input so obviously it has an internal volume control and switching like the MSB Select II. we assume it's passive but don't know for sure yet. it is mentioned it can be hooked up directly to MSB amps.

i do wonder whether the passive volume attenuator can be bypassed with a line level output, for the most pure output to an active preamp of choice. that was always on my mind when i owned the Select II.....where i overall preferred my active dart preamp to the passive internal one. but maybe this internal pre is good enough to render that question mute.

It has two XLR and two RCA analog inputs. Given the amount of attention lavished on the analog conversion section, I expect the constant impedance volume control that follows to be as pure as a mountain stream in Spring.

As an MSB Reference DAC/Director user (routing phono preamps through its passive volume control), I would absolutely buy a Sentinel if I came into a very substantial amount of money. Otherwise, a Cascade DAC is more of a real-world aspiration.

 

[Dustin Symanski]

The Sentinel has my best preamp yet. I have been developing it for several years and it sounds amazing. It is a fully passive 18.75 Ohms with two selectable XLR outputs. A special output,, called the confluence output, allows for an optimized analog signal transfer to a future Sentinel amplifier I am currently designing. The DAC also supports full preamp bypass, but no other preamp I know of is capable of preserving the Sentinel DACs resolution. Careful layout and shielding was necessary to reach its incredible resolution. Any unused outputs are pruned to eliminate electrical stubs. It also has a bi-amp mode with two simultaneous independent XLR outputs per channel. Four total analog inputs are supported, two RCA and two XLR.

 

[Elliot G.]

Fresh photos of the Sentinel DAC from the 2025 Tokyo International Audio Show!

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thanks for the pictures is the unit actually working and playing at the event?