More 70's Music on Vinyl- Original or Early Pressings

[Bill Hart]

Bill, what i (and you) need to do is take a trip to the UK and go on a vinyl hunting expedition. the ~$15 per LP shipping charges are getting old

Could be fun. I used to do that, but I was mainly buying classical records then, and it was a long time ago. I wonder though, given the collector's market, whether it makes much difference- you can't really play test these things in the stores, most of the dealers know what the value is and if it is anything like wine, all the good stuff is put up for auction (online in the case of vinyl) anyway. When I went to Gruhn's in Nashville with my musician friend a couple years ago and wanted to check out some of their stringed instruments, none of the 'great stuff' was on the floor- they were all locked in a vault, and of course, were offered for sale online (e.g. 59 Les Pauls, early Telecasters and Broadcasters, those lucious single pick-up Firebirds, etc.).

 

[MylesBAstor]

I used to also get over to London and other parts of the UK quite regularly back in the '90s and early 2000s for work. Along the way, time always allowed for record hunting. Alas as Bill said dealers have gotten smaller and many of the great stores have closed (like the one in Croydon) or have gotten smarter and are selling on ePay. London like New York, is now almost cost prohibitive for a used record store to stay in business.

 

[Bill Hart]

In other news, a woman in Charleston, S.C. was charged with stabbing her roommate because he refused to stop playing the Eagles.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Maybe The Byrds would have been a better choice.

 

[hvbias]

For you Santana fans I highly recommend the US first pressing of Santana III, matrices 2b/2b on both sides. This is the best sounding Santana album I've heard. The bass, even on my ESL63s, is pretty funky!

Another nice Santana pressing that beats the Speakers Corner reissue is Caravansari. The Speakers Corner can't capture that tube warmth of the original. I have originals for their first album and Abraxas I need to compare to the new Mofis.

In other news, a woman in Charleston, S.C. was charged with stabbing her roommate because he refused to stop playing the Eagles.

This joke was posted on another forum, but it bears repeating for Seinfeld fans... she was a witchay woman

 

[jazdoc]

In other news, a woman in Charleston, S.C. was charged with stabbing her roommate because he refused to stop playing the Eagles.

Which reminds me of this classic scene from 'The Big Lebowski' --- NSFW!

 

[Bill Hart]

I just bought it. with my luck the lacquer is cut from a digital file

http://www.ebay.com/itm/141054876546?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

well, you scored on that. I bought it too, and just fired up the side with 'can't find my way home.' it is quiet, very open sounding, yes, antiseptic, but you can hear the performance clearly. Now, let's find that radio performance she did in Long Island with Lowell George.

 

[Bill Hart]

For you Santana fans I highly recommend the US first pressing of Santana III, matrices 2b/2b on both sides. This is the best sounding Santana album I've heard. The bass, even on my ESL63s, is pretty funky!

Another nice Santana pressing that beats the Speakers Corner reissue is Caravansari. The Speakers Corner can't capture that tube warmth of the original. I have originals for their first album and Abraxas I need to compare to the new Mofis.



This joke was posted on another forum, but it bears repeating for Seinfeld fans... she was a witchay woman

Thanks for the push on Carlos. I found a nice KC press of III and just found one of Caravansarai that is en route. I simply forgot how good he is and how fresh these records sound decades later. Good ones.

 

[mep]

In other news, a woman in Charleston, S.C. was charged with stabbing her roommate because he refused to stop playing the Eagles.

I saw that and had a good laugh. Women are getting more vicious. Today when I was on my way to the grocery store I had my blinker on to get over in the left lane. There was plenty of room for me to get over in front of the car that was behind me. I pulled into the left lane and the car behind me honked their horn. I looked in the rear view mirror only to see a woman flipping me the bird. I get to the grocery store and I'm at the butcher's case and they have Porterhouse steaks on sale and they only have one left. The new guy behind the meat counter is really slow mentally and I ask him if they have more Porterhouse steaks they can cut and he tells me no. I leave my cart in front of the meat case to go find a manager so he can see if they really have more steaks to cut. I come back and grab what I thought was the cart I left in front of the meat case and started walking away and some fat chick full of tattoos starts yelling and comes running up to me. She says "I thought I was going to have to catch you and give you a beating." I looked at her and said "Well, you might have caught me." And no, her purse wasn't in the cart and there was no reason for her to panic and think I was ripping her off.

 

[hvbias]

Bill if only you were closer


Led Zeppelin II RL 'narrow' dead wax (1) by docanalogue, on Flickr


Led Zeppelin II RL 'regular' dead wax (1) by docanalogue, on Flickr


Led Zeppelin II Classic Records (1) by docanalogue, on Flickr

I've finally found a non-trashed "narrow" dead wax copy of the Ludwig mastered II. My go to copy was a slightly later RL pressing on Columbia (CTH) that has the "regular" size dead wax. I admit not being able to hear much difference between the narrow and regular on my ESL63s when I did a comparison in the past, but the less than exceptional condition narrow dead wax copies may have skewed my results.

As much as I want to do this comparison right now, I'm going to pack the bike in the car and head to the lake house for what is probably one of the last weekends of good weather

 

[Bill Hart]

Bill if only you were closer


Led Zeppelin II RL 'narrow' dead wax (1) by docanalogue, on Flickr


Led Zeppelin II RL 'regular' dead wax (1) by docanalogue, on Flickr


Led Zeppelin II Classic Records (1) by docanalogue, on Flickr

I've finally found a non-trashed "narrow" dead wax copy of the Ludwig mastered II. My go to copy was a slightly later RL pressing on Columbia (CTH) that has the "regular" size dead wax. I admit not being able to hear much difference between the narrow and regular on my ESL63s when I did a comparison in the past, but the less than exceptional condition narrow dead wax copies may have skewed my results.

As much as I want to do this comparison right now, I'm going to pack the bike in the car and head to the lake house for what is probably one of the last weekends of good weather

Nice, not easy to find an unmolested copy- even chewed up copies of the RL/SS/narrow deadwax are real money. I'd love to have a minty one.
I did find a copy of Badfinger's "Straight Up" pressed by sterling that was still in shrink and never played! Got caught up in the 'Breaking Bad' finale fever.

 

[Bill Hart]

I highly recommend the Badfinger record i mentioned.
Tonite's playlist included Free Tons of Sobs, perhaps the best English electric blues record in memory. I found a pink rim which has the same matices (or so it appears) as the pink label. The thing is marvelous- the rims usually aren't as warm and rich as the earlier pink labels- but this one is very costly these days on the 'full' pink label. Banging thru yet another first or early pressing of Harvest, i now have three, in addition to the Chris Bellman remaster. (Bellman remastered Neil Young's Greatest Hits on Classic Records, but that sounds dramatically jiggered with compared to the original; the Bellman Harvest, which is gettable sealed is much closer to the sound of the original). Also banged through Caravanserai (still like Santana III better)- both KC pressings.
Also fired up yet another UK Vertigo of Vol 4- the first one i bought was trashed- this one is actually a second issue, which is rarer than the first issue. Some noise, and when i looked at the record as it was playing (it had been cleaned using the Audio Desk and looked fine when i placed it on the platter), there were small flakes of what looked like old liner detritus on the surface; i suspect that got churned up by the stylus. So, I pulled the record off and gave it another clean, and really cleaned the stylus ( and checked it using an illuminated loup). Ah, records....

 

[Bill Hart]

I recently got a very early pressing of Alice Cooper's "Love it to Death." The one with the 'banned' cover (Alice's thumb on 'Straight' label). I really didn't expect this copy to sound any better than my old Warner Green Label, which has been in my collection since it was new. The 'Straight' label pressing is insanely good, more punch, more air. Now, you may think 'early Alice Cooper'- meh. Not so. Killer guitar record- and sort of an early glam/metal/hard rock thing. Listening to it over a vivid, airy sounding pressing takes it up musically several notches, apropos the threads re whether fidelity and musical enjoyment have any real nexus.

 

[rockitman]

Nice, not easy to find an unmolested copy- even chewed up copies of the RL/SS/narrow deadwax are real money. I'd love to have a minty one.
I did find a copy of Badfinger's "Straight Up" pressed by sterling that was still in shrink and never played! Got caught up in the 'Breaking Bad' finale fever.

so is the narrow deadwax RL better than the regular RL ? Having just checked mine, I have the normal RL, not the narrow version...

 

[Bill Hart]

supposedly. I have the one with all the bells and whistles, 'RL' on both sides, SS on both sides, narrow deadwax on side two. Although my copy is at best a VG+--it is noisy in quiet passages, the thing just punches through and has a freight train quality. Tracks like 'Whole Lotta Love' involve so much manipulation- no doubt done through multiple overdubs, perhaps echoplex, leaving aside all the phasing gimmicks, that you can hear the 'generation loss' of these tricks- that's probably inherent in the master, and has nothing to do with the pressing. (I would assume you hear this on your Classic 45 rpm version as well?). I don't have the Classic of II (I have Classic of I and III, though on I, through a forum member, I got the Piros/Monarch cut circa 74 and had a shoot out a month ago here of various first pressings of LZ I). I have a bunch of other pressings of LZII including the early MoFi. The RL is unquestionably the best one I've heard.

 

[rockitman]

supposedly. I have the one with all the bells and whistles, 'RL' on both sides, SS on both sides, narrow deadwax on side two. Although my copy is at best a VG+--it is noisy in quiet passages, the thing just punches through and has a freight train quality. Tracks like 'Whole Lotta Love' involve so much manipulation- no doubt done through multiple overdubs, perhaps echoplex, leaving aside all the phasing gimmicks, that you can hear the 'generation loss' of these tricks- that's probably inherent in the master, and has nothing to do with the pressing. (I would assume you hear this on your Classic 45 rpm version as well?). I don't have the Classic of II (I have Classic of I and III, though on I, through a forum member, I got the Piros/Monarch cut circa 74 and had a shoot out a month ago here of various first pressings of LZ I). I have a bunch of other pressings of LZII including the early MoFi. The RL is unquestionably the best one I've heard.

Looking at mine under a magnifier, it appears my copy has RL and SS on both sides but does not have the side B narrow deadwax. I have not listened to it since I got an Audio Desk cleaner. Visually, my copy is almost NM. I need to give it an ultra clean and listen to it again.

 

[Bill Hart]

Looking at mine under a magnifier, it appears my copy has RL and SS on both sides but does not have the side B narrow deadwax. I have not listened to it since I got an Audio Desk cleaner. Visually, my copy is almost NM. I need to give it an ultra clean and listen to it again.

A really clean, quiet copy is very hard to find. I'm not sure you'll be improving things simply to get the one that has a little more 'bandwidth' on side 2 (I'm presuming the reason why the narrow deadwax is preferred is that there is a little more real estate occupied by the grooves, thus, better sound). I passed on a never played copy a year plus ago for $500- it just seemed like too much. Today, I'd bet that's worth double the amount. Most of the copies on the market aren't even in the condition mine is, sonically, let alone the one you have. My friend who has an amazing collection of first pressings of pop, has numerous copies of the RL Zep II and said he had to buy quite a few to get a minty one- and that was a long time ago, not recently....

 

[hvbias]

I never ended up properly comparing them back to back, I don't really want to burn myself out on the music. I can't hear much difference between the narrow and normal side 2. But my speakers are not the best at evaluating bass and dynamics. So I'm keeping both RL's until I get some speakers that are stronger in those areas. I'm fortunate that both these copies play pretty nice. The key is getting one that plays without groove wear/distortion more so than surface noise. Heavy VTF mistracking cartridges from back in the day will cause the former.

Bill I saw in your other thread that you had some Dead on vinyl. Check if you have a Kendun (or KD) green label pressing of Workingman's Dead. This is an absolute demo worthy LP. Music that just hangs in the air. I played the Rhino vinyl reissue afterwards and it could not keep up.

I was at Fidelis AV this summer for the Alexia unveiling. They have a hardcore analog only sales guy working there, a passionate Greek gentleman that isn't afraid to tell it like he sees it about digital Runs a vintage Thorens TD-124 and Kiseki. I hung out and chatted with him for an hour on all things analog. Had people coming in and out of the room and the LP he had on was the well known Pastorius/McLaughlin/De Lucia Friday Night in San Francisco, an early or original pressing on the red Columbia label with yellow outer text. Playing on some small Sonus Faber speakers with a 6C33 integrated amp and the sound was not bad though a bit zippy in the upper mids and lacking in bass. The thing that stood out was how insanely fast the attack was on the LP compared to the SACD. That sound stuck with me for a while and I finally got one of those original pressings that I'll be playing this week.

Some vinyl I have in the to be cleaned pile that I plan to evaluate - a WLP Close to the Edge. I need to check if this is mastered by George Piros, but talking to someone on another forum it sounds like this is a unique DJ cut, but with no early fades. I also have two pressings of the famous mono French Barclay Are You Experienced that is supposed to blow away the first pressing UK Track. I heard one of them back in the day and was not too impressed, but these copies are different mastering. And an original blue label Fantasy pressing of Willy and the Poor Boys (can't wait to hear this on 15 ips tape). The DCC vinyl is not bad, but sounds a touch subdued. And two recent acquisitions from another forum Neil Young's Zuma and a Piros mastered CSN Couch album.

So not much in the way of classic rock coming in The moons must have aligned with my favorite Ebay dealers all listing up killer jazz vinyl in the last few weeks.

 

[Bill Hart]

I never ended up properly comparing them back to back, I don't really want to burn myself out on the music. I can't hear much difference between the narrow and normal side 2. But my speakers are not the best at evaluating bass and dynamics. So I'm keeping both RL's until I get some speakers that are stronger in those areas. I'm fortunate that both these copies play pretty nice. The key is getting one that plays without groove wear/distortion more so than surface noise. Heavy VTF mistracking cartridges from back in the day will cause the former.

Bill I saw in your other thread that you had some Dead on vinyl. Check if you have a Kendun (or KD) green label pressing of Workingman's Dead. This is an absolute demo worthy LP. Music that just hangs in the air. I played the Rhino vinyl reissue afterwards and it could not keep up.

I was at Fidelis AV this summer for the Alexia unveiling. They have a hardcore analog only sales guy working there, a passionate Greek gentleman that isn't afraid to tell it like he sees it about digital Runs a vintage Thorens TD-124 and Kiseki. I hung out and chatted with him for an hour on all things analog. Had people coming in and out of the room and the LP he had on was the well known Pastorius/McLaughlin/De Lucia Friday Night in San Francisco, an early or original pressing on the red Columbia label with yellow outer text. Playing on some small Sonus Faber speakers with a 6C33 integrated amp and the sound was not bad though a bit zippy in the upper mids and lacking in bass. The thing that stood out was how insanely fast the attack was on the LP compared to the SACD. That sound stuck with me for a while and I finally got one of those original pressings that I'll be playing this week.

Some vinyl I have in the to be cleaned pile that I plan to evaluate - a WLP Close to the Edge. I need to check if this is mastered by George Piros, but talking to someone on another forum it sounds like this is a unique DJ cut, but with no early fades. I also have two pressings of the famous mono French Barclay Are You Experienced that is supposed to blow away the first pressing UK Track. I heard one of them back in the day and was not too impressed, but these copies are different mastering. And an original blue label Fantasy pressing of Willy and the Poor Boys (can't wait to hear this on 15 ips tape). The DCC vinyl is not bad, but sounds a touch subdued. And two recent acquisitions from another forum Neil Young's Zuma and a Piros mastered CSN Couch album.

So not much in the way of classic rock coming in The moons must have aligned with my favorite Ebay dealers all listing up killer jazz vinyl in the last few weeks.

Cool. I have that Barclay set but it is in Austin, so i haven't listened to it yet. I will sort thru the Dead stuff, all of it is old. I agree about the 'RL' problem being abuse, not noise inherent in the pressing itself, but then again, I have not heard my friend's mint one. Most of the records I have from the late 60's-early 70's that I bought when new are in surprisingly good condition- my first 'real' turntable was an AR with a Shure cartridge, and from there, I stepped up into separate table, arm, and better cartridges. The green label of Love it To Death that I have must have been purchased by my younger sister when it was released- I was not an Alice Cooper fan back then; regarded the band as the equivalent of "Kiss." Only with age and maturity did I realize how kick ass that record really is! (The 'thumb' copy is truly killer).
I've been finding all kinds of stuff as I am going through my shelves- sorta like 'home shopping network' without being online! Needless to say, that hasn't stopped me from buying more!
PS On Creedence, I have a couple that I think were Classic Records or Acoustech? Cosmo's Factory and Willy and the Poor Boys? They were fancy audiophile pressings, i played them once, and never listened to them again. I just bought some of the early Creedence albums on Verve (sorry, I meant Fantasy blue label), I look forward to hearing those, and I'll give the audiophile ones another go.

 

[hvbias]

Cool. I have that Barclay set but it is in Austin, so i haven't listened to it yet. I will sort thru the Dead stuff, all of it is old. I agree about the 'RL' problem being abuse, not noise inherent in the pressing itself, but then again, I have not heard my friend's mint one. Most of the records I have from the late 60's-early 70's that I bought when new are in surprisingly good condition- my first 'real' turntable was an AR with a Shure cartridge, and from there, I stepped up into separate table, arm, and better cartridges. The green label of Love it To Death that I have must have been purchased by my younger sister when it was released- I was not an Alice Cooper fan back then; regarded the band as the equivalent of "Kiss." Only with age and maturity did I realize how kick ass that record really is! (The 'thumb' copy is truly killer).
I've been finding all kinds of stuff as I am going through my shelves- sorta like 'home shopping network' without being online! Needless to say, that hasn't stopped me from buying more!
PS On Creedence, I have a couple that I think were Classic Records or Acoustech? Cosmo's Factory and Willy and the Poor Boys? They were fancy audiophile pressings, i played them once, and never listened to them again. I just bought some of the early Creedence albums on Verve (sorry, I meant Fantasy blue label), I look forward to hearing those, and I'll give the audiophile ones another go.

AcousTech did the CCR catalog, Steve Hoffman/Kevin Gray. I have their Cosmo's release and thought it sounded great, but that was the only time I've heard that album. Surprisingly the original Fantasys are very cheap. I have a weak condition Willy and the Poor Boys and even through the SN it's a nice, punchy rocking pressing, I'm looking forward to the upgrade.