Mind helping me with comments on a NOS tube selection?

[mg2c]

Hi
for a Unison Triode 20 amp, I need to replace two tubes in the line-stage. It has a what was described to me as a "classic" design: 1x ECC83, 2x ECC82, EL34 in the power stage.
Here's what I can select from:

ECC83:

• Philips JAN 12AX7WA 8726 AHA
• General Electric JAN 5751 87-48 33173
• JG-5751WA G.E. triple mica, D-Getter, blackplate
• Philips JAN 5751 USA

ECC82:

• Philips JAN 6189W 34167 USA 8752AEE
• Brimar 12AU7 - it displays "Made in England" on the back. One of the tubes shows a small print "2G (unreadable letter) / 3987", the other does not show any additional print.
• 6189 General Electric GE / USA

Eventually, I could get my hands on Philips "Miniwatt" ECC82/83, but there is no further information, yet.

Mind making comments about these tubes - your experiences, your suggestions in terms of quality and sound?
Thanks!

 

[Sablon Audio]

Ultimately people can comment on individual tubes in isolation but it’s far harder to make a prescriptive recommendation for a combination that works best for you in your system.

Although you haven’t asked about el34, a friend with a leben cs600 told me that the new sophia aqua beat his mullard and Philips nos el34. Hopefully that will save you some money.

For the novals, I would look at getting the earliest production you can find within your budget. When transistors came onto the scene in @1960, tube developments were to reduce production cost rather than improve sound quality.

Specifically for 12ax7, the 3 mica black plate 5751 would be a promising choice, not least of all D foil generation. Less gain with this model though.

For 12au7, if you can accommodate the extra heater current of e80cc then I would use that and swerve the options listed. Only made by Philips or Tungsram, the latter is better and cheaper.

Wrt to Philips Miniwatt, this brand makes some nice tubes with great presence and decent overall balance.

The thread below might help you with some more thoughts

Joe's Tube Lore

Audio Asylum - Joe's Tube Lore

www.audioasylum.com

 

[mg2c]

For 12au7, if you can accommodate the extra heater current of e80cc

How can I find out? The Unison Triode 20 is long out of production, any support email I wrote to the italian manufacturer was answered, but not completely satisfying - they sort of held back with a definitive answer as if they were not sure.
As for the Sophia Acqua: sounds interesting. Do you know, whether any European dealers/distributors exist?
Thank you for your help!

 

[Sablon Audio]

Sorry but I don’t have any insights on your equipment. The manufacturer or their dealers should know.

 

[Lowrider75]

Hi
for a Unison Triode 20 amp, I need to replace two tubes in the line-stage. It has a what was described to me as a "classic" design: 1x ECC83, 2x ECC82, EL34 in the power stage.
Here's what I can select from:

ECC83:

• Philips JAN 12AX7WA 8726 AHA
• General Electric JAN 5751 87-48 33173
• JG-5751WA G.E. triple mica, D-Getter, blackplate
• Philips JAN 5751 USA

ECC82:

• Philips JAN 6189W 34167 USA 8752AEE
• Brimar 12AU7 - it displays "Made in England" on the back. One of the tubes shows a small print "2G (unreadable letter) / 3987", the other does not show any additional print.
• 6189 General Electric GE / USA

Eventually, I could get my hands on Philips "Miniwatt" ECC82/83, but there is no further information, yet.

Mind making comments about these tubes - your experiences, your suggestions in terms of quality and sound?
Thanks!

What speakers will you be driving with this amp?

The 12AX7 is for gain and will greatly influence the sound. As stated above, 5751 has less gain.

Brimars add a lovely warmish timbre with good highs.

 

[tima]

Eventually, I could get my hands on Philips "Miniwatt" ECC82/83, but there is no further information, yet.

The early-60s Philps Miniwatt ECC83 is definitely worth seeking out. Another brand I like is the Westinghouse JAN 12AX7, circa early 1960s, yellow writing.

If you are willing to purchase from an US dealer, consider Tube World Express. Dealing with him for over 20 years, I can say they are an honorable seller and very accurate in both grading and sonic description. I purchased 2 pairs of the Philips Miniwatt a few months ago. They are not always available but show up regularly.

Search: 241 results found for "12AX7"

Best vintage audio vacuum tubes, (valves) for tube preamps, tube amplifiers, phono stages, stereos, guitar amplifiers, microphones, recording studio equipment, radios, ham radios, jukebox; GE, RCA, Mullard, Telefunken, Western Electric, Sylvania, Raytheon, Westinghouse, Tungsol, Siemens...

tubeworldexpress.com

 

[Lowrider75]

The early-60s Philps Miniwatt ECC83 is definitely worth seeking out.

Great tubes, I have a couple of pairs myself as well as ECC82's.
It should be noted that the Heerlen Holland Philips factory was also where Amperex was manufactured. The 1960s Philips Miniwatt and the Amperex Bugle Boy are identical tubes with the same tooling. This generation (1960s) Miniwatt and Bugle Boys have a more extended top-end than 1st generation. The earlier produced tubes (1950s) have long plates and a large halo getter while later production has a small halo getter. Nevertheless, all Amperex/Philips will produce a huge soundstage and warm, liquid mids.
All have white branding on the bottle with a delta symbol indicating Holland factory followed by the date code.
Amperex made in the US don't have this symbol and have a more forward sound than the Holland.

 

[Lowrider75]

FYI, JAN Philips are good tubes but have no relation to Philips Holland. They are made for the US military possibly by Sylvania.

 

[BruceD]

 

[marty]

View attachment 110008

Guidance like this is informative but hardly reproducible from listener to listener. Tubes can only be evaluated in the context of the equipment in which they are used. Remember that so many of these evaluations were done in the 70s and 80's so ask yourself if you think that the gear used for these evaluations were really state of the art or reference caliber? Almost all tube preamps were capacitor coupled and SS ancillary gear was hardly at the level they are today making many of these evaluations dated and different than they would be in some of today's SOA gear. Like many audiophiles, I've used many of these tubes and loved some, while others didn't do it for me. At the minimum, seek other opinions (Brent Jesse's site has some great info on small tubes) and have fun exploring.

 

[new2Krell]

The early-60s Philps Miniwatt ECC83 is definitely worth seeking out

I couln't agree more, having also used these tubes in the past.
For what it's worth, I have recently tried a full compliment of the same tubes (2 x phono stage, 2 x line stage) in my pre-amp - JJ ECC83S, Sylvania 12AX7 (nos), Raytheon 12AX7 (NOS), Brimar 6057 T (NOS), Mullard M8137 (NOS), I could suggest trying any of them.
The least preferred were the JJs. They came over as quite cold, detailed, but sounding analytical. Will undoubtedly suit certain systems and ears better.
The Sylvania, were next. Initailly quite impressed after the JJs, but ultimately also lacking a bit of warmth for me.
I quite liked the Raytheons. Quite punchy, a bit more warmth, good presentation, control. Good tubes for my system / ears and ones I could certainly listen to for longer periods.
Love the Brimar 6057s. These tubes just make me smile.
M8137, incredibly smooth and detailed, natural sound, good soundstage. Great tubes, but voices sound just a little "recessed", compared to the 6057s.
Ultimately, the 6057s seem to combine the benefits of the M8137s and the Raytheon tubes and are the preferred choice in my set up. The M8137 and Raytheon would come second, but for different reasons. They are not similar sounding tubes.

 

[tima]

I couln't agree more, having also used these tubes in the past.

Nice looking tiger.