Magico M9

[andromedaaudio]

I think gifts of equipment, er, excuse me -- long-term "loans" -- are too close to bribery for my comfort.

My employer had me sign a paper that i get fired if i accept gifts lol.
In general such is indeed very close to bribery.
Hard to call yourself strictly independant after such

 

[tima]

Why? I don't think it necessarily makes sense that the same exact maxims should apply to every industry, everywhere. We are not discussing the Ten Commandments.

You're a relativist. I understand.

 

[the sound of Tao]

My employer had me sign a paper that i get fired if i accept gifts lol.
In general such is indeed very close to bribery.
Hard to call yourself strictly independant after such

Mine too… nothing above $10 or it’s a conflict of interest… though I tell my design students that a bottle of wine under $10 isn’t a good gift anyways lol.

I also don’t know if when it’s homemade raspberry, walnut and banana bread if it’s sum bill of materials pushes it into forbidden $10+ gift territory but the home made limoncello and the chilli infused oil was certainly too much for me to say no. Jokes aside and not genuinely talking about any industry in particular but true distinctions can’t be bought, they’ve got to be earned. It’s like dishonesty in advertising… no-one really wins when the process itself loses it’s meaning.

 

[tima]

I think that being allowed to keep expensive equipment provided you say nice things about it is unscrupulous. Don't you?

I think gifts of equipment, er, excuse me -- long-term "loans" -- are too close to bribery for my comfort. Yes, the manufacturer receives a benefit from the public seeing his/her product permanently on the reviewer's "associated equipment" list, but I still think the practice stinks.

Even worse was the threat years ago by a reviewer to an amplifier manufacturer that his component will receive a bad review unless he allows the reviewer to keep the component.

Loans are not gifts, even if you think they are. If you receive a gift you can give it away or sell it.

If a reviewer lies, makes false statements about a piece of equipment, or shades his opinion to say something he would not otherwise say in order to receive something of value he would not otherwise recieve, that is wrong. Lying is wrong.

If a reviewer uses equipment that he does not own and he discloses that so others see that he is using it but does not own it, I don't see what the big deal is.

Your other example is about blackmail.

 

[tima]

i think in North America/USA, the horn/SET culture, and the economic support for promoting it, has almost been a zero for decades, with few isolated exceptions. and no brick and mortar presence for horns. maybe the European energy for horns is taking root slowly here more recently, but still just spotty for any big commerce with horns.

reviewers follow the focus of the listeners to be relevant. what else can we expect?

i do appreciate those doing horns and hope it gets more prevalent. i'd like to explore them myself but not much opportunity. but don't blame reviewers. these things happen organically.

you can't compare hifi to cars, there are zero DIY cars due to the laws. and mostly horns in this country are vintage or DIY to some degree. car reviewers review vintage about as often as hifi reviewer review vintage. i've seen it, but rare.

If would be fantastic if there was a way to review vintage speakers. I don't know who could sponsor such. The transport risk alone seems a huge liability/expense. I suspect forums and occasional reports of visits may be the best we can hope for.

Although there are a few instances here, the 'horn/set culture' as you call it seems Euro and Asian focused. What I don't know is if Euro horn manufacturers are willing to initiate or accept review offers from American reviewers/publications. Most US print publications require some established presence. I wonder if several smaller sized horn makers could form a consortium of some sort for American distribution. Presence and interest seem something of a chicken and egg issue.

Comparisons between modern and vintage horns could also be fascinating. It's tough to monetize the past with audio.

 

[morricab]

Cables are free and everything else is 50% retail. Its well known and is what it is.

If you see industry accommodation as "part of your compensation" then you are not an impartial reviewer. This is why I only trust Consumer Reports for reviews on consumer goods.

Never got anything free from any manufacturer or dealer for a review...seems that some do but not most. Only the most "important" reviewers perhaps?

 

[spiritofmusic]

Never got anything free from any manufacturer or dealer for a review...seems that some do but not most. Only the most "important" reviewers perhaps?

You're just not reviewing hard enough. If a job is worth doing, it's worth doing well.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Never got anything free from any manufacturer or dealer for a review...seems that some do but not most. Only the most "important" reviewers perhaps?

Not even cables ??

 

[bonzo75]

If would be fantastic if there was a way to review vintage speakers. I don't know who could sponsor such. The transport risk alone seems a huge liability/expense. I suspect forums and occasional reports of visits may be the best we can hope for.

Although there are a few instances here, the 'horn/set culture' as you call it seems Euro and Asian focused. What I don't know is if Euro horn manufacturers are willing to initiate or accept review offers from American reviewers/publications. Most US print publications require some established presence. I wonder if several smaller sized horn makers could form a consortium of some sort for American distribution. Presence and interest seem something of a chicken and egg issue.

Comparisons between modern and vintage horns could also be fascinating. It's tough to monetize the past with audio.

There is not much distribution margin in vintage. Also, vintage is a sales risk that if something goes wrong there are not necessarily back up parts ensure replacement, especially on large scale. And with vintage gear, depending on how they have survived and been modded, there will be differences. So, reviewing is difficult. Reviews are best suited to companies who manufacture on a larger scale, and can spare items to ship over to the reviewer

 

[tima]

There is not much distribution margin in vintage. Also, vintage is a sales risk that if something goes wrong there are not necessarily back up parts ensure replacement, especially on large scale. And with vintage gear, depending on how they have survived and been modded, there will be differences. So, reviewing is difficult. Reviews are best suited to companies who manufacture on a larger scale, and can spare items to ship over to the reviewer

Yes. Probably there are more one-offs than originals. Unlikely the review sample is something that can be purchased by more than one person. Conditions of sale become different than current models. Perhaps better would be interviews and listening sessions with brokers.

 

[morricab]

I certainly hope it is false. 50% off retail is rubbish. Lots of us do better than that as consumers!

THen the dealer would be selling to you for almost no profit...doesn't make sense...

 

[morricab]

Not even cables ??

Nope

 

[jeff1225]

Thus ridding their readership of need to endure the dual scourges of CVT and SUV staining the low to mid end market? Travel back 15 years and kick that one into some editorial pants.




Maybe if the entire staff hocked their inner city belongings while they were off playing with horns in their newly renovated barns. Diverting focus outside slick urbane designs and fast product cycles would allow returning to the quality of content defining TAS or any other heyday of technical print magazines.

This is absurd, you do realize.

I realize that there is an industry that many have bought into, and absurd industry that you are meant to believe. If you wish to believe, please go ahead and do so.

 

[jeff1225]

i think in North America/USA, the horn/SET culture, and the economic support for promoting it, has almost been a zero for decades, with few isolated exceptions. and no brick and mortar presence for horns. maybe the European energy for horns is taking root slowly here more recently, but still just spotty for any big commerce with horns.

reviewers follow the focus of the listeners to be relevant. what else can we expect?

i do appreciate those doing horns and hope it gets more prevalent. i'd like to explore them myself but not much opportunity. but don't blame reviewers. these things happen organically.

you can't compare hifi to cars, there are zero DIY cars due to the laws. and mostly horns in this country are vintage or DIY to some degree. car reviewers review vintage about as often as hifi reviewer review vintage. i've seen it, but rare.

These comments were made when Avantgarde was the rage, Jim Smith was importing them, and they were all over the shows.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

These comments were made when Avantgarde was the rage, Jim Smith was importing them, and they were all over the shows.

those were a niche inside a niche and were the exception that proves the point. clearly they had no wider effect (on the N.A market.....and are a product made in Germany) and how many reviewers had the room or gear or mentality/understanding to (1) review them, and then (2) go somewhere as a next step? no one said, hey, look at Avantgarde, let's bring a big horn to the USA market.

i'm not judging the product, only that it's not enough to blame reviewers for not jumping into horns and that part of the hobby.

you would have to review a whole system built around them. and if you did that, the effort would teach you to not try 'that' again. the ROI is a PITA.

 

[jeff1225]

those were a niche inside a niche and were the exception that proves the point. clearly they had no wider effect (on the N.A market.....and are a product made in Germany) and how many reviewers had the room or gear or mentality/understanding to (1) review them, and then (2) go somewhere as a next step? no one said, hey, look at Avantgarde, let's bring a big horn to the USA market.

i'm not judging the product, only that it's not enough to blame reviewers for not jumping into horns and that part of the hobby.

you would have to review a whole system built around them.

When Jim Smith was importing Avantgarde's they had national US distribution, were featured often in Stereophile, and had smaller models like the Uno and Solo. The Solo was even self powered. Avantgardes are driven perfectly by solid state electronics (there own amps are SS).

So no, they could easily been dropped into any system that had a Wilson dropped into it.

 

[microstrip]

(...) I was tired, stressed, and probably carrying some anxiety from the drive. (argh, Seattle traffic!) The dealer showroom was too small for the speakers, so it was a very near-field setup. And, it isn’t a great showroom overall to begin with. The dealer had a list of music he played, lots of classical which was boring (...)

Although I often enjoy your writings and style it seems to me we are loosing our time discussing this particular WAMM listening session and opinions on it. IMHO it was completely atypical - and shows a strong negative bias towards the WAMM's.

Sorry, but reading it sounded like you were describing your last dentist session, not a search for good sound quality. BTW, one reason I do not fly to audio shows the same day is that I know after a fly my hearing can be affected for a few hours.

 

[christoph]

It's tough to monetize the past with audio.

Except when you are from Utah
Or from Korea

 

[morricab]

When Jim Smith was importing Avantgarde's they had national US distribution, were featured often in Stereophile, and had smaller models like the Uno and Solo. The Solo was even self powered. Avantgardes are driven perfectly by solid state electronics (there own amps are SS).

So no, they could easily been dropped into any system that had a Wilson dropped into it.

Disagree that Avantgardes are best with SS. i have heard dozens of AG demos now and the best were always with lowish powered tube gear. Their SS amps with their horns sounds VERY forward and aggressive...

 

[morricab]

When Jim Smith was importing Avantgarde's they had national US distribution, were featured often in Stereophile, and had smaller models like the Uno and Solo. The Solo was even self powered. Avantgardes are driven perfectly by solid state electronics (there own amps are SS).

So no, they could easily been dropped into any system that had a Wilson dropped into it.

Solos didn't sound very good. THe new Zeros sound a lot better...particularly the partially active with tube amps