Lampizator Valve / Tube Rolling Review Thread

[Zero000]

$20K?

Huge piss take. If they ever sell some they'll probably fall over laughing

 

[christoph]

The 46 needs a 5 to 4 pin adapter. Takes about 15 minutes to make. Parts are about $10-15. I use Western Electric/Bell Telephone wire because I am a lunatic.

Thanks for the answer.
Is the 46 a top contender sonic wise for Lampi DACs?
Unfortunately I'm completely unable

 

[Sfox7076]

Yes, the 46 is in the top 10 tubes I have ever heard in a lampizator. And that is in at least 3-4 different setups.

 

[christoph]

Yes, the 46 is in the top 10 tubes I have ever heard in a lampizator. And that is in at least 3-4 different setups.

Would you be so kind to name your top 10 Lampi output tubes, please?
If possible with the matching recti?
That would be awesome

 

[Sfox7076]

All tubes are with the 274b unless otherwise noted. Note that it is hard to rate these becuase when you start moving rectifiers, is it to another entry? That's why the 422A won't show up. I like the STC 5R4GY (Footscray) more than the 422A, but they are close sounding (to me), but I prefer the cheaper STC (at least cheaper last I checked). And note, it isn't the Oldway made 5r4GY which sounds pretty awful to me. Note the first 4-5 on this are really close and the order gets moved around a lot to me.

WE 300B pre-1980
WE 275A with STC 5R4GY (Footscray)
46 (ST shape with non-cross top, though they are close)
Globe 46 (prefer ST because globe can sound a bit shrill on poor recordings and you need to balance it with a rectifier with less voltage drop (5AR4))
Takatsuki 300B with Haltron/Mazda CV717 or 274b
WE Tennis ball 101D with Haltron/Mazda CV717 or Holland 5AR4
Sylvania 45 (ST shape) with STC 5R4GY
Brimar 6A3 with Phillips Holland 5AR4
WE ST 101D with STC 5R4GY (Footscray)
A tube I am not discussing yet because I need to confirm that it isn't an issue in the Dac. They are not expensive...
Globe 45 (Cunningham or RCA)


Edit:

I also like the RK-60 rectifier, but I am not sure I have figured out where it falls into all of this.

 

[christoph]

All tubes are with the 274b unless otherwise noted. Note that it is hard to rate these becuase when you start moving rectifiers, is it to another entry? That's why the 422A won't show up. I like the STC 5R4GY (Footscray) more than the 422A, but they are close sounding (to me), but I prefer the cheaper STC (at least cheaper last I checked). And note, it isn't the Oldway made 5r4GY which sounds pretty awful to me. Note the first 4-5 on this are really close and the order gets moved around a lot to me.

WE 300B pre-1980
WE 275A with STC 5R4GY (Footscray)
46 (ST shape with non-cross top, though they are close)
Globe 46 (prefer ST because globe can sound a bit shrill on poor recordings and you need to balance it with a rectifier with less voltage drop (5AR4))
Takatsuki 300B with Haltron/Mazda CV717 or 274b
WE Tennis ball 101D with Haltron/Mazda CV717 or Holland 5AR4
Sylvania 45 (ST shape) with STC 5R4GY
Brimar 6A3 with Phillips Holland 5AR4
WE ST 101D with STC 5R4GY (Footscray)
A tube I am not discussing yet because I need to confirm that it isn't an issue in the Dac. They are not expensive...
Globe 45 (Cunningham or RCA)


Edit:

I also like the RK-60 rectifier, but I am not sure I have figured out where it falls into all of this.

Thank you very much for your impressive list.
Have you ever tried current production like EML or KR tubes?
Apart from the Taka 300b I don't know any of the tubes on your list and a compare with KR tubes would make it easier for me to cross reference

 

[Sfox7076]

Thank you very much for your impressive list.
Have you ever tried current production like EML or KR tubes?
Apart from the Taka 300b I don't know any of the tubes on your list and a compare with KR tubes would make it easier for me to cross reference

Yes; and I own some. I would list the 300B from Elrog as far down the list here. It is a great tube, but it shines much better in an amp than in the Lampizatior. I have not had good luck with KR tubes. I have a pair of PX25s from them with low hours because, well, I thought they belonged in the box. I tried the PX4s on a loan from a friend. No thanks. Have not tried the 242. Don't want to funds to go to something that will not be good to me. The Emission Labs 300B is very good, I put it just outside my top 10. I really like them. The Lampizator edition 45s from EML were special, but i didn't spend enough time to rank them. Hope that helps.

 

[adamaley]

I've never heard voices out of my system like I did when trying out David's set of 275A's paired with the 422a. Nothing I tried could replicate that.

@Sfox7076 How would you compare the original 300B to the 275A?

 

[Sfox7076]

I've never heard voices out of my system like I did when trying out David's set of 275A's paired with the 422a. Nothing I tried could replicate that.

@Sfox7076 How would you compare the original 300B to the 275A?

Now we are going to be discussing the finer points of 2010 or 2016 Bordeaux. So I have both tubes (I may have sold Dave his 275As, I don't recall). I think the 300Bs do midrange in a way that no tube has done before or since. I mean I love the 46 and the 01A tubes generally, but the real western 300B gets midrange so right that you just will not find anything better. Most of the music I listen to is heavy on the midrange, so I really love the 300B in this roll. The 300B doesn't lack in top end either. Where it may falter is bass. It is less pronounced than on some other tubes. It isn't bloated as some try to say (at least to me). It is all detail, but it is not as pronounced as some other tubes. The 275A is a compromise. You lose some of the midrange magic and sacrifice a bit of the top end, but some of the perceived lacking bass has returned. I say this as if this is bad. But you really only hear this if you compare the two. The fact is that the 300B from WE is vastly superior in regard to bass than almost all of the tubes on the above list. I will say that the 46 does almost everything well. It is just slightly less so than these tubes. I have an amp builder friend that prefers the 46 in my lampizator to any other tube he has ever listened to in the lampizator.

 

[Tuckia]

Per Christoph's request, below is a relevant portion of my post in a different thread yesterday.

As a contrarian, I'll offer the dissenting opinion on RK242 vs. RK PX25. I've been running the RK PX25 for almost two years, so I'm rather familiar with them and they are certainly run in. Probably 4000 plus hrs. of on time. When I acquired the RK242, I only put about 80 hrs. on them. They were not that different than the PX25 version. Same sense of scale and grandness. Dynamically I found them to be very similar. The key difference in my system was tonality. The PX25 has a lower center and the 242 more upper midrange and beyond - to an annoying level. The PX25 is simply a better fit tonally for my system. No, the preamp was not distorting or overloading. To be honest, my preamp has the same type of flavor choice in output tubes. I was running the Thomson 6080's during this compare. They are much stronger in the upper mid's as well. If I had been running the GEC 6080's (which I didn't have at the time) I MAY have reversed course. They are a bit more mid-rangy. Another member is enjoying the RK242's now.

This is my ranking of output tubes that I've tried so far.

1. RK PX25 - Goldilocks
2. Shuguang BT 300b - Not as grand overall, weaker bass, more dimensional mid's, more athletic than other 300b's. Cheap! I'm sure there are other 300b's that kill this one, but haven't tried them yet.
3. RK 242 - As above
4. RCA UX 112A (1928 or so) Pleasant, but to a fault
5. Psvane 101D - OK, but nothing special.
6. KR PX4 - back up level
7. Others - don't bother.

I've been running an RK 5u4g through all of this. Now it seems to be running out of gas. Has anyone else burned through an RK rectifier yet? This tube runs much, much hotter than the outputs. Now I alternate between KR 5u4g, GEC U52, and Japanese GEC (Marconi rebrand) U52, which sounds nothing like the original, but is still pretty good.

Is the EML 274B much better than the EML 5u4g mesh? I had this beauty to try on all my Lampi's, but it just couldn't sing. Never lost it's coarseness.

Others here are much more active in rolling than I. I'm sorting through what is hopefully the last of the equipment changes for awhile on the front end. Once I know the final sound palate, I'll be a little more engaged in optimizing tube sets.

Please advise with any thoughts...

 

[adamaley]

Now we are going to be discussing the finer points of 2010 or 2016 Bordeaux. So I have both tubes (I may have sold Dave his 275As, I don't recall). I think the 300Bs do midrange in a way that no tube has done before or since. I mean I love the 46 and the 01A tubes generally, but the real western 300B gets midrange so right that you just will not find anything better. Most of the music I listen to is heavy on the midrange, so I really love the 300B in this roll. The 300B doesn't lack in top end either. Where it may falter is bass. It is less pronounced than on some other tubes. It isn't bloated as some try to say (at least to me). It is all detail, but it is not as pronounced as some other tubes. The 275A is a compromise. You lose some of the midrange magic and sacrifice a bit of the top end, but some of the perceived lacking bass has returned. I say this as if this is bad. But you really only hear this if you compare the two. The fact is that the 300B from WE is vastly superior in regard to bass than almost all of the tubes on the above list. I will say that the 46 does almost everything well. It is just slightly less so than these tubes. I have an amp builder friend that prefers the 46 in my lampizator to any other tube he has ever listened to in the lampizator.

The bass from the 275A was no slouch at all. Actually, it's up there with the very best I've heard on my GG. Thanks for the breakdown

 

[Crashem]

Speaking of 46, anyone try Elrog’s new TM300B. Mayer claims he captured 46 sound in a 300b spec.

also elrog has 300b-mo version too, wondering if anyone tried that too.

The Trinity of ELROG 300B Tubes

Hi! In August I published a post about the 4th anniversary of Deutsche Elektronenröhren Manufaktur GmbH in which I showed the new molybde...

vinylsavor.blogspot.com

 

[Sfox7076]

Speaking of 46, anyone try Elrog’s new TM300B. Mayer claims he captured 46 sound in a 300b spec.

also elrog has 300b-mo version too, wondering if anyone tried that too.

The Trinity of ELROG 300B Tubes

Hi! In August I published a post about the 4th anniversary of Deutsche Elektronenröhren Manufaktur GmbH in which I showed the new molybde...

vinylsavor.blogspot.com

No. Tried to buy some. But you have to have bought one of his amps to get the TM300B. Not sure what I feel about voicing a 300B to sound like something else.

 

[Willgolf]

I need your help. Due to a stroke in May I am now functinally bllind. I am thinking about upgrading from a Lumin X-1 to the Pacific. Yes, a very big jump in price and I hope in sound quality. I can't read the 83 pages of notes on tubes rolling, so I am asking the following quesions:

What tubes come with the Pacific?

What would be the one reasonably priced set of tubes that you would recommend that are better than the stock tubes?

Can someone tell me why some audio components place the on / off switch in the rear? That just does not make sense to me as I will be placing the Pacific in a specific storage area and not on the floor in the middle of the room. Yes, I understand that I can get volume controls on the front for an expensive upgrade. Aries Cerat is the same.

Thanks for your help.

 

[marty]

I need your help. Due to a stroke in May I am now functinally bllind. I am thinking about upgrading from a Lumin X-1 to the Pacific. Yes, a very big jump in price and I hope in sound quality. I can't read the 83 pages of notes on tubes rolling, so I am asking the following quesions:

What tubes come with the Pacific?

What would be the one reasonably priced set of tubes that you would recommend that are better than the stock tubes?

Can someone tell me why some audio components place the on / off switch in the rear? That just does not make sense to me as I will be placing the Pacific in a specific storage area and not on the floor in the middle of the room. Yes, I understand that I can get volume controls on the front for an expensive upgrade. Aries Cerat is the same.

Thanks for your help.

Hi Willgolf,
As an ophthalmologist who has taken care of many patients blinded by glaucoma, it is my experience that less sighted individuals, even when poor sight is acquired later in life, can often have more acute hearing than sighted people. But that doesn't necessarily translate to an advantage or disadvantage in helping you render what sounds more realistic or satisfying musically when judging the sonic merits of a piece of audio gear or a particular tube. Unfortunately, like all of us, the options and preference you have for tube selection or even a particular component have only one requirement, which is namely to satisfy you musically. Nobody can tell you which component is best for that as you are the only jury that counts.

There are many Lampi users out there, and not surprising, there is a range of personal preferences for tube selection among users. I might be misrepresenting a rather broad consensus opinion, but I don't think many would disagree a good starting point would be RK KR PX25 or KR 242 for output tubes, and a RK KR 5U4G or a variant of a 274B for a rectifier.

I would also add that Lukasz thinks the life expectancy of these tube is quite long (i.e., several years), so there is little down side except perhaps a modest utility bill if you left the unit on full time, if getting to the rear switch is inconvenient.
Marty

 

[Tuckia]

Hi Willgolf,
As an ophthalmologist who has taken care of many patients blinded by glaucoma, it is my experience that less sighted individuals, even when poor sight is acquired later in life, can often have more acute hearing than sighted people. But that doesn't necessarily translate to an advantage or disadvantage in helping you render what sounds more realistic or satisfying musically when judging the sonic merits of a piece of audio gear or a particular tube. Unfortunately, like all of us, the options and preference you have for tube selection or even a particular component have only one requirement, which is namely to satisfy you musically. Nobody can tell you which component is best for that as you are the only jury that counts.

There are many Lampi users out there, and not surprising, there is a range of personal preferences for tube selection among users. I might be misrepresenting a rather broad consensus opinion, but I don't think many would disagree a good starting point would be RK KR PX25 or KR 242 for output tubes, and a RK KR 5U4G or a variant of a 274B for a rectifier.

I would also add that Lukasz thinks the life expectancy of these tube is quite long (i.e., several years), so there is little down side except perhaps a modest utility bill if you left the unit on full time, if getting to the rear switch is inconvenient.
Marty

Well stated Marty.
I took the upgrade path from Golden Gate to Pacific, so I just carried my same tubes over. If purchasing new without trade, I believe you can select which tubes for Lampizator to supply. They have a connection to KR with Frank’s best300b.com business, so this is the logical source. No sense starting with inferior tubes. I believe they give discounted pricing so it is best to specify preference on order.

My output tubes only run at 113 degrees Fahrenheit in the Pacific. This is quite cool, implying life close to 10 years. In comparison my output tubes in my amp (also KR PX25) run at 169 degrees Fahrenheit. These may go 2 to 3 years. My RK 5u4g runs at about 160 degrees in the Pacific. My U52 runs at 188 degrees. Point is, the rectifier in the Pacific, as well as the small driver tube, are run pretty hard. Maybe two years of life for a rectifier, depending on how many on-off cycles, and only one year for the driver (6n6p).

Plugging the Pacific into a switched outlet might be a solution. However, the clocks wouldn’t be powered up then.

if I had to leave the dac on, I’d hot swap the rectifier with a cheap solid state rectifier for the periods not listening. I have some these, but they don’t sound good at all. Just a stop gap.

Regarding the best output tube selection, what type of music do you prefer @Willgolf?

 

[Zero000]

The 46 needs a 5 to 4 pin adapter. Takes about 15 minutes to make.

46 looks like a 45 with two grids.

So how are you doing this? Buying some sort of UX4 extender and tying the grids together?

EDIT: apparently you tie grid 2 to the plate? The pin spacing looks completely incompatible with UX4, so I am confused.

Wanna make and sell me a pair pretty please?

 

[christoph]

I need your help. Due to a stroke in May I am now functinally bllind. I am thinking about upgrading from a Lumin X-1 to the Pacific. Yes, a very big jump in price and I hope in sound quality. I can't read the 83 pages of notes on tubes rolling, so I am asking the following quesions:

What tubes come with the Pacific?

What would be the one reasonably priced set of tubes that you would recommend that are better than the stock tubes?

Can someone tell me why some audio components place the on / off switch in the rear? That just does not make sense to me as I will be placing the Pacific in a specific storage area and not on the floor in the middle of the room. Yes, I understand that I can get volume controls on the front for an expensive upgrade. Aries Cerat is the same.

Thanks for your help.

Will, I'm very sorry to hear about your health issues.
You could get the Remote Volume Control to switch the Pacific on and off and also be very flexible gain wise to your preamp or you could even ditch the preamp altogether if the inbuilt preamp in the Pacific is up to your sonic expectations. I'm very glad I bought the VC version because I wanted the one without. But I would have had to wait quite a long time for a non remote version and therefore took the plunge on the remote one. Very happy I was kind of forced to do it.

But even if you would opt for the non remote version, you could switch the Pacific ON with the hard switch on the back and then switch into and from standby via the button in the middle of the front bottom. No need to reach around to the back switch.

 

[christoph]

if I had to leave the dac on, I’d hot swap the rectifier with a cheap solid state rectifier for the periods not listening. I have some these, but they don’t sound good at all. Just a stop gap.

This is exactly what I do.
SS recti for warming up/burning in or for background listening.
The rectifiers are driven full throttle while the output tubes are only gently petted and will last forever.

 

[Crashem]

I need your help. Due to a stroke in May I am now functinally bllind. I am thinking about upgrading from a Lumin X-1 to the Pacific. Yes, a very big jump in price and I hope in sound quality. I can't read the 83 pages of notes on tubes rolling, so I am asking the following quesions:

What tubes come with the Pacific?

What would be the one reasonably priced set of tubes that you would recommend that are better than the stock tubes?

Can someone tell me why some audio components place the on / off switch in the rear? That just does not make sense to me as I will be placing the Pacific in a specific storage area and not on the floor in the middle of the room. Yes, I understand that I can get volume controls on the front for an expensive upgrade. Aries Cerat is the same.

Thanks for your help.

What Christoph Said:

"But even if you would opt for the non remote version, you could switch the Pacific ON with the hard switch on the back and then switch into and from standby via the button in the middle of the front bottom. No need to reach around to the back switch."

I leave my Pacific on and turn in "on/off" with button in the middle front of Pacific.