I think it is slightly better than the poseidon providing you dont need volume control.
Lampizator Genya
- Thread starter rau
- Start date
I'm certain posters will disagree with me. I've been reading concerning the BEST phono pre-amp made is the Tron Nemesis with 10 reportedly sold in years. Here there is a larger supply in the final total, as the Genya is a one-time, limited-edition product, and there are no current plans to manufacture more once the available digital engines are used up. Between 40 and 50 will be made. Again, a very limited edition.
I don't want to own a one off product. I like knowing that it is either available for purchase in the future or as used, has available parts if necessary to repair.
I don't want to own a one off product. I like knowing that it is either available for purchase in the future or as used, has available parts if necessary to repair.
I had the same issue with my tube equipment and cabling for nearly 25 years. The engineer/designer continuously made changes, costing me as much as my Westminster Labs REIs and Quest 2 which will not NEED upgrading. I was his beta tester for cabling and it got out of control.
I am sorry to hear that the Horizon360 has already being contemplated as replaced by another expensive DAC (the Aphrodite?). Why, is there another DAC competing with it that Horizon360 sales could suffer? I like my Poseidon even with stock tubes as a DAC. I don't intend to replace it (which means a decade or more).
Absolutely(!) nothing gets replaced ! Aphrodite is an entirely different offering, with very different set of features, different skills, different price and different target. So nothing gets replaced.
Today's Youtube emphasizes trickle down to lesser cost DACs with the knowledge of the SOTA unit's technology. Great! My best friend cannot afford the less colored Poseidon/Horizon units but would like a lower cost unit.
I just contracted the manufacturing of Horizon1 engines - new production for Genya programme. So we gonna have them forever !
Then you need to update the Dac levels table and add Genya
Hi Lukasz love what you have been doing with Lampizator and a very happy Genya and H360 owner and very interested in Aphrodite. But I would be very careful over this new genya announcement. Probably breaches European law and we don’t really want to see the brand tarnished by it. Keep the focus on developing new and exciting product as you have been.
I just want to chime in and clarify that the Genya was never intended to be artificially “limited.” It wasn’t conceived as a 10-piece, ultra-rare Patek-style release, but rather a natural limitation that came from the scarcity of Horizon 1 engines. At first, the only way we could produce Genya was by recovering those engines through Horizon upgrades to 360 status.
As many of you will remember, the original Horizon itself was necessarily limited by how many DAC chips we were able to secure during a time when the entire industry was facing shortages—even the automotive sector was impacted, and there were also major supply disruptions from fires at key manufacturing facilities.
What Lukasz has now managed to do is secure a bunch of NOS Horizon 1 chips, which allows him to remanufacture the original digital engines and prolong the Genya project. Obviously, acquiring new chips and manufacturing engines rather than recycling may require an eventual price adjustment, but the good news is the very popular Genya can continue for now.
As many of you will remember, the original Horizon itself was necessarily limited by how many DAC chips we were able to secure during a time when the entire industry was facing shortages—even the automotive sector was impacted, and there were also major supply disruptions from fires at key manufacturing facilities.
What Lukasz has now managed to do is secure a bunch of NOS Horizon 1 chips, which allows him to remanufacture the original digital engines and prolong the Genya project. Obviously, acquiring new chips and manufacturing engines rather than recycling may require an eventual price adjustment, but the good news is the very popular Genya can continue for now.
Even as of today, these are screenshots from Lampizator's Genya page:
If it was 'never intended' to be artificially limited, then why is this language used? How is this NOT misleading?
In fact, I could challenge anyone to write language that could be any MORE specific that this is a limited edition model.
I've spoken to someone who is receiving a Genya just tomorrow. Does it seem fair that his, and everyone else's purchases, were driven by the scarcity that was set out by the manufacturer?
I don't think it's out of line for some people to now question will the Aphrodite really be limited to only 20 units?
It's pretty important for Lampizator to understand that driving purchase decisions in the five figures by telling us you have to move fast on this if you want one, because once they're gone, they're gone – and Fred, you're a lovely man and there is zero aggression in my typing voice intended right now – but that message was put out there by you and other dealers within the first few weeks of Genya being released.
Marketing language can have financial and legal consequences. It isn't consequential-less purple prose.
As a Lampizator customer of Atlantic and now Genya, I have been very disappointed by what's come out today. And I know at least 5 other long-term Lampi customers who feel the same.
I don't mean for you to be taking the brunt of this, Fred. I appreciate you trying to clarify things. I'm speaking generally here. But it's unacceptable and a real slap in the face for customers who put their trust in the brand.
I came from nothing. Literally went hungry a lot of days at school. Do you know how much money a Genya is to someone with my kind of background? I don't appreciate being taken advantage of the way that I have with Genya. And that's how I feel.
I'm going to leave it at that as far as saying my piece goes.
Walter, I understand why this feels frustrating and I don’t want to dismiss that. Let me give some perspective.
From my very first surprise announcement of Genya, the wording was clear:
Since then, demand has been stronger than expected, and Lukasz was able to track down a cache of NOS Horizon 1 chips, making it possible to keep the project alive. That doesn’t rewrite history—it just gives Genya an unexpected second life. For context, I sold five Horizon 360 upgrades in North America last month; should those boards be discarded, or put back into circulation as a DAC people clearly value?
As for Aphrodite, the website already notes:
From my very first surprise announcement of Genya, the wording was clear:
That reflected the facts at the time: there were no spare Horizon 1 engines on hand, and no plan to chase down discontinued chips. Genya existed only because Horizon owners upgrading to 360 freed up boards that could be recycled.
Since then, demand has been stronger than expected, and Lukasz was able to track down a cache of NOS Horizon 1 chips, making it possible to keep the project alive. That doesn’t rewrite history—it just gives Genya an unexpected second life. For context, I sold five Horizon 360 upgrades in North America last month; should those boards be discarded, or put back into circulation as a DAC people clearly value?
As for Aphrodite, the website already notes:
More details will be released soon, but the intention is at least one more batch of 20. Again, this isn’t artificial scarcity, but rather communicating production constraints as they evolve.
If that is a vital distinction then it should be/should have been on the product's webpage, not just a forum post. Not every Lampizator customer hangs out here. I only joined after I had made my purchase.
From Lukasz himself in that interview (4mins:30secs):
'This DAC cannot be made forever. This board cannot be repeated and the chip is not available. And I only have the boards that are taken from the Horizon.'
Is that somehow not explicit that this is a limited run unit? There's not even a hint that more might be available at a later date. It's once it's gone, it's gone.
If that wasn't the case, then Lampi have been reckless at best with how this unit has been represented in marketing terms.
I don't know if the company understands how much damage has actually been done today. I have at least four friends in audio chat groups who have told me they won't buy Lampi products again after this. And I totally understand why. I'm still on the fence, personally.
For the record, btw, I'm in my early forties and see myself as someone who would have gone right up the Lampizator chain. There are not that many of people like me around. ie people with the income to remain in this hobby at a high level for the next thirty years+. I have a lot of friends in music and they think I'm mad spending what I do in this hobby, but I love music deeply. I would have thought a brand like Lampi would realise that people like me feel slighted when products at this level are misrepresented, or scarcity is artificially driven.
I value relationships when it comes to business. And today I have not felt valued at all.
I'm happy to read any responses, but I'll leave my contributions at that. I don't want to drive this into the ground.
I hope Lampi can do better in future. There let's leave things from my side on a positive side.
This is the problem really.
Attachments
The 4493 chips arnt that hard to find - lots in china and i think it will be hard to fake this chip - one eg here
more
If we can still get old parts 30-40 yrs old ; this chip or relative lack of is probably a head scratcher
the SEQ is a slightly better spec than the EX used as well - same pinout though so swappable in the production line
not sure if good info but i am also hearing dissent amongst my friends on how this is damaging the brand too .
I personally cannot see anything wrong with Genya getting a new lease of life.
In the music gear world (where I come from...) this happens all the time and if anything it is something to be welcomed and most certainly not something to be frowned upon.
Many guitar products for example (tube amps, pedals, etc.), especially when using rare NOS parts, are offered in limited runs because the manufacturers have secured a certain number of parts just for the run and once they are gone, they are gone.
However, if the manufacturer happens to secure another batch of parts out of a warehouse in a far off land, why not offer another run? (in fact there are even professionals -NOS parts scouts- that do exactly that, searching for rare and obscure parts that is)
Where's the harm in that?
It does not de-value the product in any way or anything.
On the contrary, it clearly shows that both the Horizon 1 engine and the Genya circuit have lasting value and are not just a passing fancy, like some other DAC propositions out there.
To me, the Genya is still an extremely valid proposition, as is the Horizon, as is the Golden Gate or the Atlantic for that matter, and I for one would love to know that there is an opportunity in place for more people to to be able to acquire one.
At the very least, this thread would have benefited from that...
In the music gear world (where I come from...) this happens all the time and if anything it is something to be welcomed and most certainly not something to be frowned upon.
Many guitar products for example (tube amps, pedals, etc.), especially when using rare NOS parts, are offered in limited runs because the manufacturers have secured a certain number of parts just for the run and once they are gone, they are gone.
However, if the manufacturer happens to secure another batch of parts out of a warehouse in a far off land, why not offer another run? (in fact there are even professionals -NOS parts scouts- that do exactly that, searching for rare and obscure parts that is)
Where's the harm in that?
It does not de-value the product in any way or anything.
On the contrary, it clearly shows that both the Horizon 1 engine and the Genya circuit have lasting value and are not just a passing fancy, like some other DAC propositions out there.
To me, the Genya is still an extremely valid proposition, as is the Horizon, as is the Golden Gate or the Atlantic for that matter, and I for one would love to know that there is an opportunity in place for more people to to be able to acquire one.
At the very least, this thread would have benefited from that...
Agree nothing wrong with giving Genya a new lease of life. Simply better doing it lawfully, avoiding misrepresentation and legal risk. Lampizator is creating some wonderful products and would be great to make sure the marketing is at the same high standard. Not difficult to do.I personally cannot see anything wrong with Genya getting a new lease of life.
In the music gear world (where I come from...) this happens all the time and if anything it is something to be welcomed and most certainly not something to be frowned upon.
Many guitar products for example (tube amps, pedals, etc.), especially when using rare NOS parts, are offered in limited runs because the manufacturers have secured a certain number of parts just for the run and once they are gone, they are gone.
However, if the manufacturer happens to secure another batch of parts out of a warehouse in a far off land, why not offer another run? (in fact there are even professionals -NOS parts scouts- that do exactly that, searching for rare and obscure parts that is)
Where's the harm in that?
It does not de-value the product in any way or anything.
On the contrary, it clearly shows that both the Horizon 1 engine and the Genya circuit have lasting value and are not just a passing fancy, like some other DAC propositions out there.
To me, the Genya is still an extremely valid proposition, as is the Horizon, as is the Golden Gate or the Atlantic for that matter, and I for one would love to know that there is an opportunity in place for more people to to be able to acquire one.
At the very least, this thread would have benefited from that...
There's no point in me just repeating my previous points. You either get it or you don't.I personally cannot see anything wrong with Genya getting a new lease of life.
In the music gear world (where I come from...) this happens all the time and if anything it is something to be welcomed and most certainly not something to be frowned upon.
Many guitar products for example (tube amps, pedals, etc.), especially when using rare NOS parts, are offered in limited runs because the manufacturers have secured a certain number of parts just for the run and once they are gone, they are gone.
However, if the manufacturer happens to secure another batch of parts out of a warehouse in a far off land, why not offer another run? (in fact there are even professionals -NOS parts scouts- that do exactly that, searching for rare and obscure parts that is)
Where's the harm in that?
It does not de-value the product in any way or anything.
On the contrary, it clearly shows that both the Horizon 1 engine and the Genya circuit have lasting value and are not just a passing fancy, like some other DAC propositions out there.
To me, the Genya is still an extremely valid proposition, as is the Horizon, as is the Golden Gate or the Atlantic for that matter, and I for one would love to know that there is an opportunity in place for more people to to be able to acquire one.
At the very least, this thread would have benefited from that...
But nothing I've criticised has anything to do with frowning on Genya becoming available on a wider basis.
Hi
Is your 5852 still working with no issues? I built a lot of preamps with the 6X5 and that was always the best of them except for the slow warmup. The problem though is that the 5852 has a 1.2 A filament draw vs. 0.6 A for the standard 6X5. Did Lampizator tell you the transformer can handle it? If it can handle the load, that is fine, but if it is say, a 1A rated winding, you will eventually kill the transformer with the Bendix tube. It would be good to know......
You missed the point.I personally cannot see anything wrong with Genya getting a new lease of life.
In the music gear world (where I come from...) this happens all the time and if anything it is something to be welcomed and most certainly not something to be frowned upon.
Many guitar products for example (tube amps, pedals, etc.), especially when using rare NOS parts, are offered in limited runs because the manufacturers have secured a certain number of parts just for the run and once they are gone, they are gone.
However, if the manufacturer happens to secure another batch of parts out of a warehouse in a far off land, why not offer another run? (in fact there are even professionals -NOS parts scouts- that do exactly that, searching for rare and obscure parts that is)
Where's the harm in that?
It does not de-value the product in any way or anything.
On the contrary, it clearly shows that both the Horizon 1 engine and the Genya circuit have lasting value and are not just a passing fancy, like some other DAC propositions out there.
To me, the Genya is still an extremely valid proposition, as is the Horizon, as is the Golden Gate or the Atlantic for that matter, and I for one would love to know that there is an opportunity in place for more people to to be able to acquire one.
At the very least, this thread would have benefited from that...
The problem is not in the product, the problem is in the communication from their marketing team towards the customers.
Initially offering a limited production unit, and then later switching around and saying it is not, is eyebrow raising at the least. Making them think that if they "don't get in on those 50 pieces, bad luck. No more opportunity to buy!" This creates a false sense of FOMO and can be classified as manipulating your buyers, which is illegal in the European union and they can be sued and will lose if people do.
If they initially changed their text a little bit that they have 50 units ready to go and will try to continue to make more if it's a success and being more transparent about their communication (and not in the pages of some random audio forum but on their official site!), I think people wouldn't take an issue to that at all. However now some people feel scammed, because they thought they will get a special limited edition unit piece, which, it will not be after all.
I apologise for saying this on a "random audio forum" (perhaps unlike others who seem to know it all, I enjoy my membership here because I get to learn about all the new products), but I simply cannot bring my self to see this as anything more than what it is, a.k.a. a new lease of life for a product. No conspiracy, no drama...
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