Lampizator announcement: launch of our all new TOTL HORIZON DAC

[Steve Williams]

Will

im told your Horizon arrives this month

 

[Willgolf]

Will

im told your Horizon arrives this month

Thanks, Steve, I am waiting on Rob to provide me a confirmation. Originally told between June and August.

 

[Sampajanna]

Blissful evening... View attachment 97686 View attachment 97687

What are your findings?

 

[Alrainbow]

I did not know the H dac was also a hot plate to cook on as well

 

[ctydwn]

What are your findings?

Continuing comparisons w 6l6s (mixed matched quad as in the previous pic w cascading heights, visually spectacular), mullard xf2s (single and double halo), kt 170 and tesla 34s and a variety of dual triodes including the red base rcas, vt-231 black glass, cv-181, the….cfs 5687s. Tak 274b at the helm. Amazing how the baseline is so high. Need some more time to ensure tubes on equal footing and fair dedicated listening session to fully understand their characteristics.

Separately, since going direct to my amps, I just love the Horizon (like the Pacific) remote. Its weight, responsiveness and the gorgeous nixie display and clicking. Small detail but very much appreciate.

I do not miss my linestage one single bit. Excited to see how the Horizon rides the Audionet Heisenbergs en route.

 

[Willgolf]

@ctydwn. I have been running my Pacific without a Pre-amp and love the sound. I will never buy another Pre-Amp again as I am 100% digital. I am sure the Horizon is even better.

 

[heihei]

Continuing comparisons w 6l6s (mixed matched quad as in the previous pic w cascading heights, visually spectacular), mullard xf2s (single and double halo), kt 170 and tesla 34s and a variety of dual triodes including the red base rcas, vt-231 black glass, cv-181, the….cfs 5687s. Tak 274b at the helm. Amazing how the baseline is so high. Need some more time to ensure tubes on equal footing and fair dedicated listening session to fully understand their characteristics.

Separately, since going direct to my amps, I just love the Horizon (like the Pacific) remote. Its weight, responsiveness and the gorgeous nixie display and clicking. Small detail but very much appreciate.

I do not miss my linestage one single bit. Excited to see how the Horizon rides the Audionet Heisenbergs en route.

Listening to Horizon and Heisenbergs right now - just incredible. You're in for a treat!

 

[Moladiego]

@Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus Questions regarding Horizon: (1) why does the DAC not include a phase switch? Some recordings were recorded out of phase, so a phase switch would be very helpful to correct the phase errors of such recordings. (2) I was told that Horizon uses a ?? chip, which means that DSD, but not PCM, format is native to the chip. Does Horizon convert PCM in real time as PCM files are played? If so, should we convert all our PCM files to DSD format beforehand to avoid real time conversion (which may introduce extra jitter no matter how small)? My own experience with R2R DACs (for which chips PCM files are native, but not DSD) is that the DSD files do not sound good when converted in real time via FPGA (therefore, I always converted DSD files to WAV beforehand). Thanks.

 

[Steve Williams]

@Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus Questions regarding Horizon: (1) why does the DAC not include a phase switch? Some recordings were recorded out of phase, so a phase switch would be very helpful to correct the phase errors of such recordings. (2) I was told that Horizon uses a ?? chip, which means that DSD, but not PCM, format is native to the chip. Does Horizon convert PCM in real time as PCM files are played? If so, should we convert all our PCM files to DSD format beforehand to avoid real time conversion (which may introduce extra jitter no matter how small)? My own experience with R2R DACs (for which chips PCM files are native, but not DSD) is that the DSD files do not sound good when converted in real time via FPGA (therefore, I always converted DSD files to WAV beforehand). Thanks.

welcome to WBF

I can't speak for Lujasz but I must infer that you haven't heard the Horizon yet.

 

[Sampajanna]

Thanks. Please let us know what you continue to find with regards to tubes! I am very interested!!

I also do not use preamp and have NO desire to. The Horizon is epic direct to amps.

 

[kernelbob]

Questions regarding Horizon: (1) why does the DAC not include a phase switch? Some recordings were recorded out of phase, so a phase switch would be very helpful to correct the phase errors of such recordings.

Regarding your point #1, I also use a preamp (actually a passive controller) that includes the capability to switch absolute phase using the remote. On first hearing, the difference between correct and inverted absolute phase is subtle. However on extended listening, your ear learns to spot the difference. Some of the attributes of correct absolute phase, i.e. as one would hear if present at the live performance, are: 1) bass reaches deeper into the lower frequencies; 2) there is better cohesion of upper of upper and lower frequency components of instruments and voices.

For the same musical passage reproduced with incorrect absolute phase, 1) bass is weaker, increasingly so with lower frequencies; 2) instruments' waveform frequencies are less integrated with the upper midrange to treble components of an instrument heard more as separate entities, not integrated with their bass components. This is especially problematic with the piano with its abundance of harmonics.

The sound we hear consists of a waveforms alternating compression and rarefaction. Our ear/brain is less sensitive to the compression component than to rarefaction. This difference becomes more prominent as frequency decreases. All sounds produced by instruments or voice always include components from a wide range of frequencies. If you listen to the sound with inverted phase, the compression and rarefaction components are reversed, but the amplitude of them, as perceived by the ear/brain, will be incorrect with now-compression waveforms having rarefaction amplitude and vice versa. These reversed amplitudes (as perceived by the ear/brain) in the inverted setting are not correctly integrated with the midrange and treble components of that same waveform. The result to the listener is that midrange/treble portion has a detached quality.

To roll up the result of correct versus inverted absolute phase, correct phase as was propagated at the live performance has a deeper foundation and is better focused with correctly integrated frequency components as perceived by the listener. The subtleties of the recording venue's acoustic space is also better resolved.

This is the description of my experience with my my system. One thing, if you have to get up from you listening chair to flip a switch on your preamp, the absolute phase difference will be difficult to hear, if at all. The answer is to have that absolute phase switch available on your remote. Note, this refers to acoustic phase, not electric power phase.

The improvement in the bass foundation brought by the Horizon only makes the impact of absolute phase more pronounced than with my Pacific.

Apologies for the length of this post.

 

[Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus]

@Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus Questions regarding Horizon: (1) why does the DAC not include a phase switch? Some recordings were recorded out of phase, so a phase switch would be very helpful to correct the phase errors of such recordings. (2) I was told that Horizon uses a ?? chip, which means that DSD, but not PCM, format is native to the chip. Does Horizon convert PCM in real time as PCM files are played? If so, should we convert all our PCM files to DSD format beforehand to avoid real time conversion (which may introduce extra jitter no matter how small)? My own experience with R2R DACs (for which chips PCM files are native, but not DSD) is that the DSD files do not sound good when converted in real time via FPGA (therefore, I always converted DSD files to WAV beforehand). Thanks.

Hello. The phase switch is in my opinion unnecessary, but thats me. I know that some people like it. It may be doable in the future. I cant promise anything yet because my number one concern is not to add complications which reduce sq.
Concerning dsd vs pcm: we reboot the dac every time the dsd or pcm is selected and we load different dedicated firmware so each time the dac is optimal. The reboot is so fast it is not audible.

 

[Steve Williams]

Apologies for the length of this post.

I thought it was a terrific post TBH

 

[Sampajanna]

Is there a setting for DSD vs PCM? Or is the switch auto?

 

[Moladiego]

Regarding your point #1, I also use a preamp (actually a passive controller) that includes the capability to switch absolute phase using the remote. On first hearing, the difference between correct and inverted absolute phase sounds subtle. However on extended listening, your ear learns to spot the difference in the sound. Some of the attributes of correct absolute phase (i.e. as one would hear if present at the live performance) are: 1) bass that reaches deeper into the lower frequencies; 2) better cohesion of upper of lower and lower frequency components of instruments and voices.

For the same musical passage reproduced with inverted absolute phase, 1) bass is weaker, incresingly with lower frequencies; 2) instruments' waveform frequencies are less integrated with the upper midrange to treble components of an instrument heard more as separate entities, not integrated with their bass components. This is especially problematic with the piano.

The sound we hear consists of a waveforms alternating compression and rarefaction. Our ear/brain is less sensitive to the compression component than to rarefaction. This difference becomes more prominent as frequency decreases. All sounds produced by instruments or voice always include components from a wide range of frequencies. If you listen to the sound with inverted phase, the compression and rarefaction components are reversed, but the amplitude of them, as perceived by the ear/brain, will be incorrect with now-compression waveforms having rarefaction amplitude and vice versa. These reversed amplitudes (as perceived by the ear/brain) in the inverted setting are not correctly integrated with the midrange and treble components of that same waveform. The result to the listener is that midrange/treble of that instrument's waveform has a detached quality.

To roll up the result of correct versus inverted absolute phase, correct phase as was propagated at the live performance has a deeper foundation and is better focused with correctly integrated frequency components as perceived by the listener. The subtle recording venue's acoustic space is also better resolved.

This is the best description of my experience with my my system. One thing, if you have to get up from you listening chair to flip a switch on you preamp, the absolute phase difference will be difficult to hear, if at all. The answer is to have that absolute phase switch available on you remote.

The improvement in the bass foundation brought by the Horizon only makes the impact of absolute phase more pronounce than with my Pacific.

Apologies for the length of this post.

This is helpful. @Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus - hope you install a phase switch for my Horizon (ordered) without compromising SQ. The power cables I use (as well as all other cables) are directional - see Power Cables & Strips (omegamikro.com) - for each component I have, I tried both versions ("red" and "blue") of the same grade power cable (30W, 100W and 900W, the less wattage the better if a component's average power consumption falls into each grade) to determine the direction of the absolute phase of that component (the red and blue versons of the same grade power cable are exactly the same except the phase direction). The difference between the "red" and "the" blue version is very significant, even striking, not subtle at all. For instance, the Pacific DAC is clearly a "blue" (the DAC sounds awful when the "red" power cable is chosen); while the Taiko Extreme is a "red" (the difference is less striking but over a while there is no mistake about it).

 

[Moladiego]

Hello. The phase switch is in my opinion unnecessary, but thats me. I know that some people like it. It may be doable in the future. I cant promise anything yet because my number one concern is not to add complications which reduce sq.
Concerning dsd vs pcm: we reboot the dac every time the dsd or pcm is selected and we load different dedicated firmware so each time the dac is optimal. The reboot is so fast it is not audible.

@Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus To your credit, your DAC chip management is done so well that even the non-native PCM files sound wonderful processed by a Delta Sigma chip (based on my Pacific experience); I am not hearing clear DSD SQ superiority (the same thing cannot be said of my ladder DACS, which either cannot play DSD files or the SQ of DSD files converted by FPGA is obviously subpar compared to WAV file processing). I ordered a Horizon - it would be great if you could install a phase switch for it without compromising SQ. I recommend you try a power cable which has 2 versions to complement the phase construction of a given component (often the wire winding of transformers determine the phase of a component). The power cables I use (as well as all other cables) are directional - see Power Cables & Strips (omegamikro.com) - for each component I have, I tried both versions ("red" and "blue") of the same grade power cable (30W, 100W and 900W, the less wattage the better if a component's average power consumption falls into each grade) to determine the direction of the absolute phase of that component (the red and blue versions of the same grade power cable are exactly the same except the phase direction). The difference between the "red" and "the" blue version is very significant, even striking, not subtle at all. For instance, the Pacific DAC is clearly "blue" (the DAC sounds awful when the "red" power cable is chosen); while the Taiko Extreme is "red" (the difference is less striking but over a while there is no mistake about it).

 

[christoph]

The difference between the "red" and "the" blue version is very significant, even striking, not subtle at all. For instance, the Pacific DAC is clearly "blue" (the DAC sounds awful when the "red" power cable is chosen); while the Taiko Extreme is "red" (the difference is less striking but over a while there is no mistake about it).

Happy are those who can use Schuko (European/German) plugs

You can simply turn them around (two prongs) for the often times easily audible correct (electrical) phase

But in your case the red and blue power cables for the specific pieces of gear is very clever.

I measure each new piece of gear I get into my house and mark the correct electrical phase on the power inlet

 

[Charlie B.]

(OT) Just found out that of September 1st there is a new Lampizator digital board out named "Engine Eleven."

"ENGINE ELEVEN is retrofit- compatible with all our older DACs as a complete installation package.
Due to time and labor constraints: we will accept requests for upgrades only for the following models: Big7, Golden Gate 1 & 2, the queue will be without time guarantee (meaning long)
Pacific DAC is not subject to upgrades as the sound quality would be roughly the same.
Baltic and Atlantic are too small chassis for retrofit upgrade, only new builds will have the ELEVEN from the beginning." (https://www.lampizatorpoland.com/kopia-technology-dac)

 

[Bbock]

(OT) Just found out that of September 1st there is a new Lampizator digital board out named "Engine Eleven."

"ENGINE ELEVEN is retrofit- compatible with all our older DACs as a complete installation package.
Due to time and labor constraints: we will accept requests for upgrades only for the following models: Big7, Golden Gate 1 & 2, the queue will be without time guarantee (meaning long)
Pacific DAC is not subject to upgrades as the sound quality would be roughly the same.
Baltic and Atlantic are too small chassis for retrofit upgrade, only new builds will have the ELEVEN from the beginning." (https://www.lampizatorpoland.com/kopia-technology-dac

 

[Bbock]

Looks like @highstream and I snuck in and got our TRP’s updated to the engine 11 mods before the restrictions. Lucky timing. Running it in now.