Lamm L2 Reference vs LL2.1

[rich121]

Curious what the opinion between the Lamm L2 Reference preamp and the LL2.1 Deluxe preamp is, strengths, weaknesses which is all around better preamp?

 

[JackD201]

This would depend on the amplifiers you intend to use them with Rich.

The L2 Reference output is about half of that of the LL2.1. As such the L2 Reference is best with amplifiers with an input sensitivity of around 1v. This means you will be able to drive your amps to peak power which means you get all the headroom your amp is designed to provide. The LL2.1 can drive practically any amplifier.

Given appropriate amplifiers I find the L2 Reference the better sounding preamp simply being more quiet and more refined. The plus side of the LL2.1 on the other hand is that it lends well to tube rolling if for some reason one feels the need to tailor his sound. I've yet to hear it sound as good as the L2 though.

I hope this helps.

 

[jeff1225]

I would be very wary of buying a Lamm product until it is confirmed that they are back up and running. There are no authorized repair centers and the schematics have not been published.

 

[rich121]

This would depend on the amplifiers you intend to use them with Rich.

The L2 Reference output is about half of that of the LL2.1. As such the L2 Reference is best with amplifiers with an input sensitivity of around 1v. This means you will be able to drive your amps to peak power which means you get all the headroom your amp is designed to provide. The LL2.1 can drive practically any amplifier.

Given appropriate amplifiers I find the L2 Reference the better sounding preamp simply being more quiet and more refined. The plus side of the LL2.1 on the other hand is that it lends well to tube rolling if for some reason one feels the need to tailor his sound. I've yet to hear it sound as good as the L2 though.

I hope this helps.

Jack,
Thank you for your reply, I really appreciate it.

This gets me to thinking now about my LL2.1 and the amp I'm presently using, which is a pair of the KT150 version Quicksilver V4 mono.
The V4s have an Output rating of 170 watts (depending on tubes used), Gain of 27db using 8 ohm tap and 24 db using 4 ohm tap with Input Sensitivity of 1.5V.

Spec sheet for the Quicksilver V4: http://quicksilveraudio.com/products/v4/

What just got me a little concerned after reading your post, I just looked at the specs again for the LL2.1 and I guess I never noticed before that the rated Output Voltage is only 1V, (but does have 18db of Gain) which I always thought you needed to match closely, the preamps output voltage with the amps Input Sensitivity, which is 1.5V for the V4 amp. I do not play anything loud.. yet ... so I would not know if I am losing dynamics or have other performance issues?
Or... am I just confused.

Lamm LL2.1 Spec sheet: https://www.lammindustries.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/ll21-specs.pdf

I have been considering purchasing a pair of Pure Audio Project 'Quintet 15' speakers, which have a sensitivity of 96db and 8 ohm impedance.
If not these, then something similar in sensitivity.

Link to speakers webpage: https://www.pureaudioproject.com/quintet15-wall-of-sound-open-baffle-speakers-for-large-rooms/

Planning to bi-amp these, using their PAP-C1 active analog crossover, designed for these speakers by Nelson Pass and made by FirstWatt.

Link to PAP-C1 info: https://www.pureaudioproject.com/pap-c1-custom-active-analog-crossover-open-baffle/

Plan on purchasing pair of Quicksilver KT Mono tube amps to power the tweeter/mids. The KT Mono amp has a rated Output of 80 watts (depending on tubes used) and has an Input Sensitivity of 1.2V.
I would use a solid state amp to power the 15" drivers.

Link to Quicksilver KT Mono : http://quicksilveraudio.com/products/kt-mono-amplifier/

A coincidence, as my Wife and Daughter will be leaving for the Philippines on February 15 for a few weeks to visit with Family in Pangasinan
.

 

[JackD201]

Hi Rich

If you are using an active crossover that should pick up the slack. Regardless of which of the 2 Pres you choose. The LL2.1 really has more robust current drive than the hybrid L2. Honestly by listening to them I forgot that the LL has the same output voltage. It just sounds more beefy. If you aren’t lacking anything it could also be the robustness of your amps. It looks like you’re heading for a good time!

Next time come with them Rich. WBF Philippines love taking care of our overseas buddies!

 

[rich121]

Hi Rich

If you are using an active crossover that should pick up the slack. Regardless of which of the 2 Pres you choose. The LL2.1 really has more robust current drive than the hybrid L2. Honestly by listening to them I forgot that the LL has the same output voltage. It just sounds more beefy. If you aren’t lacking anything it could also be the robustness of your amps. It looks like you’re heading for a good time!

Next time come with them Rich. WBF Philippines love taking care of our overseas buddies!

Thank you Jack, next time I will get in contact with you before coming there

I believe that the L2 Reference has an Output voltage of .75V, and not sure if that is with the balanced outputs or if you would still gain +6dB using the balanced outputs?
This makes sense because it also has just under 15dB of Gain, compared to just under 18dB with the 1V Output of the LL2.1.

 

[JackD201]

I'm a bit rusty and might try to ask Elina. I'm sure it is not a differential topology and the XLRs are I think balanced but done so with transformers. Likely not going to get the +6?

 

[kevinkwann]

The input impedance of the V4 is 100k ohms. 1.5v is required for full output. When John Atkinson measured the LL2 for Stereophile he said, "...the LL2 can swing more than 60V into 100k ohms before clipping!" So you have nothing to worry about.