Lamm Announces New ML2.2 Amp For CES

[LL21]

Exactly...i think there are excellent components, and there are uniquely GREAT matches. I understand Lamm/Wilson are the latter...particularly the higher-sensitivity X1/X2s.

 

[Steve Williams]

it will be a very different sound than what you have now from your large SS amps

 

[LL21]

have you compared 2.2 vs 2.1?

 

[Steve Williams]

have you compared 2.2 vs 2.1?

I haven't Lloyd however according to Vlad, the ML 2.2 topology brings it closer to that of the ML3

 

[LL21]

yes, i have read that...was just curious to find out how true that actually was based on people's experience. meanwhile will continue to weigh up my options. thanks!

 

[Steve Williams]

Lloyd, one other point to be made

SET's are a whole different animal. The bottom end is certainly there in a very refined fashion however to get that bass slam with which we are all familiar you should consider subs ( I think you have Velodynes)

As Jack also said the choice of a proper 12AX7 tube is paramount. Now that doesn't mean to say that the tubes Vladimir chooses with his components are inferior but bear in mind that IMO the most important tube is the 12AX7 as that is the first tube to receive the signal. I use NOS Tele's which some call the holy grail of 12ax7's, specifically the ECC803S

 

[LL21]

Thanks, Steve. As we all know, much of deep house music actually resides in the mid bass...the punch of 60hz combined with the grunt all the way down at 20hz. How does do the Lamm SETs handle these types of signals a club-levels? While i do not do this often, i have a fairly large room (30x20) and i will put the volume up for a few tracks on a Saturday nite before turning it down to loud but not crazy levels. With a Gryphon antileon (which peaks out at 4000watts/channnel into a 0.5ohm load), it is frighteningly effortless.

 

[Steve Williams]

well as I said it is a very different sound and I am betting you will be smitten

 

[LL21]

i am sure you are right. i really wish i could hear them...the closest i've heard is a mid-powered CJ tube...and that ain't close. i am trying to assess if the Lamms will have enough sheer power. i know bass will be better quality, better defined, more natural...stunning in that regard...but i know myself...sheer raw terrifying power that is utterly controlled is a wonderful thing for a bass freak...because it allows me to LOWER the volume and still be satisfied...coming from a family of doctors including an otolaryngologist...i know that has to be a good thing.

 

[Steve Williams]

well you're either going to have to supplement that bottom end with some subs or (grimace) stick with SS

 

[LL21]

Relative to my X1s, i am not comfortable running my Velodyne any higher than 32hz (with a 48db slope to really shut it off above that)) because of the quality of X1 delineation in the bass. On a lot of my music, if you mute my X1s...it is incredible how much wallop is constantly being driven thru the subs. And yet i find the 32h-60hz frequency range still requires a smooth, steady, limitless slam i have found addictive in the Gryphon Antileon.

There are trade-offs in all things, and i acknowledge i may find the QUALITY of the bass (and of course, mids, treble, etc, musicality, sheer enjoyment) so great with the Lamm ML2s i might just be happy without the bass. i just know if there is not a solid amount of sheer slam, i am going to end up 'itching' to find something that brings it back.

right now, i have a loaner Goldmund (a tiny one in fairness)...and it's wimpy in comparison.

 

[JackD201]

It looks like you're choices can be narrowed down to either the ML2.2 SET or the M2.2 Hybrid. The lowest and highest powered Lamms also the most (not counting the ML3) expensive and the least. If you think about it for the price of an 833 v1.3, you could actually get both and have some serious coin to spare. Hahahaha. I wish I could say the Hybrids have all the SET's magic. They don't but for me they've got a taste of the liquidity and speed of resolution. I also wish I could say the SET's have the grunt of the Hybrids again. They don't. They do have the Hybrid's tunefulness if not the slam, actually even more so. Sadly only a Lamm can do the Lamm SET sound. I've listened to a lot of SETs many very good, many actually more expensive, but none has their performance as balanced from extreme to extreme. Usually they excel at certain bands and suffer in others.

I also listen to a lot of House but usually more Progressive than Deep. I also like Trip Hop and Progressive Trance. Nothing over 135 bpm for me. I've been tripping on AnjunaDeep offerings lately.

 

[LL21]

Thanks, Jack...that is really helpful. Based on feedback, i think i will likely go ML2.2 or stick with Gryphon. M2.2 will not be a 'free swap', and given comments from Jeff Fritz and others about Antileon v 1.2Reference, i think that could be a costly move that is more lateral. Have you ever heard the Wavac 833 1.3? One AGoner did recommend them to me. They are much more available on s/hand market.

 

[LL21]

Here's a question...assuming i am playing deep house, synthesized music [at 95dbs...so well within the 18 watt limitation of the Lamm SET given my 95db efficiency and 7ohm avg impedance)....do you think the 60hz-20hz bass is going to be as powerful, (visceral impact and snap, as well as deep/powerful) with a Lamm SET (2/2.1/2.2) as with a Class A SS monster (Gryphon, Krell, etc)...particularly including absolute wallop and dynamic swings? I am prepared to accept for the moment that the Lamm bass may be more articulate within its range, and thus more interesting/musical. I am focused on power, slam, attack.

(Or does the SET only falter once we try to push BOTH bass AND volume...ie, 105-110db in a larger room.) Lets face it 110db is like running a lawn mower in your living room which is just plain dangerous for hearing, but i am trying to assess capabilities since at the moment i have not yet found a way to audition. Thanks for your advice!

 

[JackD201]

I think Stevie can answer that one MUCH better than I can. My guess however would be no they wouldn't.

My brother has got an 833 on the way. I delivered his amp stands for them already. I'll let you know what I hear.

I got to thinking about you and the hybrids lloyd. You like your tubes and since you have the Zanden, you probably have some 6922/6dj8s to play around with. The hex screws are english so you shouldn't have any problems playing around with them at all. Can't do that with pure SS. Hehehehehe.

 

[LL21]

Great! When does he get them? i am very interested to learn how they sound...what is the rest of his system?

 

[JackD201]

Great! When does he get them? i am very interested to learn how they sound...what is the rest of his system?

Supposed to have come in by now but there's been some delay details of which I don't know for certain

click here for his system minus an arm and a few new goodies. He's not replacing the 450s. The 833s are to satisfy his SET itch.

 

[LL21]

Whoa...you both have serious systems!!!!! I am very interested to hear about how the 833s sound. Thanks! And if he ever decides to sell anything...let me know!

 

[Steve Williams]

I think Stevie can answer that one MUCH better than I can. My guess however would be no they wouldn't

I agree completely and did post that here yesterday

I am focused on power, slam, attack.

If so give up on tubes unless you have a sub. I also said this yesterday

Here is Marc Mickelson's review of the ML 2.1

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/lamm_ml21_followup.htm


Peter Breuninger who reviewed the ML3's for TAS I thought was also doing a review on the ML 2.2

and here is review of the original ML2

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/rise39.htm

 

[Steve Williams]

and here is Peter's review of the ML3/LL1 combo


http://lammindustries.com/reviews/ML3 LL1 review TAS dec 2010.pdf