KirmussAudio Four record ultrasonic RCM

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 4, 2014
1,689
1,180
230
the Upper Midwest
#21
Hi Tima,

Please can you send me a link to any off the shelf products for rotating LPs of different sizes in ones chosen ultrasonic vat. I didn’t see one yet - just ones that rotate 12” discs.

Thx
The Klaudio unit has an optional 10-inch and 7-inch adapter as does the Audio Desk - not sure if the latter is actually from AudioDesk or UltraSystems (US distributor.) From up thread it looks like you have an AudioDesk so that might work for you. Fwiw, I have no direct experience with non-12" and AudioDesk.

You could look here:
http://www.ultrasystem.com/usfeaturedprodsAudioDeskVinylClnr.html#ARings

If you have non-12" records that will fit on a standard spindle, I'll speculate that other vertical USC machines may be able to clean them. It would depend on the depth to which the record fit into the USC tank, that is, will the runout to lead-in area be covered by solution. If fitment is okay you could be cleaning 6-7 records at a time. I'd suggest sending an e-mail to vendors of rotisseries that fit onto a USC tank, such as Franc Kuzma or the CleanerVinyl clamp-on type devices.

A quick look on Amazon revealed this device which claims support for non-12": https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Ultr...648&sr=1-5&keywords=record+cleaner+Ultrasonic

I suspect you could find similar with your own searches. Personally I pay no attention to non-12" but there may be a reasonable demand for cleaners of them.

Do you have a big collection of non-12"?
 

Audiophile Bill

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2015
2,733
1,071
210
UK
#22
The Klaudio unit has an optional 10-inch and 7-inch adapter as does the Audio Desk - not sure if the latter is actually from AudioDesk or UltraSystems (US distributor.) From up thread it looks like you have an AudioDesk so that might work for you. Fwiw, I have no direct experience with non-12" and AudioDesk.

You could look here:
http://www.ultrasystem.com/usfeaturedprodsAudioDeskVinylClnr.html#ARings

If you have non-12" records that will fit on a standard spindle, I'll speculate that other vertical USC machines may be able to clean them. It would depend on the depth to which the record fit into the USC tank, that is, will the runout to lead-in area be covered by solution. If fitment is okay you could be cleaning 6-7 records at a time. I'd suggest sending an e-mail to vendors of rotisseries that fit onto a USC tank, such as Franc Kuzma or the CleanerVinyl clamp-on type devices.

A quick look on Amazon revealed this device which claims support for non-12": https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Ultrasonic-Cleaner-Cleaning-Machine-300042)-x/dp/B079PJ8KWW/ref=sr_1_5?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1544261648&sr=1-5&keywords=record+cleaner+Ultrasonic

I suspect you could find similar with your own searches. Personally I pay no attention to non-12" but there may be a reasonable demand for cleaners of them.

Do you have a big collection of non-12"?
Hi Tima,

Thanks for the info!

I have a fair collection of high quality 10” LPs so very much worth it.
 
Likes: bonzo75
Mar 20, 2019
1
0
1
63
#23
Greetings vinyl enthusiasts. Mike Fremer suggested that we do not or I not reply to many of the audiophile sites as even proper information provided in response sees more comments geberated. I suggest you review the new KirmussAudio web site at www.kirmussaudio.com and review especially the Q&A section. It will clarify matters for everyone. Keep those records spinning!
 
#24
Well this is my first post here, but hopefully my feedback/experience can be of some assistance for those of you considering the Kirmuss machine. Depending on the subject, I often don't post on forums as I find alot of uninformed people making huge statements who then attack you when you politely question their logic or often a different opinion based on experience. But this website seems to have more respectful and informed conversation.

What I can say is DO NOT BUY a Kirmuss if you want to clean more than a couple of records in a session. I was looking for an economical path to cleaning records, and I wasn't sure whether I was going to continue down the path of collecting records and improving my TT and phono stage. The Kirmuss Audio machine looked like it was a good economical stop gap solution. BUT MAKE SURE YOU READ TO THE END of my comments for the seriously bad part.

What I found when I unpacked the machine was a machine with chintzy graphics (which doesnt mean the machine doesnt work well, but is often a sign of amatuer or no real product design - I actually have some experience in product design), an Ultra Sonic machine that can be bought cheaply online (there are many variations of this machine that can be bought on Chinese trading sites like Alibaba), and an adapter that sits on the machine, made of plastic, to allow you to load your records into. Also sundry cleaning brushes, liquids and cloths etc

2 things to note

1. The machine is meant to be based on an existing machine but adjusted internally/the frequency/the software to their specifications. I cannot comment on this as it goes beyond my understanding and capabilities, I didnt take the machine apart, and didnt have a non-kirmuss branded version of the machine to compare to
2. The adapter is meant to be their patented system that suspends records is made of plastic with some plastic cogs and a belt - it is junk, potentially damages your records, and this in not beyond my abilities to understand - I will go into this shortly, but I'll call it a 'record rotating device'.

It has been some time ago that I bought the machine and promptly returned it, so I dont remember all of the specifics about cleaning with the machine but several things caught my attention and my concern...

You are meant to dry the records with a microfibre cloth!!! What a way to add dust back onto the records surface, and I have to laugh at the way they say other machines/ways of drying the records surface adds dust to the the record.

The make bold claims, and say custom this, and custom that, which may be the case, but in reality its just a collection of things (ie brushes, cloths, Ultrasonic machine) that you can buy online (customised machine, if true, not witstanding, customised liquids, and their record rotating device), they've added a bit of fairy dust and hype, and bam, you have a 'record cleaning system'!

Best thorough review I have found of the Kirmuss machine/system is here:
https://theaudiophileman.com/kirmuss-ka-rc-1-ultrasonic-review-part1/

I generally agree with the comments made by Paul Rigby in his follow on and much more thorough review online, except that I didnt have the results that he had.

But his comments is basically how I feel about this supposed 'system':

"I wasn’t the only person there who felt like he had just faced a guy who was selling a potion off the back of a wagon that was guaranteed to give long life, enhance my attractiveness to the opposite sex and cure my dodgy knee…and all I had to do is pay him some money for the privilege. This market stall-approach to promotion was and is not the norm in the hi-fi industry. And not in a good way."

"The options I mentioned are all described in the accompanying 8-sided, A5 manual, replete with illustrations.
The problem with this? The manual is a mess. It’s poorly planned and laid out, it’s confusing, grammar is a secondary concern and there is no sense of guiding the user through a graduated process of education."

"Yes, the early parts of the manual have a semblance of order but that quickly degenerates into a confusing mixture of vinyl and record format history plus How To… instructions spread over the manual and various paper supplements."

"The website retains this haphazard style with a lack of design thought, spelling mistakes and grammatical issues plus the insertion of massive blocks of confusing white space positioned in the centre of each page."

"Hence, the overall impression from the public demo routine, the manual and the website is not a good one. They give the impression that you’ve just walked into amateur night."

And that sums up how I felt about the whole Kirmuss system.

But worse still - and YMMV, my records didnt really sound dramatically better. A little less noise maybe, but I sat there scratching my head the first record or two I put through the machine and process.

So I kept it up for a few more records after the first few records cleaned - so you need to understand that the machine WAS NOT running non stop. I cleaned maybe 4 or 5 records AT THE MOST.

What happens is that when you have the ultrasonic machine running, it heats the water. Eventually the water climbs above 30 degrees celsius and keeps climbing, and can get closer to 40 degrees celsius (this happens with my current ultrasonic machine, so I have to stop and wait quite a long time for the water to cool down). When the water starts getting closer to 35 degrees and above records can start to warp slightly, and when they do they the run up over the wheels in the 'record rotating device' that support the record in the bath and turn them. When that happens the record is no longer centered in the slot in the top of the 'patented system that suspends records' and your records being forced to turn by the outside of the wheel, and start rubbing with some force against the edge of the slot that it sits in. This edge is hard edged plastic. SO the record is now being 'forced' to turn by the outside of the wheel it is meant to sit in (pressure is being exerted on it), and is rubbing continuously up against the hard and square edge of the slot that the record sits in, potentially damaging the record irrevocably. I didnt see any obvious scratching but I was shocked!

During the process I'd left the room the machine was in because I didn't want to damage my hearing with the ultrasonic machine, which is actually very dangerous to your hearing (do your research). When I returned I found this happening. I repeated the process with an old record I didnt want and the same thing happened - record started to warp, rolled out of the groove in the wheel /s its meant to sit in and started rubbing against the hard plastic. I then went and had a look at the records I cleaned, and sure enough there was a slight warp in one of the records that they didnt have before. I shut down the machine cleaned it up, put it back in the packaging to return the next day.

As I said earlier, I didnt get the earth shattering improvement I was expecting with the records I had cleaned. YMMV

I also feel that the whole thing is a well intentioned but half baked product, with little to no product design and testing done in its development, and comes off as an amateur concept - amateur in design, delivery and implementation. Good product design and testing would've picked up this problem straight away. This machine is prone to doing what I described due to its design. There is no warning in the instructions that you should do only 2 or 3 records and then shut down the machine for an hour or two for the water to cool down. BTW I live in a mild climate, and the temperature was in the teens celcius, so not ward at all.

I am astounded that this problem has not come up in any reviews. I was able to replicate the problem immediately - straight after discovering what had happened I put into the machine a record I had in my collection that I didnt want, and the same thing happened. I did this to make sure I wasn't imagining things, as I really wanted this to be my record cleaning solution. But I guess that none of the reviewers do more than one or two records, and then let the machine sit. If you were to use the machine for more than half an hour you'd very quickly experience this problem.

I now have a 3 step process.
1. Run my record through a Knosti Disco Antistat, turning 10 revolutions in each direction, then sit them up in the record stack holder to dry
2. Once mostly dry put 2 records in my ultrasonic bath using a Vinyl Stack Ultrasonic to suspend and rotate my records, with a small amount of Isopropyl alcohol and Ilford Ilfotol in demineralised water
3. Use a vacuum machine as a final pass - I use an eyedropper to put a generous amount of Melody Mate Vinyl Cleaning Solution on the record, spread it evenly with a brush, making sure I've worked the fluid in and let the record 'soak' for say 60 seconds, and then vacuum dry

My records have never been cleaner - I've resurrected really old records and they sound like new, pops and crackles have mostly disappeared from my records, and the noise floor has dropped dramatically. The process is a pain in the behind, takes forever, and I can still warp my records if I don't watch the temperature on the ultrasonic machine and run it too long, but no risk of damaging or scratching my record in a plastic slot.

Again I say, if you only run 2 or 3 records through the machine and then stop, ok you may not have this problem. It may also work - ie reduce noise and clean your record. But be warned and watch out if you dont sit your record properly or it works its way out of the guid wheels in your Kirmuss machine.
 
Last edited:

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 4, 2014
1,689
1,180
230
the Upper Midwest
#25
3. Use a vacuum machine as a final pass - I use an eyedropper to put a generous amount of Melody Mate Vinyl Cleaning Solution on the record, spread it evenly with a brush, making sure I've worked the fluid in and let the record 'soak' for say 60 seconds, and then vacuum dry
Thanks for your post - interesting commentary on the Kirmuss RCM.

What vacuum machine do you use?

I was with you on your step #2. I too use water+IPA+Ilfotol as the cleaning solution in my setup. I'm unclear about why you do step #3. I looked at the Melody Mate Web site which describes their solution thus:
Melody Mate comprises of lab grade IPA, our own specifically designed surfactant and distilled water.
Who knows what their surfactant is. It seems like using Melody Mate is redundant with your step #2. Could you say a bit more?
 

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