Introducing Olympus & Olympus I/O - A new perspective on modern music playback

[joet]

For anyone considering using a NAS in conjunction with their Olympus, I just finished installing a Synology DS124 with a 4TB SSD and a Ghent DC cable to connect to the DCD. The whole setup, including cable and SSD, cost about $400 and it is silent. I.e., I can't hear a sound. Note, the 124 is a single bay NAS, so it's just a source. I have backups elsewhere. Frankly, I don't know if I'll hear an improvement using a NAS with Olympus, but, for me, it's more convenient and cost effective. Plus it'll be nice to experiment and compare.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Hi Emile, I'm excited to see the Olympus status updates, thank you. Also, you can include me on the list of very satisfied users who has put their trust in Taiko and has been impressed by the care you show and value you provide. Im posting because I have a feature request I hope you can put on the list. While I'm a little sheepish mentioning it now, considering all that is going on, I fear that there will never be a good time. Have you considered, or is it possible, to include a phase control somewhere in the chain? Be it the server or one of the daughter cards, e.g., the analog out? I've been told that up to 30% of recordings are out of phase. Generally, I've found this functionality on DACs, although presumably some servers and preamps might have it. My current DAC can control phase via a remote, and I can attest to the impact it has. Given that Taiko is increasingly becoming a comprehensive source component, there will be less opportunity for users to add this functionality. Thanks again, and I look forward to Olympus.

That’s actually already on the list! A much desired function for me personally!

 

[Taiko Audio]

@Kris , working now!

 

[cat6man]

The Extreme is here to stay and will get a lot better, I'm under a gag order by an overwhelmed support team, but once we're through the Olympus launch, you can expect some mayor updates coming up for the Extreme!

wonderful, that is exactly what we (those of us not able to climb the heights to Olympus) needed to hear. trickle down improvements, extracted from the experiments that led to the Olympus, should hold great promise for we Extreme users and our experience here over the past years gives the Taiko team great credibility that they will continue to deliver SQ improvements.

so while the extreme+IO is 200% and the olympus is 300%, i'm looking forward to the 180% improvements to come on the extreme.

 

[Tuckia]

wonderful, that is exactly what we (those of us not able to climb the heights to Olympus) needed to hear. trickle down improvements, extracted from the experiments that led to the Olympus, should hold great promise for we Extreme users and our experience here over the past years gives the Taiko team great credibility that they will continue to deliver SQ improvements.

so while the extreme+IO is 200% and the olympus is 300%, i'm looking forward to the 180% improvements to come on the extreme.

What is the source of this 180% improvement data point?

 

[Ground Control]

You are so far off base here. Yes, many of us are quite fortunate to be able to play around in this league. That doesn't mean we have unlimited funds to do as we please. However, it appears you don't understand how passionate most of us are regarding this obsession. Nor do you understand the faithfulness we all share with Emile and Taiko...Furthermore you don't have any skin in this game, easy to comment from the sidelines...

 

[Ground Control]

I understand where you’re coming from, however the post was made only in response to a challenge made by ctydwn, who was offering to take open bets after reading my earlier remarks, “This is going to turn out real good or real bad”.

That post of mine could not have been more benign. Any spin that you or anyone make stems only from within you own mind.

Regarding the follow-up post I made, well I wasn’t too far off even by your own admission.
“many of us are quite fortunate to be able to play around in this league. That doesn't mean we have unlimited funds to do as we please”.

This sentence alone validates every word that I said in my post from beginning to end.

Look…..I’m not anyone’s enemy here. I have been just as much, and more, a part of this as the rest, and I do have (plenty) skin in the game. I recently retired, sold my home in upscale NY suburb, sold all my (MEGA) Uber audio gear, moved new home to New England.

Now proud owner of Magnepan 3.7i, Benchmark AHB2 amp, (2 channel) Lyngdorf MP-50 pre, JVC projector, Classe 5 channel amp, Bel Canto 4 channel amp.

Still have “leftover” Tripoint grounding Troy’s (several), couple Taiko Tanza shelves and grounding gizmos, Stage 3/Aquest power cables. Using home brew nuc with Euphony software, a few Sablon Ethernet cables, couple quality PSU, soTm stuff, blah, blah blah.

Slam me all you want.
It’s the F’n room!, speaker location and AC power quality.

NEVER listened to as much music as I am now.
Three words to be cautious of…
“Passionate”, “obsession”, “faithfulness” (in this context)

 

[cat6man]

What is the source of this 180% improvement data point?

first i assumed that the 200 and 300% numbers for the IO and olympus will be further increased in the future as those products evolve.
second, i picked 180% as a target that i'd like to see for the extreme.

 

[Tuckia]

That would be a pretty remarkable leap in performance if possible. Especially considering the cost, or lack of cost, to the end user.

Emile, the last of us stragglers finally ordered the Olympus, it’s safe to reveal your Extreme secrets now. Maybe I’ll be able to hear these improvements before I receive the O?

 

[Moladiego]

That would be a pretty remarkable leap in performance if possible. Especially considering the cost, or lack of cost, to the end user.

Emile, the last of us stragglers finally ordered the Olympus, it’s safe to reveal your Extreme secrets now. Maybe I’ll be able to hear these improvements before I receive the O?

Obviously, I cannot speak for Emile, but I am afraid that the hoped-for-200% improvement leap is wishful thinking based on my own experience (limited as it is). The USB (or any other traditional, converted and filtered, digital connection) is fundamentally flawed. No matter what one does to USB to improve the SQ, and Taiko has done mightily with its Router, Switch, DCD, XDMS/NSM), such improvements are "band-aid" fixes (as Emile admitted in his posting last week or so). I know from my own experience. As mentioned earlier, I had a 15-year-old Blu-ray DVD player (Pioneer Elite) modded by a DYI guy in a "purist" way (4 RCA jacks out representing the 4 i2s signals gathered directly from the DVD's circuit board), "direct coupling" with the output jacks (bypassing all transformers and capacitors etc. in their signal paths, but with the right voltage treatment etc.). With this modded DVD transport connected to a similarly modded DAC via 4 ribbon cables (each with its own ground ribbon, with the right resistor network built in in each signal cable to reflect the maximum optimal impedance for the specific i2 signal, which vary widely among the 4 signals), the SQ from the lowly DVD transport (which was helped further with the replacement of its stock oscillator clock with a much better one and which otherwise has a much inferior power supply and spins video discs, creating much noise and jitter in the process) is more natural (more immediate, less veiled, more airy and more "live" music sounding), dare I say, than the 15x or so more expensive Extreme (with Switch) via the USB connection. For instance, the SQ of the video disc of this Mahler Symphony No. 3 sounds significantly more natural via the DVD/i2s link than the audio album ripped from the DVD disc via Extreme/USB. Isn't this remarkable? (BTW, the i2s connection here is not the much inferior PS Audio HDMI/RJ45 standard, which involves layers of conversion from SE to balanced and back to SE and filtering.) This shows the huge limitations of USB connection. You may currently like the Extreme/USB connection sound (wonder how Olympus can be 2x better) until you have heard what a "purist" connection can yield in SQ. Compared to the "purist" i2s connection between the DVD transport and the DAC, the Extreme via USB connection sounds obviously more "veiled". Once you have heard the purer sound, you gain a new perspective on SQ. If my DIY were able to mod the Extremely in a similar way, I may have opted to stay with Extreme, but unfortunately, he is not able to because there are no individual i2s signals present in the Extreme's circuit board (unlike the DVD's); Olympus breaks out the "bundled" audio signal into the individual i2s signals, I believe. There is reason to believe that Olympus would be more thorough-going and comprehensive than the limited mod to my DVD player in its purist i2s (called XDMI) treatment. @Taiko Audio Please correct me if I am wrong here (surely I don't know most of the tech and what you have accomplished). I suspect that the digital cable for Olympus and a Lampizator DAC consists of the 4 i2s signals (master clock, bit clock, word clock and data) + a dedicated shared ground for the 4 signals (that's what the 5 pins represent, I surmise). Only i2s signals are unconverted (and unfiltered if done in a purist way).

 

[John T]

I understand where you’re coming from, however the post was made only in response to a challenge made by ctydwn, who was offering to take open bets after reading my earlier remarks, “This is going to turn out real good or real bad”.

That post of mine could not have been more benign. Any spin that you or anyone make stems only from within you own mind.

Regarding the follow-up post I made, well I wasn’t too far off even by your own admission.
“many of us are quite fortunate to be able to play around in this league. That doesn't mean we have unlimited funds to do as we please”.

This sentence alone validates every word that I said in my post from beginning to end.

Look…..I’m not anyone’s enemy here. I have been just as much, and more, a part of this as the rest, and I do have (plenty) skin in the game. I recently retired, sold my home in upscale NY suburb, sold all my (MEGA) Uber audio gear, moved new home to New England.

Now proud owner of Magnepan 3.7i, Benchmark AHB2 amp, (2 channel) Lyngdorf MP-50 pre, JVC projector, Classe 5 channel amp, Bel Canto 4 channel amp.

Still have “leftover” Tripoint grounding Troy’s (several), couple Taiko Tanza shelves and grounding gizmos, Stage 3/Aquest power cables. Using home brew nuc with Euphony software, a few Sablon Ethernet cables, couple quality PSU, soTm stuff, blah, blah blah.

Slam me all you want.
It’s the F’n room!, speaker location and AC power quality.

NEVER listened to as much music as I am now.
Three words to be cautious of…
“Passionate”, “obsession”, “faithfulness” (in this context)

I think the remark of putting a "check in the loss column" and going on to something else, is what really caught my attention. The cavalier, dismissive way you grouped us all under the same umbrella. I'll certainly be more cautious in the future in using those three words, (Passionate, Obsession, Faithfulness) regarding audio, wine, art, music, literature, or anything that stirs the prod of life that creates interest.

Validation is way overrated man. As of late many of us have a lot going on with our systems, several working parts. Lots of coordination. We all get a little touchy when things like this are happening, along with the money aspect. Hence the touchiness

I sincerely wish you a happy, healthy, retirement, enjoy...

 

[Moladiego]

I think the remark of putting a "check in the loss column" and going on to something else, is what really caught my attention. The cavalier, dismissive way you grouped us all under the same umbrella. I'll certainly be more cautious in the future in using those three words, (Passionate, Obsession, Faithfulness) regarding audio, wine, art, music, literature, or anything that stirs the prod of life that creates interest.

Validation is way overrated man. As of late many of us have a lot going on with our systems, several working parts. Lots of coordination. We all get a little touchy when things like this are happening, along with the money aspect. Hence the touchiness

I sincerely wish you a happy, healthy, retirement, enjoy...

I struggled to upgrade to Olympus because the modded DVD player (done in the "purist" way described above) gave me an inkling of what Olympus may bring, which should be more thorough-going and comprehensive i2s (XDMI) treatment (including battery power). It was a decision not made lightly (especially I got the Extreme only 2 years ago). It was based on my newly gained SQ experience - and expectoration - thanks to the purist i2s mod to the "lowly" DVD transport.

 

[Kris]

Regarding the I/O interface, I mentioned there are different types of QFSP interfaces, we did end up going for the QFSP-DD variant, which has a 400Gb maximum bandwidth, although that appears to be gross overkill, and perhaps unnecessarily expensive, it did end up sounding better. @Kris , yes I’d rate the I/O a bit higher then before using this particular interface, now at 15% in stead of 10%

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In regards to this QFSP cable is that Amphenol?
Different lengths or any specific that is recommended?
I understand you tried different brands to pick the best for this application?
OR you advice us to still try and experiment with cables designed for military server solutions?

 

[Taiko Audio]

In regards to this QFSP cable is that Amphenol?
Different lengths or any specific that is recommended?
I understand you tried different brands to pick the best for this application?
OR you advice us to still try and experiment with cables designed for military server solutions?

We’ll supply them, and yes the cable itself has an impact, something unavoidable in high-end audio “unfortunately”.

 

[Kris]

We’ll supply them, and yes the cable itself has an impact, something unavoidable in high-end audio “unfortunately”.

Thank you!
I am asking as this will not be as cheap as a standard 35 Euro DAC cable for Extreme.
( I have 15 of them to make sure I get the best SQ in my system).
This is more like 200 + Euro per QFSP cable
So certainly I will not be able to try 15 of them.
We all will probably use what you will pick as a best sounding option.
Hope to get Your advice when the time comes.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Thank you!
I am asking as this will not be as cheap as a standard 35 Euro DAC cable for Extreme.
( I have 15 of them to make sure I get the best SQ in my system).
This is more like 200 + Euro per QFSP cable
So certainly I will not be able to try 15 of them.
We all will probably use what you will pick as a best sounding option.
Hope to get Your advice when the time comes.

No these are much more costly, ranging from about Euro 200 to Euro 2000. Shocking prices for non audiophile cabling isn’t it But the advantages are undeniable so here we are.

 

[Taiko Audio]

it’s safe to reveal your Extreme secrets now. Maybe I’ll be able to hear these improvements before I receive the O?

I’m afraid not, we’re aiming at the Extreme’s 6th year anniversary, the very first production level Extreme was completed on 12/17/2018, which is still my own personal Extreme

 

[Kris]

No these are much more costly, ranging from about Euro 200 to Euro 2000. Shocking prices for non audiophile cabling isn’t it But the advantages are undeniable so here we are.

That's why I posted 200 + as I could not believe that prices go upto 2k Euro.
That also means about 40 of us who ordered Olympus with IO will get quite expensive cables (2) as a package.
IO is becoming much cheaper in that perspective.

Good luck selecting the very best sounding option cables

 

[cat6man]

Obviously, I cannot speak for Emile, but I am afraid that the hoped-for-200% improvement leap is wishful thinking based on my own experience (limited as it is). The USB (or any other traditional, converted and filtered, digital connection) is fundamentally flawed. No matter what one does to USB to improve the SQ, and Taiko has done mightily with its Router, Switch, DCD, XDMS/NSM), such improvements are "band-aid" fixes (as Emile admitted in his posting last week or so).

I also cannot speak for Emile but I would hope for both sw (no cost) and hw (with appropriate costs).
Since the USB is limiting, i think a replacement card with alternative outputs could get some of that IO goodness into the extreme. I agree that 200% is wishful thinking if you only consider sw, but why limit our options here

Note: I have ZERO inside information but getting rid of USB seems like a appealing path forward to me. Of course, YMMV.

Now back to your regular Olympus topics

 

[MusicFellow]

I also cannot speak for Emile but I would hope for both sw (no cost) and hw (with appropriate costs).
Since the USB is limiting, i think a replacement card with alternative outputs could get some of that IO goodness into the extreme. I agree that 200% is wishful thinking if you only consider sw, but why limit our options here

Note: I have ZERO inside information but getting rid of USB seems like a appealing path forward to me. Of course, YMMV.

Now back to your regular Olympus topics

Yeah, I also feel from Emile‘s posts and adding to that the findings from Mola‘s experiments that the new XDMI Interface is the biggest contributing factor to the sonic leap of the Olympus over the Extreme - Eg bigger than even the BPS (vs an Extreme connected to a proper power distributor and a first class power cord). Sooo since the BPS is not possible in the Extreme, maybe a none USB connection is…
We‘ll find out when Emile‘s allowed to talk again. So let‘s get out those Olympus orders first, haha….