I should, but I need to hear stuff in my system too.
Introducing Olympus & Olympus I/O - A new perspective on modern music playback
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I should, but I need to hear stuff in my system too.
Great to see things moving so quickly.
Of course, as an early Horizon user/adopter I do wince at the 4,600 euro (plus 2,000 euro nicer cable upgrade) while a new Horizon will simply include these costs and 'simply' cost the original 46k euro (aside from cable). Ouch (assuming I read the 10% charge correctly, hopefully includes shipping both ways?....)
BUT, I get there is plenty of work involved for this retrofit, this is a business etc and I won't hesitate to upgrade as I am already deeply invested into the Horizon as my DAC and preamp for the foreseeable future and fully believe in the Taiko Lampizator Olympus partnership.
I think one perspective that will assist with all this is how much better does the Horizon sound with native XDMI than the Olympus DAC XDMI direct? I do not believe this has been posted yet.
Just sharing my initial reaction. fwiw
Of course, as an early Horizon user/adopter I do wince at the 4,600 euro (plus 2,000 euro nicer cable upgrade) while a new Horizon will simply include these costs and 'simply' cost the original 46k euro (aside from cable). Ouch (assuming I read the 10% charge correctly, hopefully includes shipping both ways?....)
BUT, I get there is plenty of work involved for this retrofit, this is a business etc and I won't hesitate to upgrade as I am already deeply invested into the Horizon as my DAC and preamp for the foreseeable future and fully believe in the Taiko Lampizator Olympus partnership.
I think one perspective that will assist with all this is how much better does the Horizon sound with native XDMI than the Olympus DAC XDMI direct? I do not believe this has been posted yet.
Just sharing my initial reaction. fwiw
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Steve Williams
Site Founder, Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Didn't Emile mention that the connection between Olympus and Horizon is QFSP?
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Introducing Olympus & Olympus I/O - A new perspective on modern music playback
Factory check / refresh and back into the wild! If you're interested in one you can reach out to us. Any idea on pricing of those? Interested indeed!
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25% if compared to the Taiko Extreme.
If compared to Olympus XDMI its an estimated 9,09% improvement (300%/275% - 1):
"Olympus with XDMI mounted: 275%
Olympus with Olympus I/O with XDMI mounted: 300%"
However, I would like to hear it in order to decide if this 9,09% improvement is worth 21200 Euros plus the cost of an extra power cable
You guys are doing the equivalent of adding whole numbers and rounding to 4 decimals places.
I have no clue about the impact of such percent changes. This is the reason I want to hear the two options directly to form my own opinion and decide what to do.
Steve Williams
Site Founder, Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Steve, thank you. I would like to go, but since I don't have a date yet, I can't be sure if I can. This is why I asked for Munich, which I already have tickets and hotel.
This is the big question for Horizon owners that remains un-answered. Hopefully, the public testing/listening at Steve’s will be revealing as to the current state of the tech and choices available.
As an Aries Cerat dac/pre amp user, i’m very curious to see what Stavros comes up with. On the one hand I hope his solution hits it out of the park. On the other hand, I’d be awfully pleased if the solitary Oly dac straight to the Ageto Pre is too good to beat.
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What‘s more disconcerting is that since we‘re at such an early stage of development with little time for experiment, that these price points likely have zero relationship to anything other than brand recognition and prestige.
Maybe it hasn’t yet sunk in how XDMI is on the actual cutting edge of audio innovation. If it’s cheap cables you are looking for, this particular interface at this particular time is not the place to find them. Frankly, I am not disconcerted in the slightest by these prices. If I understand correctly, the digital link in question is a premium dual 5-pin XLR cable, not exactly an off-the-shelf item from your neighborhood AV shop, so if it’s going to cost more than an average AES/EBU or HDMI cable, it’s hardly surprising. And should we not factor in the approximately two years of relentless research into this ground-breaking interface by Taiko, with several hours a day of iterative testing and intensive listening? This cable will be a relatively low volume sales item, at least initially, so I don’t think it is reasonable to expect off-the-shelf prices. If we want major steps forward in music reproduction, we have to be prepared to make it worthwhile for the innovators, in my opinion. If you really want to be disconcerted, have a look at the price of the WADAX optical cable. Otherwise, if you come back in, say, two or three years, my guess is there’ll be more bargains to be had in XDMI cables.
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Maybe you failed to see this or decided to leave it out:
“If you pay for the retrofit job - which cost 10% of the MSRP of the DAC - the Lampizator cable is free with the upgrade and the KBL cable is 2000 Euro extra.”
I am not sure if they would calculate it the way you do it.
This would not make sense to ask 20 k for 9% you are referring to.
Switch for 2500 did that kind of improvement.
I believe they checked just the difference Olympus xdmi v Olympus + Olympus IO xdmi
I was in PM contact with Emile an I believe he confirmed 25% difference between those two.
If I misunderstood I am sure he will correct me.
If one reads the quoted improvement percentage language literally, VPN's rather than Kris' interpretation appears to be a bit more logical: 275% (Olympus) and 300% (+ I/O) XDMI improvement compared to Extreme's 100% (USB) logically (in terms of semantics) does not read 25% improvement of I/O over Olympus. It may be, but the way it was phrased does not entail it. Emile has not stated in writing on a public forum (not to my knowledge) that I/O addition would result in 25% improvement over Olympus. (He wrote that it was very difficult to compare XDMI with USB presumably because of the very different sound signatures.) Would love to hear from the "horse's mouth." I doubt either guy's math is "accurate" and suspect the "truth" is somewhere in between 9% and 25%. The percentages were mere estimates, quite subjective, somewhat "wild" and not readily verifiable. SQ is more often than not or mostly in the ears of the listener. I tried to estimate each of my component's contribution to the system's SQ but did not have much faith in my own estimates (even though I am intimately familiar with the system). It is always subjective whether an upgrade is worth the cost (there are people spending $100K just to get 5%-10% SQ improvement). For my Horizon, as an example, the costs of using a set of new tubes were similar to the cost of having the Router, but the new tubes have transformed my Horizon (resulting in vastly improved transparency, naturalness and dynamics) - I have not heard it in its full glory until recently. If you think you know the sound of the Horizon with stock tubes, you owe yourself to listen to the "new" Horizon with the kind of NOS tubes discussed on the Horizon tube rolling forum since last June. $7K or so (roughly including the T&P adapters) cost in my case is very worthwhile in my experience (in consideration of the 46K euro retail price with stock tubes, $7K tube upgrade resulting in roughly 50% jump in Horizon's SQ is definitely worthwhile), again subjective (to my ears and in my system; some did not find such tubes working for them). Cannot wait if my retubed Horizon reaches Mount Olympus with the native XDMI connection with Olympus, at the cost of roughly $40K+ (with Extreme trade-in, not including the I/O). Worth it? Only time can tell and even so the view would be personal. One has to be tempered by the realization that the metaphoric Mount Olympus is a path or journey rather than a destination of sonic nirvana; there will be another yonder mount to reach, a realm without end as is the universe.
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Christiaan Punter
Well-Known Member
While performance differences measured in relative percentages provide a practical means to illustrate the improvements to expect, as MolaDiego mentions, they are not mathematically verifiable. Indeed, they are subjective estimates that provide a handle on the value of relative differences that are otherwise difficult to bring across. As we move forward in time and more options and upgrades are released, comparing earlier percentages to later ones becomes ever more abstract. The wheels are moving very quickly at Taiko HQ! Although Emile is admittedly very good at providing relative percentages, I would recommend using them only as a rough guide, not as gospel
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