Introducing Olympus & Olympus I/O - A new perspective on modern music playback

[oldmustang]

I'm one of those retirement age plus audiophiles but my strong hope is that XDMI/direct analog is good enough that I can enjoy my music and move some of the (heavy!) boxes to some else's home after I compare Olympus/XDMI/direct analog to my current dCS Vivaldi APEX DAC/Upsampler/Clock and external master clock.

If not, then the DAC stays and I (im)patiently wait for an XDMI daughter card with dual AES/EBU outputs, as well as further developments of the XDMI direct analogue daughter card (balanced outputs, further refinements to the direct analog's analog stage, and whatever else Emile and his design team pull out of their hats). Given dCS generally conservative speed in introducing new innovations I'm not sure I'll ever hear music from an end-to-end XDMI digital pipeline into a dCS DAC, but never say never.

I am further encouraged that Taiko development is planned to be ongoing on both digital and analog XDMI and not just a one and done effort. Much as I love my big system I foresee there will be a time when the rest of those big boxes will have to go. So I am very happy to read about the possibilities for headphone listening, further digital expansion, and in general doing more with one or two boxes rather than having to worship music at a shrine to audiophilia that takes up one end of a large room.

My wife is looking forward to that day, sooner rather than later. . .

Steve Z

 

[Kingsrule]

XDMI to MSB Pro iSL is what I'm really looking forward to.
Native with all resolutions is pretty important to me.
I just hope MSB is all in here and not an outlier....

 

[DW101]

"You had mentioned that down sampling the larger files and DSD sounds better." Post 442.

This is interesting, I missed that nugget.

I currently use a Chord DAVE, and having 'come up' through that route, a lot of PGGB wav files. Undoubtedly to my ears the 16x sample rate, very large, pre-processed PGGB files sounded better than lower sample rates. I don't use DSD.

Recently however, and especially with the advent of NSM, I had a nagging perception that Red Book files sounded just as good if not better. I did a fairly quick comparison the other day and felt that the difference was now edging in favour of Red Book.

I am (literally) guessing that the lower noise floors @Taiko Audio has now achieved are shifting the balance, with there being more noise from the higher sample rates of data been shuffled round? It could of course be to do with some aspect of the PGGB upsampling algorithms / process now being revealed.

I was holding off for what we now know as the recent Olympus announcement, and subsequently have now decided to upgrade my DAC to an MSB Select Dac II, to be used with an Olympus + XDMI > MSB Pro ISL interface. (Many years-worth of Merry Christmases and Happy Birthdays to me, from me...)

I'm speculating that the difference will likely become more marked with Olympus and XMDI, but I won't be deleting my PGGB files just yet just in case.

Whatever happens, I am currently super-happy listening to Red Book PCM only via NSM, enjoying the sound quality, the short 'beats' between tracks and ability to play longer files - I'm now even able to listen to my Can collection again

 

[John T]

Fortunately we have some WBF members with "Extremely" deep pockets. They will be the pioneer's that set the course forward for many of us. I understand the allure to simplify. Many Horizon owners have a tidy sum invested in tubes alone. As much as simplification may be an attraction, the potential of realignment in many areas is unsettling...

 

[simorag]

I'm one of those retirement age plus audiophiles but my strong hope is that XDMI/direct analog is good enough that I can enjoy my music and move some of the (heavy!) boxes to some else's home after I compare Olympus/XDMI/direct analog to my current dCS Vivaldi APEX DAC/Upsampler/Clock and external master clock.

If not, then the DAC stays and I (im)patiently wait for an XDMI daughter card with dual AES/EBU outputs, as well as further developments of the XDMI direct analogue daughter card (balanced outputs, further refinements to the direct analog's analog stage, and whatever else Emile and his design team pull out of their hats). Given dCS generally conservative speed in introducing new innovations I'm not sure I'll ever hear music from an end-to-end XDMI digital pipeline into a dCS DAC, but never say never.

I am further encouraged that Taiko development is planned to be ongoing on both digital and analog XDMI and not just a one and done effort. Much as I love my big system I foresee there will be a time when the rest of those big boxes will have to go. So I am very happy to read about the possibilities for headphone listening, further digital expansion, and in general doing more with one or two boxes rather than having to worship music at a shrine to audiophilia that takes up one end of a large room.

My wife is looking forward to that day, sooner rather than later. . .

Steve Z

Word-by-word my thinking Steve (just replace Vivaldi with Rossini and lower the bar of XDMI analog out vs. USB to DAC accordingly).

Given how quick is dCS to implement revolutions like this, likely both Vivaldi and Rossini will have gone out of production by when a viable "direct" digital receiver will be available.

In my case I am attracted by replacing both Extreme and DAC with Olympus with XDMI analog output merely by budget constraints, as selling or trading-in my dCS stack would be the only way to afford the Olympus.

I am hoping that the upgrade will be resulting in an overall improvement of sound quality since day one. However, being the current DAC board based on Rohm chips the first attempt from Taiko at this product, it is clear that in the longer run there will be room for further improvement on both XDMI > analog (better DAC section, addition of headphones out, etc.) and XDMI > digital (overcoming AES / SPDIF limitations).

For that purpose I'd like to be know more by @Taiko Audio about the roll-out of such future upgrades, e.g.
- will they be available as a swap-out / swap-in replacement?
- if we get the XDMI with analog out today and decide to switch to an XDMI module with digital out in the future, what would be the approach for determining the cost of the "upgrade"?

I realize this kind of questions are premature, as we don't even have the first release of the product in the wild yet, but for how the system is presented by Taiko themselves (i.e. XDMI as an evolutionary platform) and given the price of admission to the Olympus lineup, I believe it is relevant for potential customers - at least those few with "finite" budget - to know what is the policy for the management, both technical and commercial, of such evolutions.

Edit: I write this also considering that I was hoping for a more gradual investment path for upgrading the Extreme (add TACDA or TACDD, then add a BPS) when I got it only 1.5yr ago, whereas things have evolved to a point where any hardware upgrade of the Extreme now costs as the Extreme itself

 

[John T]

Word-by-word my thinking Steve (just replace Vivaldi with Rossini and lower the bar of XDMI analog out vs. USB to DAC accordingly).

Given how quick is dCS to implement revolutions like this, likely both Vivaldi and Rossini will have gone out of production by when a viable "direct" digital receiver will be available.

In my case I am attracted by replacing both Extreme and DAC with Olympus with XDMI analog output merely by budget constraints, as selling or trading-in my dCS stack would be the only way to affort the Olympus.

I am hoping that the upgrade will be resulting in an overall improvement of sound quality since day one. However, being the current DAC board based on Rohm chips the first attempt from Taiko at this product, it is clear that in the longer run there will be room for further improvement on both XDMI > analog (better DAC section, addition of headphones out, etc.) and XDMI > digital (overcoming AES / SPDIF limitations).

For that purpose I'd like to be know more by @Taiko Audio about the roll-out of such future upgrades, e.g.
- will they be available as a swap-out / swap-in replacement?
- if we get the XDMI with analog out today and decide to switch to an XDMI module with digital out in the future, what would be the approach for determining the cost of the "upgrade"?

I realize this kind of questions are premature, as we don't even have the first release of the product in the wild yet, but for how the system is presented by Taiko themselves (i.e. XDMI as an evolutionary platform) and given the price of admission to the Olympus lineup, I believe it is relevant for potential customers - at least those few with "finite" budget - to know what is the policy for the management, both technical and commercial, of such evolutions.

Will the DAC chip be FPGA???

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Given how quick is dCS to implement revolutions like this, likely both Vivaldi and Rossini will have gone out of production by when a viable "direct" digital receiver will be available.

In my case I am attracted by replacing both Extreme and DAC with Olympus with XDMI analog output merely by budget constraints, as selling or trading-in my dCS stack would be the only way to affort the Olympus.

dCS will be a very interesting case as they will have all new hardware next year at Wadax pricing (supposedly at or beyond Wadax performance) including integrated server hardware. What will they do for this integration piece? Will they work hard to accommodate their Taiko customers to optimize this new Taiko product?

 

[oldmustang]

Will the DAC chip be FPGA???

No. The current DAC chip is the top model of Rohm, John.

BD34301EKV - Data Sheet, Product Detail | ROHM.com

www.rohm.com

 

[oldmustang]

Will the DAC chip be FPGA???

The FPGAs I am aware of in use by DAC manufacturers — Playback Designs, dCS, Chord — all have appreciable current demands and in the case of Chord, come with significant noise and EMI penalty as employed. So perhaps not the ideal platform for some of the considerations Emile brings to his design goals.

Steve Z

 

[Taiko Audio]

For that purpose I'd like to be know more by @Taiko Audio about the roll-out of such future upgrades, e.g.
- will they be available as a swap-out / swap-in replacement?
- if we get the XDMI with analog out today and decide to switch to an XDMI module with digital out in the future, what would be the approach for determining the cost of the "upgrade"?

Yes you can easily exchange output modules, this is the analogue output module, note this will look different on the PCBs arriving in January of which I can share photos then, the RCA output spacing for example is unusable with larger audiophile interconnects, so it'll have "high-end" rca connectors, and the PCB has been overall redesigned again, but it gives you an idea of what to expect:



These modules are relatively cheap compared to the whole XDMI design, I would not be very worried about how much those are going to cost.

With the initial launch we are supplying BOTH this analogue output module AND a AES/EBU + SPDIF digital module.

 

[simorag]

With the initial launch we are supplying BOTH this analogue output module AND a AES/EBU + SPDIF digital module.

Thanks Emile. Double dumbness check: do I understand it right that the XDMI module installed in the first batch of Olympus (or O. I/O) will be have both analog and digital outputs? That would be great indeed!

 

[Taiko Audio]

Thanks Emile. Double dumbness check: do I understand it right that the XDMI module installed in the first batch of Olympus (or O. I/O) will be have both analog and digital outputs? That would be great indeed!

Semi correct, yes we will supply both analog and digital outputs, but you can only use one at a time. They are however very easy to exchange.

 

[tubes59]

Semi correct, yes we will supply both analog and digital outputs, but you can only use one at a time. They are however very easy to exchange.

Exchange as in swapping a card locally? I had thought the digital and analog outputs were on one card.

 

[oldmustang]

Exchange as in swapping a card locally? I had thought the digital and analog outputs were on one card.

Each is on its own daughter card, which in turn fits on an XDMI mother card. Swap daughter card to swap from analog to digital.

Steve Z

 

[Steve Williams]

Yes you can easily exchange output modules, this is the analogue output module, note this will look different on the PCBs arriving in January of which I can share photos then, the RCA output spacing for example is unusable with larger audiophile interconnects, so it'll have "high-end" rca connectors, and the PCB has been overall redesigned again, but it gives you an idea of what to expect:

View attachment 121826

These modules are relatively cheap compared to the whole XDMI design, I would not be very worried about how much those are going to cost.

With the initial launch we are supplying BOTH this analogue output module AND a AES/EBU + SPDIF digital module.

So when (if at all) Lukasz is able to produce an XDMI interface on his DACS does this mean that the XDMI module on the Olympus will need to be changed

 

[Taiko Audio]

Exchange as in swapping a card locally?

This should help explaining it better:

 

[SwissTom]

@Taiko Audio

Hi Emile,

After reading your reply (#435) and looking at the Olympus prototype chassis images and photos, I can't help thinking that the stackable design is a brilliant idea. It leaves the door open for further additions.

It would be nice if, in addition to the DAC, there was an output stage capable of driving a power amplifier.

Is the addition of a preamp something you've thought about?

Cheers,

Thomas

 

[alwayslearning]

"You had mentioned that down sampling the larger files and DSD sounds better." Post 442.

This is interesting, I missed that nugget.

I currently use a Chord DAVE, and having 'come up' through that route, a lot of PGGB wav files. Undoubtedly to my ears the 16x sample rate, very large, pre-processed PGGB files sounded better than lower sample rates. I don't use DSD.

Recently however, and especially with the advent of NSM, I had a nagging perception that Red Book files sounded just as good if not better. I did a fairly quick comparison the other day and felt that the difference was now edging in favour of Red Book.

I'm one of those Chord DAVE/PGGB users and I will be ordering an Olympus XDMI so you can bet that my 16fs PGGB files will be getting a workout with XDMI and XDMS/NMS. And of course I will be comparing them to non-PGGB files.

I haven't actually asked Taiko to install XDMS yet but that will soon change. So I currently don't have any nagging feelings about PGGB files. They are unambiguously better than the same files in any other format, whether played on my ARC6 DC4 powered Chord DAVE or my dCS Bartok. Much better.

We are entering a brave new world with Olympus XDMI and I am keeping an open mind to all possibilities.

 

[Taiko Audio]

@Taiko Audio

Hi Emile,

After reading your reply and looking at the Olympus prototype chassis images and photos, I can't help thinking that the stackable design is a brilliant idea. It leaves the door open for further additions.

It would be nice if, in addition to the DAC, there was an output stage capable of driving a power amplifier.

Is the addition of a preamp something you've thought about?

Cheers,

Thomas

Hi Thomas,

Yes we have, it's very similar to designing a headphone amplifier module, aka if you design one you already have the other. The main challenge would be how to handle volume control. A more direct approach would be in hardware, over Bluetooth, which would be my preference as I prefer having a physical remote control, but then again a device like that could also drive a software based volume control.

 

[DW101]

I'm one of those Chord DAVE/PGGB users and I will be ordering an Olympus XDMI so you can bet that my 16fs PGGB files will be getting a workout with XDMI and XDMS/NMS. And of course I will be comparing them to non-PGGB files.

I haven't actually asked Taiko to install XDMS yet but that will soon change. So I currently don't have any nagging feelings about PGGB files. They are unambiguously better than the same files in any other format, whether played on my ARC6 DC4 powered Chord DAVE or my dCS Bartok. Much better.

We are entering a brave new world with Olympus XDMI and I am keeping an open mind to all possibilities.

Regardless of file format / sample rate I think you'll be impressed with XDMS / NSM. A brave new world indeed.